Snow Chains and 225/50/17 tyres

[Ryeman]

^^^^your last point is the most logical and is exactly what I intend doing, then I'll have a 'proper' 4WD as opposed to a narcissist version as currently sold to the Victorian unwary.

[Huskoda]

At least you can use snow chains on Yetis. The manual expressly forbids them on my Forester (barely enough room for fingers between tyre and wheel arch on full lock), which means I have the ridiculous situation that if I want to go to the Alps I'd have to take the regular FWD Kia and not the AWD, raised Subaru. Though I have read people use cable chains on them. They may be a good alternative for the Yetis with wider tyres. However, I have had a Haldex driven Octavia and the difference in the systems is very, very noticeable, especially if you put steering on full lock and go. The Octavia definitely scrabbled around a lot more undecided as to where it wanted the power to go, but the Subaru just goes and you can feel the back end wanting to lead. If you do it in the dry (for example pulling out of a tight junction) the rear wheels skip a bit so in that regard the Haldex is smoother.

[Ryeman]

^^^ it's a bit sad when the FWD city version is the logical and straight forward choice.

Having done many hundreds of thousands of kms on mud and snow with the old Dunlop SP 41s (like the first E type had) and having the ability to 'direct' the thrust; the alternative of 'plough steering' with effectively 2 thick rudders weighed down by the engine and pushed by the 'light' end.....no thanks.

Mines perfectly capable in standard trim on a slippery surface without the complication of chains but on fresh snow and a camber with them and no front grip......no thanks.

[CicaYeti]

Summer and winter wheels are identical for australian law? ridicolous law-writers....anyway solve your problem buying a 4*4 yeti and a couple of spider that fit perfectly even on no chainable wheelhttp://www.thule.com/it-it/it/products/snow-chains/snow-chains/suv/thule-k-summit-xl-k55-_-04535755

[Ryeman]

Summer and winter wheels are identical for australian law? ridicolous law-writers....anyway solve your problem buying a 4*4 yeti and a couple of spider that fit perfectly even on no chainable wheelhttp://www.thule.com/it-it/it/products/snow-chains/snow-chains/suv/thule-k-summit-xl-k55-_-04535755

Oops,hit the wrong button.

Basically winter tyre are not something that anyone would waste their time on......maybe a heavier grade tyre for our dry rocky 'tracks'.

I doubt anyone has ever thought their standard 4WD Yeti would need to change them to access OUR ski fields without barstidising the drive system.

It's a particular peculiarity in Victoria due to mandatory fitting when signs signal it.....like Graham said it's more safe to NOT fit them because the alternative is an abomination.

I figure Skoda AU don't know or want to know.

The Passat Alltrack is similar apparently.

[CicaYeti]

Quite, but it isn't rear wheel drive when you start either.

 

And no, it isn't faulty!! My car has now done 96k miles, 93 of them by me. I have driven on lots of surfaces, and probably off-road more than most of the other UK owners here. I have NEVER noticed the rear wheels pushing me from a start, but I have noted the front wheels initially scrabbling a little, and yes it is only a little, but very quickly the Haldex picks it up, all 4 start to grip and you are away (generally). Mind you I have had all 4 wheels spinning at once in very soft mud, but I was still moving, and especially when the Anti-slip started working out which wheel was best to slow down.

I don't agree. haldex is always on work and many sensor placed on the pedal, steer and wheels play role together for improving the torque it has to direct properly. I daily feel the push on the rear suddenly at the move forward on regular road, at the traffic light, more I feel the change of spin load on lateral spin of the car body, the latter is the chief caratteristich of flatness in curves of the yeti comparing to other Ford, toy, renault and nissan!

nearly 5years, 142000 km and good abilità in driving

cheers

[CicaYeti]

Oops,hit the wrong button.

Basically winter tyre are not something that anyone would waste their time on......maybe a heavier grade tyre for our dry rocky 'tracks'.

I doubt anyone has ever thought their standard 4WD Yeti would need to change them to access OUR ski field.

when you buy a car there's everything basically clear on its brochure. Here in Italy every people in winter change the regular summer with winter tyres without complaint......even forester buyer change their silly fourseason with winter approaching the Alps.

[ejstubbs]

Basically winter tyre are not something that anyone would waste their time on......maybe a heavier grade tyre for our dry rocky 'tracks'.

 

Hmm, so people would be happy to fit special-purpose tyres for one kind of degraded surface, but not for another.  Er, OK...

I doubt anyone has ever thought their standard 4WD Yeti would need to change them to access OUR ski fields without barstidising the drive system.

 

Fitting different-sized wheels & tyres is hardly "barstidising the drive system", any more than fitting chains is!

 

the Urban meet ALL legislative requirements but I seriously doubt (nor would I want to find out in practice in deep snow) whether the supposedly more capable 4WD does.

 

From my reading of the Skoda Australia brochure for the Yeti, all the variants come with 7Jx17" wheels.  Do the non-4x4 versions come with a narrower profile tyre fitted to that rim as standard - or is the brochure wrong? (The latter is certainly not an unknown occurrence in the UK!)

Edited 29 August, 2015 by ejstubbs

[Ryeman]

Hmm, so people would be happy to fit special-purpose tyres for one kind of degraded surface, but not for another.  Er, OK...

For general motoring in Australia there would be v few people who would want winter tyres for commuting etc.

It wouldn't come to their attention that their all terrain 4x4 couldn't, in practice, go to our ski fields without changing the wheel specs.

 

Fitting different-sized wheels & tyres is hardly "barstidising the drive system", any more than fitting chains is!

Barstidising - as in trying to extract yourself by using the chains on the rear wheels, (nothing to do with the fitting of APPROPRIATE wheels that you are not aware you need) a most unnatural act to my way of thinking.

It seems this is a peculiarly Australian problem as a result of the only tyre fitted to all Yetis out here is the above.

 

 

From my reading of the Skoda Australia brochure for the Yeti, all the variants come with 7Jx17" wheels.  Do the non-4x4 versions come with a narrower profile tyre fitted to that rim as standard - or is the brochure wrong? (The latter is certainly not an unknown occurrence in the UK!)

You're right, I thought the Urban had different ones.......it can't go to OUR fields at all without modification.

I wonder how many other European manufacturer end cars have the same problem when used HERE?

I have no problem with changing wheel tyre combinations.......if I KNOW there's a problem with the standard fitting but you're not told and are unlikely to find out till too late.

There is a different attitude out here to the designation 4WD because we take it that it's akin to a Nissan Patrol / Toyota Landcruiser /Mitsubishi Pajero etc we simply don't expect there to be a compromise.

I started out stating OUR situation and made no comment about YOURS.

[brad1.8T]

when you buy a car there's everything basically clear on its brochure. Here in Italy every people in winter change the regular summer with winter tyres without complaint......even forester buyer change their silly fourseason with winter approaching the Alps.

I'm sure you are totally correct about what people do in Italy.  Italy isn't Australia though.  Unless you actually lived within the Alpine region or visited most weekends during the ski season there's simply no need for snow tyres during our winter season.

 

You realise the Australian Alps is at longitude -37?  That's about the same down as  Catania is up.  Would they be changing to winter treads in Sicily during the season? 

 

Ryeman has alternatives to fix his problem but he's a good Aussie and like to have a moan before proceeding  :p

[Ryeman]

I'm sure you are totally correct about what people do in Italy.  Italy isn't Australia though.  Unless you actually lived within the Alpine region or visited most weekends during the ski season there's simply no need for snow tyres during our winter season.

 

You realise the Australian Alps is at longitude -37?  That's about the same down as  Catania is up.  Would they be changing to winter treads in Sicily during the season? 

 

Ryeman has alternatives to fix his problem but he's a good Aussie and like to have a moan before proceeding  :p

Now now! brad....D

It's just that it's a secret they (Skoda AU) don't want discussed for obvious reasons.

[Llanigraham]

So it's a case of "Wingeing Aussie" not "Wingeing Pom's".

That makes a change!!

 

Obviously not getting enough Vegemite!! 

[Ryeman]

So it's a case of "Wingeing Aussie" not "Wingeing Pom's".

That makes a change!!

 

Obviously not getting enough Vegemite!! 

Cheeky old bugger...D

[Ryeman]

I've read so many post relating to wheels and tyres and combinations thereof but is there a consensus on the best rim and tyre spec. for (brands aside) winters?.

The manual has so many it just confuses me, even allowing for my dementia.

[ejstubbs]

One of the most comprehensive sources of information on the subject that I know of is this thread in the Yeti technical guides section.  AFAIAA the information therein is applicable to both the original and the facelift Yeti versions.

 

I will admit that I was already planning to buy winter tyres (not snow tyres, which are a different animal again) when I bought my Yeti.  I did therefore check the handbook and spotted the restrictions about the use of snow chains, so I ordered the wheels & tyres in an appropriate size.

 

A week after I'd placed the order, this happened:

 

 

Unfortunately the winter wheels hadn't arrived at that point - in fact they took another fortnight to turn up, having been delayed en route by the bad weather!!!

[Huskoda]

I'm moving to Scotland...

[Ryeman]

GG.....I had to re read that, was thinking your winter was going to arrive early and spoil our touring.

Ps just picked up our Sixt hire car, a Citroen Picasso C4 diesel ...21 days for £365 and, for us as least, a lovely 'rubbery' ride and sweet manual shift.......hope it doesn't need chains and we get stable weather instead.

[ejstubbs]

Would they be changing to winter treads in Sicily during the season?

 

Depends on how the season is forecast to go.  Individual provinces can impose stricter regulations if they deem it fit.  Snow chains or winter tyres were certainly compulsory on some roads in Sicily during the winter of 2012-2013, see here.

[CicaYeti]

Depends on how the season is forecast to go.  Individual provinces can impose stricter regulations if they deem it fit.  Snow chains or winter tyres were certainly compulsory on some roads in Sicily during the winter of 2012-2013, see here.

 

Moreover Sicily has many mountains that force drivers to use chains or winter wheels.....it's not only a regulations matter, it's a need!

[coldplug]

For those in the antipodes, in particular, if you want to cross/enter our alpine regions and you are required to carry chains,

They can't be fitted to the above front tyres!.

They can be fitted to the rears only which makes me wonder if ADRs are being infringed and, more particularly, what it would be like driving this way.

Then there's, for me at least, Parks Victoria and VicRoads attitudes to consider.

Europe?.

 

Hello,

 

If you absolutely require front axle chains, I would suggest that you replace your tyres to 205/50 R17 and you're done, chains can be fitted then. Or even better, sell those rims and purchase 16", then use 205/55 R16 tyres.

 

And about this Haldex thing, new generations are proactive, which means that system can predict that engaging rear axle will be beneficial and push lot of torque there even before front wheel spins, or does not spin at all. How it does it; well, computer takes many variables into account; momentary driving style (particularly engaged gear and amount of accelerator pressed), steering wheel position, road inclination and so on, and if it thinks that wheels might spin it will transfer some torque to the rear. Basically, if you provoke the vehicle by agressive driving, particularly aggresive accelerating, it will do a lot of rear wheel action. If you drive with very defensive style, then not so much.

[Ryeman]

Obviously smaller wheels fix the problem.

As for the second part of your reply, I'm just not keen on the idea of being in a position where I'm forced to find out how that would actually go in practice if otherwise stranded.

In Australia at least we don't expect a vehicle with a 4x4 badge to be so compromised by a 'performance' wheel/tyre combination.

If you are aware of the issue prior to sale there can be no complaint, it's just that for most it comes as a surprise and potentially compromising safety.

[coldplug]

Obviously smaller wheels fix the problem.

As for the second part of your reply, I'm just not keen on the idea of being in a position where I'm forced to find out how that would actually go in practice if otherwise stranded.

In Australia at least we don't expect a vehicle with a 4x4 badge to be so compromised by a 'performance' wheel/tyre combination.

If you are aware of the issue prior to sale there can be no complaint, it's just that for most it comes as a surprise and potentially compromising safety.

 

Well yes, Yeti has 4x4 badge but it is not intended to be competition to any real offroad vehicle. In fact as manual states, even not with SUV's; quoting manual - "Even with off-road button, your vehicle is still not a true SUV". Despite this it is great for snow; however, many 4x4 SUVs and even sedans are equally good, but much much less for rocky offroad trails, just like Yeti is not. There is too low suspension articulation and low ground clearence to be able to cope with rocky terrain. That's why Yeti is pretty much not offroad vehicle, and performance tyres are good default choice for many owners. Still, I deliberately chosen 16" wheels with 215/60 tyres, knowing in advance they will be little bit more capable than 17" counterparts for light offroading (and also, cheaper for replace).

 

Your legals don't allow winter tyres instead of having mounted chains? That is strange but if it is, then you will have to go to narrower tyres as only solution.

Edited 17 September, 2015 by coldplug

[Ryeman]

In our 'managed' ski fields it's a no-compromise position of chains or no entry.

The low profile tyres are also prone to sidewall damage from our flint-like rocks but of course for 99.99% of driving they are otherwise excellent so the only compromise is the 16" wheel and chains when required for us.

[Llanigraham]

The low profile tyres are also prone to sidewall damage from our flint-like rocks but of course for 99.99% of driving they are otherwise excellent so the only compromise is the 16" wheel and chains when required for us.

 

OFGS!!

 

I, and other members on here, regularly drive on stone based forestry tracks, in standard Yetis with the standard 225/50r17 tyres, and I have not heard one of them complain about getting punctures because of sidewall damage, or any damage. In fact I don't remember any one of them reporting a puncture at all.

And after 90 rally cars have been though, sometimes twice, some of those tracks really are rough!!

 

And so the Yeti has a 4x4 badge on it and for that your criticise it. Would you also do the same thing against a Panda 4x4, or an Octavia, or an Impreza? All them have 4x4 badges as well!!

[Ryeman]

This is an Australian issue and Pandas are not sold, Imprezas can probably take chains but Octavias probably not also.

I have no doubt your conditions are perfectly suitable to the standard Yeti setup but I know OUR conditions and it's not , at least off the shelf and only people who read a forum will find out that in OUR ski fields it's not suitable without modification and most assuredly will come as a shock whenever they find out.

I don't lecture anyone about their conditions on the other side of the world but I am interested.

My original missive was about OUR situation and simply wasn't sure if it was an issue in Europe.

Read the original post.

Nobody 'rallies' on our 4WD tracks.

I've travelled thousands of miles on our crude rocky roads with care and without a single puncture

'Tracks' as designated as only suitable for high clearance Defender style vehicles in general with some odd exceptions where a Yeti might with extreme caution 'clamber' but 'staking' from sheared off tree stumps or rock ledges and limited ground clearance are what restrict it in AUSTRALIA.

Edited 17 September, 2015 by Ryeman