GT1749VB 150 or 160 for BLT (SE) ?

[vrs180]

Hi guys.

 

My wife has a Fabia vRS SE (BLT) and she has been telling me for several months that the turbo had started to make an unusual whistling sound but otherwise the car drives very well and with good economy, so yesterday I took the turbo inlet pipe off and peeked inside the compressor housing and found that the secondary blades on the compressor wheel were bent....Oh dear.

There are no marks on the blades at all and the bearings have no play in them so I'm assuming that this damage is a result of us having the car remapped a few years back and pushing the std KKK turbo beyond its limits.

So (after much searching on this site) our options appear to be:

1. Fit a new KKK and have the remap removed.

2. Fit a new Garrett GT1749VB and have the car remapped to suit.

We would prefer to fit a Garrett and have been looking on Darkside Developments web site, which would seem to suggest two options a 150 or a 160.

The car is still fitted with the EGR valve, which we would like to keep and apart from a Miltec cat back exhaust is standard.

A few things I'm still not sure about.

1. 150 or 160 which would suit us best

2. Would the actuator rod and stop screw require adjustment on a brand new 150 or 160 turbo.

3. If No 2 above is required, would that adjustment need to be made before or after the remap.

 

Thank you.

 

Bill.       

[vRS Joe]

What's the performance of the car like? If the damaged turbo has not affected how the car drives then you could just leave it.

Do you have a picture of the damage?

Who did the mapping?

As for a replacement turbo speak to Xman on here. Lots of choice and probably a good bit cheaper than Darkside.

If you re-map it again then I would highly recommend you delete the EGR. The resulting fault light can then be mapped out as part of the re map. Xman does EGR deletes too I think.

[vrs180]

Hi Joe

The car drives really well in fact it has a much better throttle response in the lower rev range and we have both noticed the mpg has improved a little if you drive the car gently ???

If you rev the car hard through the gears it does black smoke more than normal.

Big fish tuning did the remap.

Will try and load a pic of the bent blades.

Bill.

[vrs180]

[vRS Joe]

It's hard to tell but to me that turbo looks good.

Anyone else?

[FromTheDarkness]

Its hard to tell, but on the left centre it looks like there is something. But the pic looks like piece of metal debris is stuck, as the impeller looks in good nick. I would be tempted to take the turbo off and have a proper look before spending money.

[stevobeavo]

Can't say for certain but there's no scoring on. The housing or any sign of damaged edges on the blades.

Agree with the above, take the turbo off and have a look, if your handy with spanners its only 2/3 hours job first time around

[vrs180]

Thanks for the input guys.

The outer blades on the compressor wheel look OK but set close behind them is a second row of blades and it's these blades that are bent.

You can just make out the second row of blades in the picture and see three of them at the 10,12 & 2 o'clock position.

As you all say it's so hard to see while the turbo is still on the car looking with a mirror and a torch and at first I thought the second row of blades might just have been a reflection or trick of the light, but I did a quick search for images of a KKK compressor wheel and sure enough it does have two rows of blades and they should be straight and in line with the centre axis.

Bill

[vrs180]

Update.

Thanks to your input guys I've dug a bit deeper into the design and shape of the compressor wheel blades on a KKK BV39 turbo, and saved myself a fair bit of unnecessary time, money and hassle.

What I found was depending on the application, the leading edge of the secondary blades can be either bent or straight.

For our PD engine the blades are in fact bent when new, so all is good with the turbo.

I'm going to order some new gaskets etc and take the turbo and inlet manifold off and check & clean everything, and if that doesn't shed any light on why its making this noise then maybe I'll make some adapters (with my lathe) to pressure test the boost hoses.

Anyhow thanks again, I'd already made my mind up that the turbo was fecked and if it wasn't for your input I would have been on the phone ordering a new turbo first thing this morning, (no fool like an old fool).

Bill.

[vindaloo]

You may be better off doing the "Mr Muscle" cleaning trick first, rather than risking the turbo. One kink in the oil feed or return when refitting and at the least, the car is off the road whilst you source a replacement.

[Lofty]

I'd leave well alone tbh. If it aint broke don't fix it!!

 

The whistling could go on for many thousands of miles, as long as its performing ok I'd leave be. You could remove the turbo, clean and inspect it and it fail the week later, luck of the drawer.

[soul snatcher24]

the whistle/noise on boost and the black smoke more than usual points towards a boost leak to me, turbo looks in very good condition to me. Have a look underneath for oily mess round the joins for your boost pipes

[vrs180]

The noise is more of what I can only describe as a "tuneful chime" rather than a whistle or a blowing sound. It occurs at about 1500 to 2000rpm accelerating with a light throttle and mainly in 4th gear, and it will also do it if you lift off the throttle and let the revs fall through the same rev range (but not as loud).

I have trouble hearing it prob because it's almost out of my hearing range, but my wife said it started soon after I changed the cam belt and water pump, (set the torsion value to 0.0), fitted a Miltec cat back exhaust and cleaned the EGR and anti shudder valve.

I have checked the boost pipes numerous times and replaced all the seals in the boost pipes but still the sound remains.

The strange thing is the car has never gone as well as it does now, we have owned the car for just over 4 years and it had only done 17k when we got it, it replaced an 06 vRS which our son owns and compared to that it has always been a bit of a disappointment performance wise.

Even the guy who remapped it said it was holding back compared to our sons almost like it was carboned up.

But it is'nt holding back any more I drives just like our old vRS and runs much smoother with a better throttle response.

Bill.

[vrs180]

Took the turbo off today and found that the bearings are worn and the shaft has some end float.

The bearings are worn to the extent that the compressor wheel blades are ever so slightly rubbing on the compressor housing (no evidence that the blades or housing are scored or damaged).

Really disappointed , it's only done 54K and gets an oil and filter change every 6K.

I contacted TPS for a price for a new KKK and was quoted £1,700 ouch.

So I need a new turbo ASAP, and hopefully one that's more robust the the standard KKK.

Bill.

[sepulchrave]

Contact xman750 on here and get a new small hybrid, much better made and a bit more power if you want it.

[vrs180]

Thanks sepulchrave, I've just sent xman750 an E mail.

Would a new small hybrid be a better choice than a new Garrett GT1749VB ?

Our car is standard other than a remap and Miltec cat back exhaust (engine wise), and ideally would like to avoid having to replace the SMIC and fit an uprated clutch etc.

The wife and I are both in our 50's and drive the car very gently 99% of the time (trying to better each others mpg figures) and rarely use the extra power.

Bill.

[stevobeavo]

If I was you I'd ask xman750 for a pd130 hybrid. That way it will be a straight bolt one job as the pd150 runs a different egr setup.

[vrs180]

Hi.

 

Thanks to all who took the time to reply, I just thought I'd finish this thread by updating you on the outcome. 

 

We explored many avenues to try and find a replacement turbo but in the end (and largely due to time constraints) there was only really two choices, fit a new KKK BV39 and hope we had better luck second time around or fit a new Garrett GT17 (PD160). 

 

As we don't seem to have much luck, I will be fitting a Garrett in the morning and have the car booked in on Friday to get the map checked/adjusted to suit.

 

Bill.

[stevobeavo]

Good choice.

[vrs180]

Hi

Just got back from Big Fish Tuning and the car drives absolutely fantastic, Jon at Big Fish has deliberately held back on the torque to presserve the std clutch.

Peak figures are 193.3bhp @3733rpm & 409Nm @ 2248rpm.

Happy days.

Bill.

PS; a very big thank you to Scott at Darkside developments for sorting out the hardware and Jon at Big Fish tuning for sorting out the software.