Fabia Diesel Idle Issue

[tbtstt]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster! 

 

I wonder if I could trouble you all with an issue my 2007 Fabia 1.9 TDi has developed. Sorry if I waffle on a bit, but here is some background info...

 

I started it this morning with no issue, reversed out onto the road and all was well, started to pull away and about 30 feet down the road the car started to feel very rough. I pulled over and turned the engine off, double checked I wasn't doing something stupid (as it was first thing in the morning), then started it up again. It was still idling roughly, so I popped the bonnet for further investigation and noticed that the engine was really moving around, so I immediately shut it off again. 

 

I checked the engine for the obvious (loose pipes, connectors etc.) but could see nothing so, suspecting that the next step would be a tow, I phoned the AA. He turned up, ran a diagnostic on the car and could find nothing. Started the engine and there was no idle problem, so I drove it up and down the road and the fault wouldn't come back nor were there any error codes. With both of us scratching out heads, I then drove the car to work with the AA chap following me and made it (22ish miles) without issue.

 

I just popped out for lunch and, at lower revs all is still well, however as soon as I rev the engine (above 2.5K), the idle is awful as the revs settle down and it remains that way for a few seconds. As with this morning, the engine is really moving around when the idle is off, almost like it is misfiring, however it does now seem to settle back to a normal idle after a few seconds. 

 

Car currently has 115K on it and has been fully serviced at the correct intervals. 

 

Does anyone have any ideas please? 

Edited 3 September, 2015 by tbtstt

[tbtstt]

Well the car is off to the local Skoda dealership tomorrow, so I'm hoping to have an answer. The evening prior to these problems beginning I ran the car very low on diesel before topping it up. I wonder if I have possibly dragged some crap from the bottom of the tank into the fuel filter: I wonder if debris in the fuel filter could cause the sort of issue I'm experiencing?

[Wakey]

No that won't be it. That sort of thing doesn't happen these days.

 

I'll go for the entire intake tract and Idle control valve being gunked up due to the EGR valve chucking dirty diesel fumes back in to the intake side.

[tbtstt]

Thanks for the reply Wakey. I've got it into my head that the issue is fuel related, hence why I thought the filter theory seemed feasible. If it just turns out that everything needs a damn good clean then I'd be very happy indeed!

 

Dropped the car off to the dealer this morning. Haven't used it for a couple of days, but the problem was exactly the same: didn't want to rev at all until it had really warmed up, then anything above 2.5K produced the same "misfire" symptoms.

 

Fingers crossed the dealer can easily identify the problem... and the fix won't bankrupt me!

[tbtstt]

Just had a call from the dealership: they believe they have traced the fault the wiring loom. Replacement loom is on the way and expected on Thursday so, with a bit of luck (fingers crossed at this point) I may have my Skoda back for the weekend!

[mrgf]

Fuel filters can indeed cause problems but usually either total blockage (No start) Or partial, (Stalling when stopping or rough idle/hesitation at slow speeds, when fuel is under less pressure).

 

Probably unlikely in your case although for around £15 from Euro, etc, worth changing annually, regardless!

 

Additionally, I have been told that the injector seals can round off and cause problems, sometimes an injector seal kit helps, otherwise (Expensive) injector replacement. (Just had it)!

Edited 16 September, 2015 by mrgf

[tbtstt]

Just spoken to the dealer and the news isn't good. The loom arrived, was fitted... and apparently made no difference at all. The chap I spoke to on the phone seemed like an office type rather than a mechanic, but he is now telling me that the engine is knackered and requires replacement. He also told me that the problem has worsened since I dropped the car off and is now far more severe. 

 

I'm pretty stunned by this development if I'm perfectly honest. I haven't looked into exact costs yet, but I don't need an expert to know that a replacement engine isn't cheap. I'm also a little concerned as to how a consistent problem that I could nurse along has so rapidly escalated into full blown engine failure.

 

The chap in the dealership has promised to call me back tomorrow; he is going to get the technician on the phone so he can talk me through exactly what has happened and exactly what is wrong with the engine beyond it "being broken". 

[px53jdj]

Sounds like a worn cam or follower quite common on 8v pd engine's

[tbtstt]

I'm hoping for some more specifics when the dealer phones me back: "broken engine" is rather vague!

 

Not having the car in front of me, would anyone be able to confirm the code for the engine in my car please? 

[tbtstt]

Well after two days of chasing, I finally spoke to the technician today. They have offered to strip the head down to determine what the exact problem is, but they have advised that they think this is a waste of money as the engine "needs replacing". 

 

From what I have been told on the phone today it now seems that the misfire is permanent; given that I had the car in my care for 8 days with the issue and it never worsened, I fear that someone didn't listen to me when I said the problem is at it's most severe when the engine is cold. The car is now supposedly completely undriveable. 

Have had to chase the dealership multiple times in the last few days and I am currently sitting here awaiting a return phone call which I suspect isn't going to come this late in the day. This whole episode has been doubling frustrating as, to date, the service I have received from the Skoda dealerships I have dealt with has always been very good.

[mrgf]

Have you (Or previous owners) ever accidentally added petrol and had to drain tank? Or had a replaced cylinder head?

[tbtstt]

I can't speak for the previous owner, but I have never mis-filled it nor replaced any major engine component (I have had the car three and a half years and put around 40,000 trouble free miles on it).

 

After much arguing, I am now taking the car back from the dealership. I will have to pay for the diagnostic time, but not the loom change. Even paying for the diagnostic time stings, as am I effectively being charged for rendering the car completely undriveable and learning nothing about the fault in the process. Cursing myself for going to the main dealer now; based on my service there in the past I thought they would have quickly identified the problem, but it seems they were not as competent as I thought. Truth be told they don't seem interested in something they deem to be an old car (which probably shouldn't surprise me).

 

Going to pay the bill tomorrow and morning and speak with the technician. I will be towing the car to a lock up on Thursday then I shall decide what to do with it. 

[Wakey]

I would recommend you take it to an independent VW specialist.

 

With dealerships they often have 'technicians' as opposed to properly trained and experienced mechanics. Any knowledgeable mechanic will tell you why it's doing it and what needs to be done.

 

Dealerships tend to follow a limited fault finding path directed to them by manufacturer written manuals. They tend to diagnose and replace things in blocks ie if the fault lies with a burnt out valve then it needs a new top end. A specialist will strip the head off and send it away to be cleaned and the valves lapped.

 

To fault find properly and correctly is a waste of money for the dealership as they can spend hours and hours going around in circles and not being able to charge for the time - an easy diagnosis and change of component (of course supplied and marked up by them) is more profitable.

 

Perhaps try a relevant VW forum that shares your engine and ask for recommendations in the area. I think you will find a far more comprehensive answer than replace the engine. Someone will have either had the same problem or will know what the issue is; of that I'm pretty confident.

 

Unfortunately that's all I can offer - good luck with it.

[tbtstt]

I would recommend you take it to an independent VW specialist.

 

With dealerships they often have 'technicians' as opposed to properly trained and experienced mechanics. Any knowledgeable mechanic will tell you why it's doing it and what needs to be done.

 

Dealerships tend to follow a limited fault finding path directed to them by manufacturer written manuals. They tend to diagnose and replace things in blocks ie if the fault lies with a burnt out valve then it needs a new top end. A specialist will strip the head off and send it away to be cleaned and the valves lapped.

 

To fault find properly and correctly is a waste of money for the dealership as they can spend hours and hours going around in circles and not being able to charge for the time - an easy diagnosis and change of component (of course supplied and marked up by them) is more profitable.

 

Perhaps try a relevant VW forum that shares your engine and ask for recommendations in the area. I think you will find a far more comprehensive answer than replace the engine. Someone will have either had the same problem or will know what the issue is; of that I'm pretty confident.

 

Unfortunately that's all I can offer - good luck with it.

Thanks. Genuinely appreciate you (and everyone else in the thread) taking the time to read my posts and reply.

 

Your point with regards to dealerships is a fair one: and one I should really have factored in myself. My Skoda is a daily runaround and I have a second car for weekend fun. I would never dream of taking my weekend toy to a dealership: I really should have applied the same logic with regards to my daily!

 

Went to the dealership this morning to settle the bill up. Expressed my disappointment at how the defect had been handled and the patchy communication I have received. The lady in the showroom was very apologetic and insisted she would follow that up. Perhaps she will, perhaps she won't, but at least she acted like she cared!

 

I then went to the service area to speak to the "manager" who I have been dealing with on the phone to collect a report of what has been done, discuss the car and move it to a suitable location for towing. The aforementioned manager wasn't there, so instead I spoke to the senior technician: what a world of difference. Concise answers to questions, an accurate technical description of the fault finding process employed and a description of exactly what has happened while the car has been with them. Unlike what I was told on the phone the fault hasn't changed and still occurs when cold, gradually lessening as the car warms up. That in itself is a massive relief as I feared the initial problem had been worsened.

 

The manager from the phone conversations eventually turned up (20 minutes late): he was a bloke in a suit and didn't look like he knew one end of a spanner from another! God knows why they have him dealing with customer service queries, as he inspired me with absolutely zero confidence.

[tbtstt]

Thought I would update this thread for what I think will be the last time. 

 

Got the car back from the dealership and recovered to a garage so I could look it over myself. Tried changed the fuel filter on the off chance but sadly that wasn't it so, on the advice of a colleague, I then spoke to the (very helpful) chaps at Automarine Diesel Services. They reiterated a lot of what had been mentioned in this thread (specifically cam, follower and injectors) as well as giving me instructions on what to look for on the way to removing the injectors.  

 

Checked the cam and could see no evidence of wear, so I then pulled the injectors and sent them away for testing. The test showed nothing wrong with them but, with them cleaned up and new seals fitted, I put them back into the engine this evening and hoped for the best. Fired it up and... the problem is still there as soon as you rev it. :( The only other pointers I've received at this stage point to something in the head which will require another chunk of cash.

 

I can't afford to throw anymore money at it, so I will begin phoning around tomorrow to see what the car is worth in it's current state. Gutted my time with the car is coming to an end in such a way. 

[mrgf]

You sure there is no problem with camshaft? I had similar issue (Hence asking about having head change or misfuel. The cam could be worn if driven without oil. My one had warranty engine replacement but `i recon they kept same cam and head only to wear out in a fairly quick timeframe.

[tbtstt]

You sure there is no problem with camshaft? I had similar issue (Hence asking about having head change or misfuel. The cam could be worn if driven without oil. My one had warranty engine replacement but `i recon they kept same cam and head only to wear out in a fairly quick timeframe.

It certainly looked fine when I checked it over; I could see no areas where wear was obvious. The chaps I spoke to at Automarine Diesel Services also thought it was a good possibility, though they weren't convinced that a cam problem would "cure" itself when the engine got warm.

 

Anyway, I sold the car during the week. Gutted I had to let it go, but I need a working car so I am no longer a Fabia owner!

[mrgf]

Sorry to hear that. Better luck with your next set of four!