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Bad idle question and scan attached.


munster

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Guys (and Girls)

I have come back to the fold, again! I have had 2 Mk1's and a Ltd addition Mk2, all of which I've loved owning.

 

I couldn't help myself and bought another Mk1, primarily because I hate driving the diesel A4 we bought instead of the Mk2 and because I wanted a Mk1 again.

 

I got it cheap but it has an idle problem, amongst other problems that I will sort out over time.

It idles then drops to about 5K revs then up to about 10k and repeats every 20 seconds or so. When you're driving its pretty much ok but power delivery isn't particulary smooth.

 

I scanned it tonight and it shows up the below, what do I need to do, look at, replace, repair based on the scan.

 

Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AJQ.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 HN
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002  
   Coding: 11500
   Shop #: WSC 31480  
   VCID: 71E933463B0917966BD-5198
   TMBER41U948740755     SKZ7Z0C2221066

2 Faults Found:
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
            P0102 - 35-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
            P0130 - 35-00 - Malfunction in Circuit
Readiness: 0000 1001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 K
   Component: ASR FRONT MK60      0103  
   Coding: 0021505
   Shop #: WSC 31480 000 00000
   VCID: 326BFC4AAE8F6C8E527-5198

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1Ux-907-044.lbl
   Part No: 1U1 907 044 A
   Component: CLIMATRONIC     C 2.0.0  
   Coding: 11000
   Shop #: WSC 31480  
   VCID: 306FF642F0835E9E243-51D4

3 Faults Found:
00281 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (G68)
            37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
            37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71)
            37-00 - Faulty

 

I'm quite happy to get the spanners out so any advice is most welcome.

 

Cheers and hello again

Munster

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On the engine, the maf is faulty, assuming the wiring connector is ok and connected, and you have a heating circuit failure on the front lambda sensor, so again, assuming connector is connected, then you need a new sensor.

 

The heating codes are a speed sensor, which has been known to be broken wiring before, but could turn out to be the sensor itself. That will need to be checked out with a multimeter to be sure as they are not cheap from memory to just bang one in and try it.

 

The other codes could be worth running an output test on the climate unit with VCDS to re sync the motors and see what happens.

 

The 1314 code is because you have codes present in the ecu that effect that system (probably the speed sensor). Again check with VCDS after the codes have been cleared and see what comes back.

 

Here is a better explanation of the individual codes for you :-

 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/00281

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01271

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01274

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16486/P0102/000258

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16514/P0130/000304

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01314

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As Phil says you can try and reset the climatronic with vcds. Also as you turn ignition on hold down the 2 extreme left an right buttons and it will cycle through a self diagnose and can sometimes reset itself that way. It will also give a fault code or 2 which should reflect what you found in the scan. In vcds you want base settings for that module.

It's a brave man that changes the flap motor, I have a spare one if you should need it, I won't want much for it. I got a gen used one to swap mine out with but after a couple of reset cycles it eventually cured itself.

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Thanks fellas

I did the self diagnostic via the climatronic buttons and it comes up as 4FA 00, then scanned the car again, having cleared the faults last night.

The only fault that showed up tonight was 01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71) 37-00 - Faulty

Which is the recirc flap as you have already mentioned. So I am assuming that is stuck closed as I get cold air when I want it?!

 

The car showed no other faults though, admittedly I didn't drive it anywhere just idling on the drive as the other car was blocking me in and I couldn't be bothered to move it.

From cold it idled nicely so I let it get it to about half way to 90 and gently revved it. On taking my foot of the throttle it searched between 5 & 10 then settled again after about 3-5 seconds. It stayed like that nicely idling until I revved it again and it did exactly the same as before. I tried it again and again with the same result.

When I turned it off I scanned it again and it still shows no fault.

 

I'm sort of stumped now, any ideas?

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The car has to complete a certain amount of duty cycles (stop/start on the key) before any codes found will actually be logged as faults unless the item is physically u/s or disconnected.

 

Sensors tend to take 4-7 days to return as logs in average use.

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And your 4fa code on your climatronic is indeed for the flap motor. You can check if flap is working/stuck closed by taking the glovebox out and having a nosey under the pollen filter. Mine chirped like a quiet bird and returned that fault, but it worked and then the fault disappeared. Motor is in a pig of a place to get to.

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The car has to complete a certain amount of duty cycles (stop/start on the key) before any codes found will actually be logged as faults unless the item is physically u/s or disconnected.

 

Sensors tend to take 4-7 days to return as logs in average use.

 

I didn't know that Phil I assumed they would pop straight back up, so thank you because that makes sense now.

 

 

And your 4fa code on your climatronic is indeed for the flap motor. You can check if flap is working/stuck closed by taking the glovebox out and having a nosey under the pollen filter. Mine chirped like a quiet bird and returned that fault, but it worked and then the fault disappeared. Motor is in a pig of a place to get to.

 

I'll have a look tomorrow on my day off, cheers.

 

Whilst I'm on here should I clean the MAF, if yes how? Or buy a new one, if yes which one there are loads and run from £20 to +£100. Whilst I'm not averse to spending money I don't want to go mad I just want it to go to start with, if you know what I mean.

Edited by munster
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I didn't know that Phil I assumed they would pop straight back up, so thank you because that makes sense now.

 

 

 

I'll have a look tomorrow on my day off, cheers.

 

Whilst I'm on here should I clean the MAF, if yes how? Or buy a new one, if yes which one there are loads and run from £20 to +£100. Whilst I'm not averse to spending money I don't want to go mad I just want it to go to start with, if you know what I mean.

You can try cleaning the maf, has to be a specific cleaner, can't remember what ingredients you need or don't want but if you ebay maf sensor cleaner you'll find it. However there are mixed results with cleaning, it's better done as maintenance rather than a solution to a problem. Try it by all means.

If you need a replacement you really need an oem bosch from the dealers. Apparently the bosch ones on euro car parts are bosch pattern parts so not quite the same so I heard.

That said, I ran a pattern part one from euro in my old toledo v5 for a year until I sold it with no issues whatsoever, cost about 50 quid, not totally cheap but not mega bucks. I think it was valeo they aren't bad as aftermarket go and I think they make some oem parts, but some have had issues from day one with patterns. You could try a cheapy to get you out of trouble but how long it lasts might be a lottery. For the lambda I'd go bosch.

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Isopropyl Alcohol poured into a self sealing sandwich bag to about 1 ", drop in the maf and shake the bag for about 10 seconds then leave to stand for 10 seconds. Remove from the bag then let it air dry for 5 minutes, after which it will be ok to refit.

 

As YellowCar said, for Lambda, either OEM or Bosch.

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Just the sensor, removed from the air body.

 

Some of the sensors have special security torx screws fitted. If you have them either use something like this - https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/laser-5031-23-piece-torx-plus-bit-set?da=1&TC=SLI-040216031  or if cash is tight, carefully cut a slot in the screw head and remove with a normal screwdriver.

 

You would also be wise to get a tube of this - http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/servisol-multi-purpose-silicone-grease-50g-tube-re90x  so that as you disturb an electrical connection, a small amount inside the the connector before refitting the plug will reduce water ingress dramatically. The plus is you can use it on almost all non high voltage connections - door control units immediately spring to mind - and a tube will probably last you 2-3 years, so a fiver well spent.

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Well, I went around the shops in town trying to find Isopropyl Alcohol and couldn't find any anywhere, it really seems to be like rocking horse pooh!

So I bit the bullet and went and got a Bosch MAF and exchanged my old one to save some money.

I just stuck it on and turned the key - but then I read on here someone saying it needed to be set up!! Is that right?

If yes, what do you have to do to set it up?

 

It certainly made a difference anyway but I think the Lambda still needs doing because it still does the searching for revs thing, albeit nowhere near as bad as previously.

I never got the chance to spend too much time playing today but did change the cabin filter which was so full of crud I'm amazed any fresh air got into the car ever!

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I've never 'set up' a maf. Ecu should learn it. Disconnect battery when you install if you like to clear memory, after fitting let car tick over, go for a drive with varied throttle application.

A moving idle could be an air leak somewhere, however you did have the code for the lambda so a new one of those could solve it.

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As YellowCar said, they don't normally require calibration, as when the system senses new readings, it "learns" from how you drive for a day or two. However, the code on your Lambda sensor is only for the heating circuit to the sensor for when the cat is cold, but it is not impossible that you have a failing main sensor too. The front pre cat sensor has a heating coil built in to the sensor, whereas the after cat sensor does not.

 

Do you know anybody with VCDS at all?, as they could read the sensor real time and tell you if it was sick or not.

 

Again I'm with YellowCar on the "hunting" at idle, a check on the y pipe and the pipes on the inlet manifold may be time well spent there.

 

You can get Isopropyl Alcohol in the high street at Maplin - http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/isopropyl-alcohol-1-litre-re71n    , but suppliers can do it cheaper on the bay of e

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Phil, Yellow

I had a look at the Y pipe and found it was held on by cable ties and the single one was at an angle so not uniform across the whole pipe or even securing it properly!. I changed all of them to jubilee clips so hopefully nice uniform tightness around the whole pipe!

Driving it up and down the road it pulls better than previously but when I pulled up on the drive it started searching for revs again so I have ordered a new Lambda from GSF, using the 35% discount code they posted on here, so I'm happy with that and will fit it when it arrives and hopefully it will cure the issue.

It looks like the Y pipe is new so I guess the old one failed at some point and the PO decided cable ties was the way forward!

 

When you say "in real time" with VCDS what do I have to do to do that? Well what do I have to get my mate to do to do that?

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It's also worth checking out the pipework that runs from that y pipe and down to the 90 degree elbow by the dipstick. Access isn't easy but splits and connecting issues are also common round there. Good you can rule that one out though.

I think what Phil means is that you can plug in vcds and your mate can read data in the passenger seat as you drive. I've managed to log myself but pulling over every few minutes and looking through the huge list of numbers isn't ideal. I'm lucky I have a stretch of national speed limit with laybys literally round the corner.

Hopefully a new Lambda will help, it could be a mixture thing as a result of a squiffy reading from the dodgy one. Erratic idle does smell of perhaps more airflow/leak issues which often show themselves more when up to temp.

Here's another one to check, how is your secondary air pump and it's connections? Is your car noisy on cold start? It's not uncommon for the associated pipework to pop off and split. As the sai isn't doing anything when up to temp, the pipework problems can still effect things like idle and power delivery. It still comes back to airflow...as these cars often do!

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Hi, YellowCar has the basic idea of what I was saying almost bang on, the only difference, is you don't really need to drive it, just monitor Lambda and the voltage switch at idle and when you rev it.

 

That should give you enough info to confirm good or bad for the sensors operation, but as you are already ordering a new one, it does not really matter apart from confirming the new one is working ok. The sensors are only narrowband so you can't really monitor/change too much with Air Fuel Ratio on the move

 

As Yellow said, check the pipe under the manifold, particularly the "s" pipe as they like a split or two along the way.

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Phil, Yellow

Had a look at the "S" pipe and found this!

WP_20150928_16_56_48_Pro_zpslb4h1lhr.jpg

 

The white bit behind is my blue gloved hand. I could get my finger into the hole behind the split and it is very brittle as a piece came away!

Is this likely to be my problem?

I will order a new hose and try and get my massive hands into that tiny space to fit it!!!!!

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Ah-haaaaa that certainly won't be helping matters!

It's not an easy place to work you're quite right, especially getting those hateful oem clips off. You can make access easier by undoing the hose from airbox to sai and shifting it out the way, taking off lower cover trim and unbolting the metal section across the dipstick that has a load of hoses clipped on to it. But you may well have noticed that. Nice to find something fairly definite though. I'm not sure exactly which pipe it is, I may have one in the shed after doing the vac simplification/catch can install, but a new one shouldn't be hard to get from the dealers.

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I would do the hose before fitting the Lambda sensor, as any unmetered air getting to the system after the MAF is going to really screw with the mixture that the Lambda sensor actually sees, although it won't make the heating coil in the sensor start working again.

 

Glad to see you are actually finding things wrong rather than having to guess at what it may be, as a VCDS scan can be useful when something is actually broken, but can also be frustrating when the fault is not obvious from the code. :thumbup:

 

Just a word of caution, be careful when yanking about on the hoses near the plastic elbow on top of the filter housing, as these get brittle with heat and fumes, which means they break quite easy. Not difficult to change if you do, but a pain in the rear all the same. You'll also become a Zen master like the rest of us after an hour or so with the factory pipe clips. :giggle:

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Well guys your prophecy was correct

 

Just a word of caution, be careful when yanking about on the hoses near the plastic elbow on top of the filter housing, as these get brittle with heat and fumes, which means they break quite easy. Not difficult to change if you do, but a pain in the rear all the same. You'll also become a Zen master like the rest of us after an hour or so with the factory pipe clips. :giggle:

 

What a pain in the @rse and I still haven't finished!

I started on the car late today as I had to clean the aquarium as it was turning a shade of green not condusive with fish living for much longer!

Anyway I did as Yellow suggested and undid a few hoses and the metal strip on the front of the engine which has half the worlds supply of pipes attached to it.

That gave me at least another 4" square for my shovels to fit through! :sweat:

I took the "S" pipe off and found this;

WP_20150930_20_20_46_Pro_zpsour8cf5p.jpg

WP_20150930_20_20_42_Pro_zpsjgkbr6fp.jpg

 

But I also found this :thumbdown:

 

WP_20150930_20_21_15_Pro_zps8cnnbfsh.jpg

WP_20150930_20_21_03_Pro_zpsfrlfukdr.jpg

 

Took a while to get the remains out of the pipe but I managed it eventually. I found an O ring in the remains so found one in the O ring kit I have that was a similar size.

 

Luckily I ordered a 6 piece kit so had a replacement for both pipes, all good I thought.

 

I have done everything but I can't get the big pipe far enough into the hole to get the clip across. Without the O ring it fits no probs but with the O ring I just can't seem to get it to fit especially in such a tight space, any ideas?

 

By now it was very dark so I have had to leave it plus I was getting frustrated with it too.

I'll get back to it tomorrow.

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I take it that is what is left of the elbow?, assuming that you have got all the old remains out of the hole (that can be quite a mission in itself, I use a set of these for stuff like this - http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/rolson-4-part-stainless-steel-construction-spring-hook-and-pick-set-n16fa) then I would lightly grease the housing hole with some Vaseline, to aid the O ring to compress.

 

You will find it a lot easier if you assemble the hoses off the car but do not tighten the hose clips yet, that lets you twist and turn them about to the right angles , without having to push and shove hoses onto connectors in a near impossible space. Once you get the elbow to slide in, remove it again to fit the hoses, then slide it in for good and clip it.

 

Just to be clear, we are talking about items 7, 8 and 9 in the picture here? - http://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/octavia-mk1/drive_unit/1.8_ltr./110_kw_engine_mechanical_components/engine_lubrication/removing_and_installing_parts_of_the_lubrication_system/disassembling_and_assembling_oil_filter_holder/

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