Government cuts to emergency services

[Guest ProfesorDeBuceo]

No-one can fail to be effected in some way by financial cuts imposed by the present government. One area that gives major concern is cuts to UK emergency services, and in particular the police.

 

A petition has been started which hopes to have the government look again at policies in this area. (This is not my petition, though I do support it).

 

Please think carefully about how policing is being affected and if, like me, you think the government is wrong then sign the petition (& get your friends etc to also sign). :yes:

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/109383

 

 

Thanks.

[Rooted]

Does that not require some correction.

 

Is it not the present UK Governments financial cuts to the Emergency services in England.?

 

The Present UK Government cuts in England might mean less money is received for the Budgeting for Emergency Services that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have control over.

Devolved Powers /Spending.

[Guest ProfesorDeBuceo]

Does that not require some correction.

 

Is it not the present UK Governments financial cuts to the Emergency services in England.?

 

The Present UK Government cuts in England might mean less money is received for the Budgeting for Emergency Services that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have control over.

Devolved Powers /Spending.

 

Thanks your comments which I'm sure the petition originator will take on board.

[Rooted]

& so they should.  

Think before proposing a petition. and also before signing one.

[Guest ProfesorDeBuceo]

& so they should.  

Think before proposing a petition. and also before signing one.

 

"Better to kept quiet & let others think you’re a fool than to speak & prove them right!"

[Kenworthy]

Thank you for comment!

 

I know little to nothing about Police or policing. I have taken this upon my shoulders, with very little help though I did ask a few. 

 

That was excuse one

 

Excuse two. I see police being cut deeper than the bone, so best I could do was to make it up as I went along. 

 

"Devolved Powers /Spending" Not a clue, I am a coach driver, I drive coaches, politics is truly not my area. No Traff Pol about, I put up a petition in the hope of getting them back. It is all Police that need the finances to continue. 

 

Changing the wording I doubt is possible, people have signed to the wording expressed on the petition. 

 

As for the insults, fine whatever makes one happy!

Edited 6 October, 2015 by Kenworthy

[gadgetman]

The police can't carry out day to day functions, but happily find the cash for speed cameras.

It's time police commissioners were held to account for what they prioritise.

[domhnall]

Thank you for comment!

 

I know little to nothing about Police or policing. I have taken this upon my shoulders, with very little help though I did ask a few. 

 

That was excuse one

 

Excuse two. I see police being cut deeper than the bone, so best I could do was to make it up as I went along. 

 

"Devolved Powers /Spending" Not a clue, I am a coach driver, I drive coaches, politics is truly not my area. No Traff Pol about, I put up a petition in the hope of getting them back. It is all Police that need the finances to continue. 

 

Changing the wording I doubt is possible, people have signed to the wording expressed on the petition. 

 

As for the insults, fine whatever makes one happy!

 

 

george was a little "direct" in his phrasing but he is right, the cuts to policing are a matter for England. In Scotland the government chose to endure the cuts by abolishing regional police forces in order to maintain officer numbers. That has been widely criticised. The alternative has been pursued in England. CUt officer numbers in order to preserve the regional forces. 

[Tim1631]

The police can't carry out day to day functions, but happily find the cash for speed cameras.

It's time police commissioners were held to account for what they prioritise.

Are you a cop?

Police can carry out their duty for now as they are stressed and feeling the pressure but for how long? They do the job as they are committed to helping people but their health is being affected due to stress of more and more work loaded onto them.

Police don't maintain cameras anymore. The cameras pay for themselves so the "Police" aren't really spending money on them. They are like the royal family they bring in more money than it cost to have them.

Speed cameras should be on estates where the speed is now down to 20, I have seen assholes speeding in housing estates.

Edited 6 October, 2015 by Tim1631

[Tim1631]

Police wouldn't be able to cope with a riot situation with the numbers they have. They are relying on specials which are volunteers to go and work with them. The pretence that they may get a full time position, probably by the time we inhabit Mars.

[domhnall]

Crime at a 40 year low, officer numbers maintained, senior officers and back office functions merged, this is the alternative, but people aren't happy and opposition parties are complaining about our new national police force and longing for a return to the old regional forces. Can't please everyone

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[mdon]

Crime at a 40 year low, officer numbers maintained, senior officers and back office functions merged, this is the alternative, but people aren't happy and opposition parties are complaining about our new national police force and longing for a return to the old regional forces. Can't please everyone

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

You won't get your regional police forces back. The talk south of the border is that the remaining 43 police forces will be merged into 8.

As for crime at a 40 year low, never! Crime recording changes more often that you change your underwear, depending on which way the wind is blowing is how the statistics are massaged.

[kevberlin]

To measure police effectiveness or efficiency by quoting crime figures is complete folly.

[Chriswright03]

Crime at a 40 year low, officer numbers maintained, senior officers and back office functions merged, this is the alternative, but people aren't happy and opposition parties are complaining about our new national police force and longing for a return to the old regional forces. Can't please everyone

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

As mdon has said do not believe that crime is at a 40 year low.  Crime reporting rules do change and are massaged so that in the end they actually are meaningless to anyone who wants to know the true picture and are only used as a part of any spin that they are involved in at any given time.

 

Officer numbers maintained?  Where did you get that snippet from?  They are not and the ones who are left are far too busy with paperwork to do real policing that could actually make a difference.

 

Senior officers and back office functions merged?  Yeah OK a Chief Inspector or Superintendent will now be doing the work of an office clerk!  Not in your lifetime!

 

Since I retired Lincolnshire Police has extended their car park at least twice so it can contain the vastly increased amount of cars that all of the workers use to get there.  There will be but a handfull (if any) operational officers working out of there and the whole place is inhabited by Civilian employees who form part of the huge effort to consume the entire rainforests of the globe with the amount of paperwork that they generate.

 

In truth, due to the amount of years I have been retired I don't think I know the half of what actually goes on and most of what I say is pure guess work.  I know for certain that the work of a serving officer has worsened in all aspects and feel sure that if the serving officers on here were able to tell us the truth we would be horrified.  That I hasten to add is not the fault of the officers on the ground but the 'Powers that be' who think up these daft schemes and targets and enforce them upon them without a clue as to what harm they do.

 

I said it when I was serving and I say it now.  There will be a turning point when the Public has had enough.  When the normal man and woman in the street cannot go about their daily 'normal' life without fear of being a victim of crime we have been failed by those that enforce daft schemes.  There will be a time in our future when the tide will turn and it won't be pretty!

 

As for merging forces?  That will be done to make them financially viable and again is nothing to do with effectiveness.  How can a force managed by someone 200 miles away know what happens in your area?  If you liken it to the little corner shop that you could go into and they knew what you wanted and had it for you plus they knew your name and the names of all your family compared to the Supermarket who will tell you what it is that you want.  Supermarket will save you money but you won't get a service like you did.

[mdon]

To be fair to domhnall, I believe police Scotland has maintained its front line officers. However here in England in my old force we had a BCU (borough/basic command unit, 3 of them make up the entire force) that covers 762square miles and has a population of 166,000 people. Back in 2010 we would have roughly 40 officers covering this area, that included traffic, task force, community and response officers based at 9 stations. Now that same area is covered by 14 officers including OSU (traffic) and response. The community and task force teams have been disbanded. All based out of 2 stations. This means IR (blue light) runs of half an hour is normal and in some areas if a officer presses their emergency button the nearest urgent assistance is 30-40 minutes away. All the damage has already been done, my old colleagues are leaving in swaths and the police are now selective in what they respond too, and to be honest, I can't blame them.

To the general public this means if you have a large public order incident (say ten or fifteen people fighting) the police probably won't turn up for quite some time as they'll wait until they can source enough officers before deploying them. These are dangerous times for both officers and public all thanks to your conservative government. That said, I don't feel sorry for the public because of this, instead they have the police service and government that they deserve, they voted them in! I only feel sorry for my colleagues.

Edited 12 October, 2015 by mdon

[Chriswright03]

Thanks for your openness and honesty.  It reflects what my views are and will no doubt frighten many but I think communities really need to be told the truth and then something 'may' be done.

[domhnall]

 

As for merging forces?  That will be done to make them financially viable and again is nothing to do with effectiveness.  How can a force managed by someone 200 miles away know what happens in your area?  If you liken it to the little corner shop that you could go into and they knew what you wanted and had it for you plus they knew your name and the names of all your family compared to the Supermarket who will tell you what it is that you want.  Supermarket will save you money but you won't get a service like you did.

 

 

that's the sort of size we had with the old regional forces in some cases - Northern Constabulary covered an area larger than Belgium and that was just one of the local authorities on its patch. The total force area was huge. 

 

Now Police Scotland cover 35% of the UK and they are being slammed for being too big. The politicians chose that way rather than cutting numbers. They got rid of 8 HR departments, 8 IT departments etc etc 

 

Officer numbers in 2015 are 17,272 whereas in 2007 there were 16,234 police officers. http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime-Justice/PublicationPoliceStrength

 

 

I merely posted this to highlight the different approaches taken between the two countries. In both the public and the police are unhappy. 

[Chriswright03]

Yes I appreciate there are substantial differences North of the border and I apologise if it looked like I was challenging what you say. I wasn't.  I was merely stating in England the situation as I see it.  I have not experienced life in the force under such management so can only say what I think it would be like.  Local knowledge is key in Policing and whilst of course local officers would have that knowledge the Chief Officers and those advising would not and as such are unlikely to have a true understanding of issues or how people are affected in such large areas.

 

Sort of reminds me of design by committee and we all know how that turns out!

[Chriswright03]

Related to the topic but a bit of a rant as well.  Whilst out walking the dog my wife found a wallet this morning.  Brought it back home and it has a fiver in it, quite a few credit/debit cards and a driving licence.  The owner isn't local so we decided to drop it into the Police Station sometime today.  As we were not planning on doing it immediately I rang Lincolnshire Police on 101 and explained what had happened and was told we do not take reports of lost or found property on the phone so either do it on line or take it into your local Police Station.

 

I thought if the Police knew it had been found then the owner if he rung them would be aware and would not have to go to the hassle of cancelling all of his cards.  Anyway obviously that is too much trouble to take the details on the phone.

 

So to the local nick which opens at 9am only to be told we don't take found property now.  They suggested 'we' should take the cards to the Banks so they can destroy them as that is what the owner will be concerned about.  Err no don't think I am going to spend my time doing that!  They have our details and if the owner does report it to them they will let him know where it is but if he doesn't in 28 days we can keep the fiver!

 

So basically other than a 25 mile round trip at my expense to call at the address on the Driving Licence which may not even be current I shall just have to keep it to see if he gets in touch.

 

Appalling!

[Paul007]

"the whole place is inhabited by Civilian employees who form part of the huge effort to consume the entire rainforests of the globe with the amount of paperwork that they generate."

 

That's a bit harsh, especially as most of it is not done on paper anymore.