w10 - giving it away hasn't worked ?

[VWD]

Windows 7 runs on 55% of all the computers on the planet, but according to news this week that is actually a bad and potentially dangerous thing. Says who? Actually Microsoft MSFT -1.82%…

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/01/02/microsoft-windows-7-problems/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp

 

 

 

Windows 10 ends 2015 with less than 10 percent of the desktop operating system market

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/windows-10-ends-2015-less-180817529.html

 

What do the IT gents say ?

[gullyg]

Well first of all I would seriously question "55% of all computers run Windows 7", but that depends on what you class as a computer.

With regards to pure win7 versus win10 I actually prefer Windows 10. The issue I have with 10 is the stupid installed apps other than that I really like it. But then I liked win8.1 as long as you ignored the full screen apps it was quicker than win7.

I don't know what the numbers are but I suspect a lot of the reason Windows 10 isn't picking up is business. Corporate IT don't generally like upgrading to the latest and greatest.

[VWD]

I'd agree on that. But a lot of businesses/Corporates have gotten to be wary of the latest software, and the costs to train staff in using the latest OS/ Office stuff still it's been proven to work and accepted by other industry. Especially after the W8/8.1 fiasco. And then there's MS history of failures. We had 95, then two versions of 98 ,then Enterprise /W2K and then XP. Then there was VISTA- NASTY, and then W8, NASTIER. So before business /Corporates invest in a  new OS, they want to be certain that it will last more than a few years. How many firms have upgraded to higher than Office 2003,which was an upgrade to office 2000 and didn't need any extra training. I've got a trial copy of Office 2007. I tried it and decided it was not for me. I'd suspect a lot of firms and their secretarial staff have done likewise. Old engineering maxim, is if not broken- don't waste time fixing it. That's W10& LATER EDITIONS OF oFFICE TO ME.

[Scribbler]

I'd agree on that. But a lot of businesses/Corporates have gotten to be wary of the latest software, and the costs to train staff in using the latest OS/ Office stuff still it's been proven to work and accepted by other industry. Especially after the W8/8.1 fiasco. And then there's MS history of failures. We had 95, then two versions of 98 ,then Enterprise /W2K and then XP. Then there was VISTA- NASTY, and then W8, NASTIER. So before business /Corporates invest in a  new OS, they want to be certain that it will last more than a few years. How many firms have upgraded to higher than Office 2003,which was an upgrade to office 2000 and didn't need any extra training. I've got a trial copy of Office 2007. I tried it and decided it was not for me. I'd suspect a lot of firms and their secretarial staff have done likewise. Old engineering maxim, is if not broken- don't waste time fixing it. That's W10& LATER EDITIONS OF oFFICE TO ME.

 

You forgot to mention the greatest MS disaster of all time Windows Me (Millenium). But i would forget it aswell if i still didn't have nightmares as a young tech installing loads of PC's in a solicitors only to find they all installed every printer in the building automatically and killed the internet trying to find drivers. without me instructing them to do anything other than connect to the domain. 

 

That said Windows 10 is great apart from the aforementioned obsession with calling everything 'apps' instead of programs to be cool and down with the kids who have iphones. Even I as an old git who is resistant to change have got used to typing in Cortana the name of the program i want to run. And on occation if im feeling particularly brave or tipsy i ask her verbally for things. ;-)

Edited 3 January, 2016 by Scribbler

[gullyg]

You forgot to mention the greatest MS disaster of all time Windows Me (Millenium). But i would forget it aswell if i still didn't have nightmares as a young tech installing loads of PC's in a solicitors only to find they all installed every printer in the building automatically and killed the internet trying to find drivers. without me instructing them to do anything other than connect to the domain.

That said Windows 10 is great apart from the aforementioned obsession with calling everything 'apps' instead of programs to be cool and down with the kids who have iphones. Even I as an old git who is resistant to change have got used to typing in Cortana the name of the program i want to run. And on occation if im feeling particularly brave or tipsy i ask her verbally for things. ;-)

Oh man I'd forgot about ME - thanks for that . Mind I remember 98 to be a bit of a lemon as well, 98se was ok.

A lot of people didn't like 2000 but I really liked it.

XP wasn't great until Sp1 from memory. People seem to think xp was brilliant but it had a long time to mature.

Vista I quite liked but I custom built a pc for it. IMHO the bit problem with vista was bit box shifters selling "visa ready" machine with nowhere near the right spec.

We mainly use a mix of 7 and 8.1 on our "personal" machines at work. I upgraded to 8.1 as soon as it was available and will do the same with 10.

With regards to the searching for apps, been doing that for a long time even in 7. I mainly use OSX at home as a "desktop" OS (ie on my laptop) it's been a great feature of OSX (spotlight) ever since Apple got the idea from Sherlock.

[biomulv]

Oh man I'd forgot about ME - thanks for that . Mind I remember 98 to be a bit of a lemon as well, 98se was ok.

A lot of people didn't like 2000 but I really liked it.

XP wasn't great until Sp1 from memory. People seem to think xp was brilliant but it had a long time to mature.

Vista I quite liked but I custom built a pc for it. IMHO the bit problem with vista was bit box shifters selling "visa ready" machine with nowhere near the right spec.

We mainly use a mix of 7 and 8.1 on our "personal" machines at work. I upgraded to 8.1 as soon as it was available and will do the same with 10.

With regards to the searching for apps, been doing that for a long time even in 7. I mainly use OSX at home as a "desktop" OS (ie on my laptop) it's been a great feature of OSX (spotlight) ever since Apple got the idea from Sherlock.

 

Ha, I had exposure to a Win2000 box just a few weeks ago.  Brought some memories back.

[mac11irl]

Oh man I'd forgot about ME - thanks for that . Mind I remember 98 to be a bit of a lemon as well, 98se was ok.

A lot of people didn't like 2000 but I really liked it.

XP wasn't great until Sp1 from memory. People seem to think xp was brilliant but it had a long time to mature.

Vista I quite liked but I custom built a pc for it. IMHO the bit problem with vista was bit box shifters selling "visa ready" machine with nowhere near the right spec.

We mainly use a mix of 7 and 8.1 on our "personal" machines at work. I upgraded to 8.1 as soon as it was available and will do the same with 10.

With regards to the searching for apps, been doing that for a long time even in 7. I mainly use OSX at home as a "desktop" OS (ie on my laptop) it's been a great feature of OSX (spotlight) ever since Apple got the idea from Sherlock.

i have to agree with the bit box dealers comment on vista.. my MIL bought a laptop, following advice from her BIL with vista from Dell. But.. she made the mistake of asking what she should go with and then unfortunately not parting with the cash when ordering.. ended up with a low spec laptop that felt like it was on life support from the day she took it out of box.

she specced it down as " she only wanted something basic to learn on" and since felt incompetent when tryimg to learn how to do stuff (she was 58 and never used computers much prior) because she would start something,the laptop would take an age to repond, she would redo what shed done during the hang, and then not know why it had undone/double dine whatver she wanted to do. Drove her demented. I bought her a tab (some what specced up, future proofed galaxy tab 3) on behalf of her 4 adult kids inc swmbo a ouple of years ago and she has learned waay more since and feels much happier about it.

[swedishskoda]

Since Microsoft has guaranteed support for Win7 til 2020, it's not a big surprise that users - especially business/offices - wait a little. Window's history is a mix of success and failure. My personal opinion:

Win95 (and NT4.0): great - stable and reliable

Win98: No improvement over 95 - rather the other way round

2000: OK

ME: disaster

XP: stable and reliable

Vista: tiresome

Win7: stable and reliable

Win8: maybe good for tablets, but rather pointless on a desktop or laptop

Win10: OK, but I don't like having to give up control over the update/upgrade process. Nor do I like the trend towards "cloud-based" computing (e.g. Office365) which actually means that access to my files can be bought and sold, plus that server7network breakdowns can make them inaccessible.

 

I've made the jump to Win10 on one of my PCs at home - Linux on the others.

[Chris GB]

I think the biggest problem facing MS is that the giveaway is an “upgrade”. I'm guessing, from what I have tried and the experience of others I know, that a very large proportion of users experience serious issues with the upgrade and go back to 7/8.

For me W10 won't allow me to install an earlier driver for my Nvidia card, the current one is completely unstable and freezes the machine every minute or two, same as the most up to date driver did in W7. But with W7 I could force an earlier, stable driver. W10 is just another MS OS trying to be too clever.

IMO, MS have made three good OS, DOS7.2 W2K and W7. The rest have tried to do more than they really should, leading to problems.

[Scribbler]

I think the biggest problem facing MS is that the giveaway is an “upgrade”. I'm guessing, from what I have tried and the experience of others I know, that a very large proportion of users experience serious issues with the upgrade and go back to 7/8.

For me W10 won't allow me to install an earlier driver for my Nvidia card, the current one is completely unstable and freezes the machine every minute or two, same as the most up to date driver did in W7. But with W7 I could force an earlier, stable driver. W10 is just another MS OS trying to be too clever.

IMO, MS have made three good OS, DOS7.2 W2K and W7. The rest have tried to do more than they really should, leading to problems.

 

I wouldn't say W7 or 2K were better than XP sp1-2 but I agree someone needs to tell MS sometimes less is more. All though 10 is technically an upgrade you can install as a fresh install as long as the PC is eligible. I find most peoples issues are with the upgrade process a fresh install normally cures these.

[gadgetman]

I think the issue is the drive to cloud computing. It's still quite risky for big corps to suddenly have parts of their data in the cloud just waiting to be grabbed via a hack or vulnerability.

Windows 10 AIU you cannot completely turn off every bit of cloud dumping even using offline/non Microsoft account profiles.

I'd imagine many businesses are still going through their risk assessment for Windows 10 before deploying.

[Scribbler]

I think the issue is the drive to cloud computing. It's still quite risky for big corps to suddenly have parts of their data in the cloud just waiting to be grabbed via a hack or vulnerability.

Windows 10 AIU you cannot completely turn off every bit of cloud dumping even using offline/non Microsoft account profiles.

I'd imagine many businesses are still going through their risk assessment for Windows 10 before deploying.

 

 

Can you not control windows updates with WSUS anymore on windows 10?

[gadgetman]

I think some updates are now compulsory. It'll be in the terms no one read

[VWD]

You forgot to mention the greatest MS disaster of all time Windows Me (Millenium). But i would forget it aswell if i still didn't have nightmares as a young tech installing loads of PC's in a solicitors only to find they all installed every printer in the building automatically and killed the internet trying to find drivers. without me instructing them to do anything other than connect to the domain. 

 

That said Windows 10 is great apart from the aforementioned obsession with calling everything 'apps' instead of programs to be cool and down with the kids who have iphones. Even I as an old git who is resistant to change have got used to typing in Cortana the name of the program i want to run. And on occation if im feeling particularly brave or tipsy i ask her verbally for things. ;-)

I'd forgotten about the Windows disaster known as windings ME.Similar to Vista/ W8/8.1.

[swedishskoda]

AIU updates are mandatory in Win10 Home, can be postponed/deferred for some time in Win10 Pro. Only Win 10 Enterprise gives you full control.

See http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-stop-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-home-windows-10-professional-3626701/

[gadgetman]

I'd forgotten about the Windows disaster known as windings ME.Similar to Vista/ W8/8.1.

8.1 just tried to force everyone into a touchscreen environment before touchscreen is the norm. It'll be at least 5 years before the majority of hardware is touch screen.

Windows 10 is a great half way house between windows 7 & earlier and windows 8 for those without touchscreen laptops

[Scribbler]

8.1 just tried to force everyone into a touchscreen environment before touchscreen is the norm. It'll be at least 5 years before the majority of hardware is touch screen.

Windows 10 is a great half way house between windows 7 & earlier and windows 8 for those without touchscreen laptops

 

Touch screen 'might' become the norm for home use but never in a business environment. All the major changes in High End Workstations With advanced graphics and complex user input are pioneered and led by design and engineering departments. For this reason i would say Leap style gesture control might become the norm once this generation of keyboard warriors starts to retire. Tony Stark Iron Man Style. Touch screens will be consigned to P.O.S and cash machines etc.

[swedishskoda]

A few helpful tips that at least partially restricts automatic updates:

http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/stop-automatic-driver-updates-windows-10

[Chris GB]

Let's look at it another way. If W10 where any good, or any significant improvement over previous versions, Microsoft would be charging money for it, not giving it away.

The fact that take up of the free issue is poor tells us that it is not great also.

Edited 5 January, 2016 by Chris GB

[swedishskoda]

Let's look at it another way. If W10 where any good, or any significant improvement over previous versions, Microsoft would be charging money for it, not giving it away.

The fact that take up of the free issue is poor tells us that it is not great also.

Yes and no. I guess that MS finds it valuable gaining control over users' systems through the more or less mandatory updates. It's an irritating trend that the big software developers inists on guessing/telling users what they ought to do. Google and the latest Android versions are worrying examples. Soon (Android Nutella?) Google will take over and choose what phone number you should call.

If MS wants to increase their cash flow, they always have the power to force users to update (and pay) by terminating support/security updates, so we should be grateful that they've promised to keep Win7 supported till 2020.

[Aspman]

Meh most people don't upgrade. They just use what they have until it it so filled with crud it hardly works then they buy a new one.

 

Also a lot of people are giving up on the idea of a PC/Laptop and just use tablets and phones..

 

I do agree that to some extent MS seems to be doing everything they can to **** off their users.

 

You won't see any great shift to W10 until the enterprises move across which always takes a long time. W8 wasn't suitable for work, W10 is more so but there are still some things under the hood that don't make a lot of sense from an enterprise point of view.

 

W8 phone should have been a bit seller in enterprises but MS have set it up in such a way to make it quite tricky to use properly. They're just stuck in a mindset of chasing Apple and Google rather than trying to make their work in their own way.

[gac]

Let's look at it another way. If W10 where any good, or any significant improvement over previous versions, Microsoft would be charging money for it, not giving it away.

The fact that take up of the free issue is poor tells us that it is not great also.

 

Not necessarily true - don't forget that they can increase profits by making savings as well as income. For example they recently decreed that IE11 is the only version of IE that will receive any more updates, ever. So the teams/staff members that were previously keeping 9 and 10 afloat now don't need to do that and can either move to another area of the business avoiding unnecessary recruitment, or be made redundant avoiding unnecessary salaries. By getting people onto Windows 10 they're moving to a new way of rolling out features/patches which mean that once a critical mass is on there they can pull Windows 7 support in 2020 (and 8 probably not too long afterwards) and streamline their OS support greatly in a similar way. It also means that hopefully they'll do a better job with their product due to "streamlining the lineup", which has positive effects on their perceived quality.

[kilted]

Meh most people don't upgrade. They just use what they have until it it so filled with crud it hardly works then they buy a new one.

 

Also a lot of people are giving up on the idea of a PC/Laptop and just use tablets and phones..Agreed - most people other than "geeks" just want the computer to "do stuff" without worrying about what it is running eg my parents, MIL etc. Those of us that are actually interested in what it is running are a minority.

 

I do agree that to some extent MS seems to be doing everything they can to **** off their users.

 

You won't see any great shift to W10 until the enterprises move across which always takes a long time. W8 wasn't suitable for work, W10 is more so but there are still some things under the hood that don't make a lot of sense from an enterprise point of view. The shift to a new OS is always a slow one for business as most larger businesses are on a rolling program where PC's get replaced every x years (this can be extended when they have a very stable platform like WinXP which a lot of internal software has been coded for or where budgets are being cut). For example my department at work have just made it to Win 7 due to a combination of the above which means that Win 10 will be a long way off. Smaller SME type businesses will only tend to upgrade if there is a business need as the cash is better spent on other operational needs.

 

W8 phone should have been a bit seller in enterprises but MS have set it up in such a way to make it quite tricky to use properly. They're just stuck in a mindset of chasing Apple and Google rather than trying to make their work in their own way.

Comments in red.

[gadgetman]

Let's look at it another way. If W10 where any good, or any significant improvement over previous versions, Microsoft would be charging money for it, not giving it away.

The fact that take up of the free issue is poor tells us that it is not great also.

Business largely ignored windows 8 and with a move to cloud based applications. Microsoft are trying to move everyone they can onto it and then make money from rolling updates rather than paying for a new version of office etc when it comes out.

[Scribbler]

Business largely ignored windows 8 and with a move to cloud based applications. Microsoft are trying to move everyone they can onto it and then make money from rolling updates rather than paying for a new version of office etc when it comes out.

 

I think might be geographical, a 'Londonism' Most of our large Customers & suppliers based inside the M25 use the cloud but the same can't be said for Firms outside.

A lot of the UK still doesn't have the Network performance to support cloud based services.

 

I think the jump to the next Ops system largely depends on how many software vendors are in Microsoft pocket. For example we use Dassault Systems for our 3D design software. They insist on their customers using the latest or previous ops system So at the minute only 7, 8 & 10 are supported at the next release which is annual only 8 and 10 will be supported. They stopped supporting 32 bit and XP a few years back. I'm sure by doing this they must get a kickback from Microsoft. If we migrate our Design team onto Windows 7/10 It makes sense to do everyone in the company to avoid multiple configurations of everything. We are led by this otherwise we would all still be on XP.