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Haldex Clutch Pump


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I think you have a good case as you logged the first fault within the warranty period. There is such a difference between dealers and a good one is worth hanging onto. My dealer replaced the Haldex within days of the warranty expiring as at the service they had seen a small oil leak that they could not account for. Such a difference to your experience sadly.

Like you I'm of a certain age and have had dealers with a similar attitude to yours. I really hope you manage to get it sorted without to much hassle but if it comes to it stick to your guns you've got nothing to lose.

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Just found and read the article by Voxmagna about the Haldex pump and filter with pictures!!! Brilliant well done.

 

One question what does the filter filter out of the oil?? as you say it is supposed to be a 'for life filter' what time scale is this ?bit of an open ended statement that.

 

Did you see any small paticles or anything that would make you say that this filter does need to be binned and a new one fitted?

 

Last question why does the Haldex oil need to be changed after  3 years or xthousand miles? power steering  oil used to go on for years without being changed just a top up in the tank under the lid if needed. I had an autobox Saab many years ago and that never had the oil changed in the box whilst i had the car for 5 years and i did over 110000 miles.

 

Ita all a bit odd.

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Just found and read the article by Voxmagna about the Haldex pump and filter with pictures!!! Brilliant well done.

 

One question what does the filter filter out of the oil?? as you say it is supposed to be a 'for life filter' what time scale is this ?bit of an open ended statement that.

 

Did you see any small paticles or anything that would make you say that this filter does need to be binned and a new one fitted?

 

Last question why does the Haldex oil need to be changed after  3 years or xthousand miles? power steering  oil used to go on for years without being changed just a top up in the tank under the lid if needed. I had an autobox Saab many years ago and that never had the oil changed in the box whilst i had the car for 5 years and i did over 110000 miles.

 

Ita all a bit odd.

 

 

No, not really. As I understand it, the unit is a 7 plate sintered metal "wet" clutch. So it's not an auto/torque drive sort of thing, nor is it like a hydraulic power steering pump, which merely pushes fluid round in circlesl

 

The plates are spring tensioned/loaded to take up any slack to give immediate response, which gives rise to the ?% drive to the rear wheels in "normal" driving conditions. This means they slip a lot and hence probably wear slightly - so any bits might be clutch plate debris. The Haldex fluid seems to have to work hard, so I guess replacement fluid is probably a wise move.

Don't forget, it's not an on/off situation - the various ecu's  progressively tighten the clutch pressure on demand, although the process might be quiet rapid in a demanding situation. Clever bit of kit, which is probably why Borg Warner bought it and cheapened it Gen V.

 

Just my understanding of Haldex IV data if you read it carefully.

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Not really. From the US, so postage will be enormous and on top of an inflated price,   :sweat:

 

Mine cost £33 from my local Volvo dealer last week.

Have you got a part number for this Volvo filter. I tried buying one at Skoda yesterday but they had no knowledge of any filter within the Haldex, they even showed me their part diagrams which neglect to itemise it.

 

I've been putting up with FWD for some time now (sporadic clutch failure error) and yesterday I figured I'd investigate by dropping the oil and checking the condition of the filter. The fluid that came out of the drain point was very clean. I then removed the Haldex pump and got some fairly grey oil out of here. The pump has a half moon shaped screen filter on the end and on mine it was completely covered in a grey paste which would have been impeding the oil flow. I then pulled the main filter (the one that doesn't exist) and it had the same grey paste the screen filter was covered in.

 

Long story short, I cleaned the filters, refitted them and filled up with fresh oil. Today it has been pouring with rain so I had an excellent opportunity to test it and my 4WD has returned to normal functionality :clap: who knows how long it'll stay this way but for now I'm happy that I don't have the understeering monster  :D 

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My Haldex fault code is back!

The dealership informed me that the scan was a legal document and that they couldn't let me have a copy!...Despite agreeing that the Haldex error code did exist using their scanning equipment they also informed me that I risked invalidating my warranty by doing a scan of my own using my VAG VCDS cable (Genuine Ross-Tech using 15.7.4 version, not a Chinese knock off)

I haven't scanned it since the dealer reset the codes, but the car goes into the dealership again on Wednesday so I'll see what the outcome is..I can understand that they probably get owners who do performance mods to their cars, but with my 61st birthday coming up this week, I'm hardly some boy racer with brightly coloured brake calipers, vacuum gauges and blow off valves hissing at every gear change..I drive like a saint   :angel:

 
The car is just out of warranty by about 6 weeks and goes into the dealership on Tuesday 22/8/2016. I'm hoping I don't have a bun fight with the dealer on getting this rectified out of warranty although when I notified them it was within the warranty period.
I've raised a report with Volkswagen Customer Care to cover my arse so watch this space.

 

 I'm pleased to say that I received a phone call from the dealership and Skoda have agreed to replace the pump..I now have to wait for it to arrive from Germany and they promise that it will be fitted as soon as it arrives along with replacement fluid.

They also gave me a copy of the diagnostic readout confirming what my VCDS had already picked up on. You could say that I feel a little less concerned and I was impressed with 2 people at the dealership who delivered what they promised, namely keeping me in the loop!

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Have you got a part number for this Volvo filter. I tried buying one at Skoda yesterday but they had no knowledge of any filter within the Haldex, they even showed me their part diagrams which neglect to itemise it.

 

I've been putting up with FWD for some time now (sporadic clutch failure error) and yesterday I figured I'd investigate by dropping the oil and checking the condition of the filter. The fluid that came out of the drain point was very clean. I then removed the Haldex pump and got some fairly grey oil out of here. The pump has a half moon shaped screen filter on the end and on mine it was completely covered in a grey paste which would have been impeding the oil flow. I then pulled the main filter (the one that doesn't exist) and it had the same grey paste the screen filter was covered in.

 

Long story short, I cleaned the filters, refitted them and filled up with fresh oil. Today it has been pouring with rain so I had an excellent opportunity to test it and my 4WD has returned to normal functionality :clap: who knows how long it'll stay this way but for now I'm happy that I don't have the understeering monster  :D

 

Part number 31325173 - £33.12 in UK money.

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  • 4 months later...

MY12 Yeti  (50k) Gen4 Haldex oil and filter was clean when i looked at it a few months ago. VCDS now flags the open circuit pump motor fault others have reported and reports voltage but no current taken by the motor.

 

I'm hoping there are some 'outside the box' engineer types like me that can post up hard info. on the Gen4 Haldex. Has anybody looked at the wiring, are there connectors which might go bad? Has anybody removed a pump motor and gone inside? I'm curious to know if this is the kind of motor with flimsy brushes that is going to shout 'unreliable' at me or have they been clever and put an over temperature cut out in the armature windings? or are their motor brushes small soft rubbish, or have they got open ventilation which dumps crap on the motor armature, or is the motor electronically commutated.

 

It looks like I'm going to have to get inside and do the autopsy myself when the weather warms up, but any help towards the end goal of explaining the failure and a possible fault cure would be appreciated. Since I do this kind of work myself, I don't keep it secret if it helps others!

 

Along with other VAG parts, the Haldex pumps seem to have high reported failures on discussion forums and it would be nice to find out how they fail and why. If Skoda put in a badly designed or unreliable part, I don't want to replace it with the same

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It's not in this discussion thread which has had a lot of views with vcds results from others the same as mine - pump motor open circuit. Looks like I'll be biting my own bullet and tearing it apart. The Haldex control unit is fed from the same fused power source as the dash panel (which is o.k) and unless the pump drivers in the control unit have failed I'm betting my control unit is o.k because vcds still reports normal valve behaviour. I just need some warm weather to check the motor resistance with an ohm meter first, weather too risky to start anything at the mo. Still, it's a shame Yeti 4WD won't be available for me at the time of year when it could be most needed.

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MY12 Yeti (50k) Gen4 Haldex oil and filter was clean when i looked at it a few months ago. VCDS now flags the open circuit pump motor fault others have reported and reports voltage but no current taken by the motor.

I'm hoping there are some 'outside the box' engineer types like me that can post up hard info. on the Gen4 Haldex. Has anybody looked at the wiring, are there connectors which might go bad? Has anybody removed a pump motor and gone inside? I'm curious to know if this is the kind of motor with flimsy brushes that is going to shout 'unreliable' at me or have they been clever and put an over temperature cut out in the armature windings? or are their motor brushes small soft rubbish, or have they got open ventilation which dumps crap on the motor armature, or is the motor electronically commutated.

It looks like I'm going to have to get inside and do the autopsy myself when the weather warms up, but any help towards the end goal of explaining the failure and a possible fault cure would be appreciated. Since I do this kind of work myself, I don't keep it secret if it helps others!

Along with other VAG parts, the Haldex pumps seem to have high reported failures on discussion forums and it would be nice to find out how they fail and why. If Skoda put in a badly designed or unreliable part, I don't want to replace it with the same

Have you removed the pump itself and had a look at it?

The gauze in the lower region is normally filled with gunge, even if the oil and filter are in good condition.

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I noticed something when looking at photos for a replacement pump (which I didn't need). My OE pump has a very shallow strainer fitted on the far end as per photo. But I noticed the same pump with a much larger nylon filter. It's too late now to check the housing depth behind the pump and see if a longer filter would fit in the space.

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Question, if I may: where does the crud come from?  I understood the Haldex to be basically a sealed system.  Is there a route whereby dirt can get in somewhere, or is it all just coming from internal wear?

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I haven't been inside the mechanics. But from what I could see and feel it is the kind of soft grey sludge you can get from decomposing epdm rubber brake lines seen in a brake master cylinder or from wear on seals with rotating shafts. I couldn't find many metal particles.  It didn't look like extenal road dirt contamination either. I haven't seen this in gearboxes or diffs so I suspect it comes from components used inside the Haldex clutch. MY12 Yeti had done about 50k miles.

 

The motor filter wasn't completely blocked with sludge and I don't believe the sludge that was present contributed to bad brush contact. The pump is a gear pump and as long as there is some oil to wet internal parts, the pump and motor should be o.k to run off load or with a blocked inlet.  However, it looks as though the main filter doesn't trap it completely and the fine stuff in the oil falls to the lowest point which is the pump. If the sludge is from internal epdm parts, they might be wearing or decomposing in the the oil?

 

I have unanswered questions in my head: 1. How does anybody know if their Yeti AWD is inoperative? 2. Is there a simple test or check when used mainly on road? 3. What is the normal duty cycle for the pump motor - is it infrequent or runs a lot? 4. What is the maximum motor current when delivering pressure? I understand the pump can deliver 4 Bar which is pretty high and expect the 1 amp off load current I measured to be much higher in service. VCDS does have a pump motor current measuring block. I will hook up diagnostics, take it for a drive and see what happens under acceleration. I think I know how to fool the diagnostics motor current check at start up to give the motor a chance to start without locking out and it is possible to add a d.c Hall effect current sensor to the pump wire to run a led in the cockpit. Other than that I am out of ideas.

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Thanks for that further information.

 

1. How does anybody know if their Yeti AWD is inoperative? 2. Is there a simple test or check when used mainly on road?

 

The only way I know of is to check for fault codes via the ODB port - not exactly user-friendly for the average punter.  It appears that a fault light might be a useful thing to have: I my view anything that is supposed to "just work" should really have a means to alert you if it can't.

 

3. What is the normal duty cycle for the pump motor - is it infrequent or runs a lot? 

 

 

My understanding is that the generation 4 Haldex in the Yeti relies on there always being pressure in the system to operate the clutch; this being how it manages to react quicker to wheel slippage than the previous versions.  What this might mean in terms of the duty cycle of the pump - if anything - I have no idea.

Edited by ejstubbs
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Simple AWD test? and the one used on the Volvo XC90 forums (the XC90 uses an almost identical setup) is to plonk the front wheels on a wet grassy slope with the rears still on the tarmac/road etc, and floor the throttle, if the front wheels just spin, then you only have 2WD operational. However if the car then tries to push/pull you up the slope also using the rear wheels then the Haldex unit is operational.

 

Hope that helps.

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