Update Of Bluetooth Connectivity To Modern Mobiles

[Bretwalda]

My 2010 Superb Combi 2 Elegance has the RNS510 ICE and Bluetooth hands-free connectivity, controlled from the steering wheel switches.  However it only appears to be able to connect with a range of mobile 'phones that were around at the time the car was made.  None of the more modern phones can be connected, or so I am told.  My elderly Nokia C1-01 is reaching the end of its legs and I want to replace it with something more capable, although while in the car I am prepared to settle for only making calls through the phone, if that is all that can be achieved.

 

To my simple mind, it ought to be possible to replace the existing (2010) Bluetooth module with a more recent model that will use all the existing hardware (microphone, cable loom, steering wheel controls etc) yet connect using the latest version Bluetooth protocol to the latest mobile 'phones.  The variations between the old and new Bluetooth protocols largely involve software changes so this ought to be possible. However I have not been successful in finding any VAG information on how I can keep my car and still be able to use a more modern 'phone in hands-free mode.  It seems that the VAG attitude is that I should either buy a new car or replace the RNS510 system completely.  Seems a very expensive solution to a very low-tech problem.

 

Since the RNS510 is used in a wide range of VAG vehicles, not just Skoda, I can't believe the story I am being given that there is no alternative in-house.  There used to be stories about very rich people changing their cars because the ash trays were full, but changing your car whenever you replace your phone seems almost as bad. Can anyone help?

 

Forgot to add the Module ID - it is 3C8035730A

Edited 6 January, 2016 by Bretwalda

[KBPhoto]

Long question; short answer: Yes.

[KBPhoto]

Effectively there are two connection protocols to consider: rSAP (remote SIM something Protocol) and HFP (Hands Free Protocol).

Some phones, and modules, use one or the other while some use both. One protocol gives you some features while the other gives you different features.

Knowing what your phone uses is the first step.

Buying the right module is the (harder) second step.

Changing the module is the third and easiest step. It should be under the driver's seat (if factory fitted) and simply unplugs, slides out and needs replacing.

[Bretwalda]

Good evening KBPhoto.  Thank you for that answer, but it is a little too short for me.  Can you tell me if it is possible just to replace the module, say with the -D suffix, and retain all the original usability AND connect to more modern phones?

[Bretwalda]

Sorry for that, our two posts crossed - we were both typing at the same time.  My module is under the driver's seat and is easily removed.  Normally when I insert the ignition key, the phone connects automatically and its ID appears in the multipoint display, followed by the usual signal strength bars, the name of the network to which I have connected and either Premium or 3G, whatever is appropriate for the area. My phonebook was downloaded on the first occasion and, using the steering wheel controls, I can select anyone in the book, press a button on the wheel and make a call.  Thereafter it is hands free until the call is ended, by either party.  Received texts can be read either on the multipoint or the RNS510 display but can only be sent from the RNS510.  I would like to keep all that but want to change my steam Nokia for a more modern device.  Hope I  have made myself clear this time. ps I suspect my current phone and the module both use RSAP but my ignorance of the subject is almost absolute.

Edited 6 January, 2016 by Bretwalda

[KBPhoto]

I'll not advise you on which specific module to buy as there are so many to choose from. And you have not identified your phone...

Have a look on the Ross Tech Wiki, Google your phone and VW BT module, search this forum for your phone.

Between those three you should have a pretty good answer.

Once you have the one for you, it'll Plug'n'Play so to speak. Depending upon what functionality you currently have and what protocol you can use with your phone, you may well find that you have extra functions available (text messages displaying on the HU display, Wi-Fi hotspot, etc.)

Choosing the right module IS the hard part.

What functionality do you want (apart from being able to make phone calls with a modern phone)?

Edited 6 January, 2016 by KBPhoto

[Bretwalda]

Thank you again.  I hope I understand what you are telling me!  Is Ross Tech on this site or found via Google.  Sorry to be thick but I am 77 next week and I am still getting used to phone's not being attached to the wall and radios having valves.

[KBPhoto]

No problem. I'm deliberately not recommending a module as I have got it wrong once before...

What phone are you thinking of getting?

From this we can work out what protocol it uses and either eliminate certain modules (Apple phones only use HFP) or move to the next stage.

What functionality do you want? Phone calls? Phone and music streaming? Phone, music and text messages? Phone, music, text, Wi-Fi hotspot?

From this we can narrow down the choice of module to probably one or three which will all work and give you what you want.

I'm happy to help as I am also looking for a module myself; Just in case I move away from Apple...

[KBPhoto]

This is the (non-exhaustive) list of BT modules on the Ross Tech Wiki: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Telephone_Retrofitting

[Bretwalda]

It seems as though the suffix -D module will handle Android phones, which covers most of the popular makes and (if I have got it right) the suffix -E will also handle the latest Apple products - iPhone 69, 6S etc.  As I don't feel like splashing out more than half a grand on an iPhone, the -D will probably do me.  I have gone on line to a Skoda distributor to see if I am right and I will let you know.  I don't need the Wi-Fi hotspot facility but want to keep the hands-free phone and the text capability.

[eyegr]

rSAP protocol means that your mobile phone relays your SIM card information to a GSM tranceiver built-in to your car, which also have a GSM antenna on the roof. This setup gives you very good signal reception and also the ability to read SMS messages directly to your MFD/HU. This also means that your mobile phone is effectively bypassed when it is connected to your car and you will lose 3G/DATA connection to it. This protocol is not very well supported by modern smartphones.

HFP protocol means that your mobile phone only relays audio and phonebook data to the car. Everything else work as usual, i.e. signal reception, 3G/DATA etc. This protocol is supported by nearly all mobile phones, at least regarding the hands free calls part. Usually the phonebook and call log is also transferred so you can see a caller name on the dash, and sometimes music is also relayed via A2DP (this requires HU support).

 

If you ask me, get an HFP bluetooth module. I can't advise which fits your car, but I guess any recent one will do the job. The rSAP one is only good if you travel a lot and have very very bad reception.

[KBPhoto]

Seems like good advise from eyegr.

Do consider whether you need audio streaming (A2DP) as not all modules support it and I expect one that doesn't would be cheaper.

There are also two basic designs of module: the metal box and the black plastic box. I don't see any consistent functional difference between them, so look at both. Although the metal cage which holds the module in place is different between the two and would be an extra cost.

However, I ordered the cheaper one (for a metal box) and managed to make the plastic box fix securely to the mount. I did this principally so I could have the fabric cover to the cage rather than the plastic cover.

Have a look on the Skodateile website in the Octavia section to see what they look like.

[langers2k]

Hold on, I might be missing something but if I've read the part number you posted correctly then you should already have support for a2dp, rsap and hfp - at least according to rosstechs site.

There should be no difference between the A rev and D or E rev's when it comes to supported phones as all three support the same Bluetooth protocols.

This means there is little point in changing the module as you don't want WiFi

[eyegr]

Hold on, I might be missing something but if I've read the part number you posted correctly then you should already have support for a2dp, rsap and hfp - at least according to rosstechs site.

There should be no difference between the A rev and D or E rev's when it comes to supported phones as all three support the same Bluetooth protocols.

This means there is little point in changing the module as you don't want WiFi

If what's on ross tech is accurate, then I would suggest to the OP to go on and replace his ageing Nokia with a modern Android device. He will then be able to actually select which protocol to use, rSAP or HFP. rSAP may not be available on his phone, but there are solutions. In any case everything should work without replacing the BT module.

[J306TD]

The bluetooth phonebook app is very good. Any issues can be logged and emailed to very efficient and polite CS

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk

[eyegr]

The bluetooth phonebook app is very good. Any issues can be logged and emailed to very efficient and polite CS

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk

A little bit off-topic, but I second that: For people storing contacts in a different typeface than Latin, Cyrillic and Chinese (like Greek for example), using Bluetooth Phonebook is the only option for displaying these names on the Maxidot, as it can do on-the-fly transliteration to Latin. Brilliant.

[langers2k]

If what's on ross tech is accurate, then I would suggest to the OP to go on and replace his ageing Nokia with a modern Android device. He will then be able to actually select which protocol to use, rSAP or HFP. rSAP may not be available on his phone, but there are solutions. In any case everything should work without replacing the BT module.

 

From what I can tell, the Nokia C1-01 does support both HFP and rSAP and the car is correctly choosing rSAP as it's designed to.

 

Even with the Nokia the OP should be able to choose which protocol is in use via the maxidot. You have two choices, Premium (rSAP) or Hands-free (HFP), if I remember correctly this can be set in Phone -> Settings -> Phone Settings -> Phone Mode or something similar.

 

Bretwalda, when you next have five minutes, you should check that menu exists in your car and if it does then I'd expect almost any phone to work with your factory BT for calls

[ashfan]

If it's of any use my previous 3 phones have been Samsung, the last one being a Galaxy Note 3 and my current one a Note 4. All have worked perfectly in rsap and hfp modes with my previous A suffix Bluetooth module and my current D module

[eyegr]

I believe that the whole "compatible with these XYZ mobile phones" thing is more of a caveat emptor for the automotive industry than a real warning of a possible incompatibility.

The truth is that there are a multitude of things that can go wrong with bluetooth communication of a phone with a car, and most of them are on the phone's side, especially in the smartphone era when any chinese vendor can sell a handset with badly configured software.

The car vendor just tests a few handsets at the time of production, usually flagships of big companies like the iPhone and the Galaxy S series, and that's it, although it will probably connect to many many other devices.

[Bretwalda]

It appears from the wealth of information from you kind members that this is a far more complicated (or far more simple, I'm not sure which) subject than I was led to believe.  I certainly don't want Wi-Fi hotspot capability - I spend too much time already trying to get the grandchildren to stop meddling with their electronic gizmos and look out of the windows at life around them.  It seems that the best thing I can do is take the plunge and buy a new phone and see how things go,  What started all this is that when I raised the subject of replacing my C1-01 Nokia, my wife asked my to connect her new Doro PhoneEasy 612  mobile - it would not connect.  I asked the Skoda garage about this and was told that the phone was not compatible.  They then gave me the list of compatible phones, none of which are still marketed.  And there the tale began. 

 

Thanks to all for your help, I'll let you know how I get on.

[eyegr]

Judging by the manual I just had a look at, the Doro PhoneEasy 612 should connect to the car bluetooth module using the hands free profile (HFP) which it supports. Perhaps you could try pairing it again?

[langers2k]

I agree eyegr, looks like it should be able to.

 

Bretwalda, did you try the following to confirm the module supports both protocols?

 

 

 

Even with the Nokia the OP should be able to choose which protocol is in use via the maxidot. You have two choices, Premium (rSAP) or Hands-free (HFP), if I remember correctly this can be set in Phone -> Settings -> Phone Settings -> Phone Mode or something similar.

[KBPhoto]

The Skoda list of compatible phones is so out of date it beggars belief.

[Nathanio]

I have upgraded from A model to a 3C8035730E and it works great with my work Galaxy S5, LG G3 (wife's) and my LG G4 in rSAP and HFP. I also use the WiFi hot spot function with my LG G4 and it means the car can have WiFi. Great for when I had some American colleagues over and they didn't have any roaming. They could connect to my car and get their mail etc. 

 

I paid £84.99 and it worked without needing coding but does need coding to show the icons correctly. 

 

Very pleased with the update

[Bikerz]

I have looked at the guide posted here that you recomend looking at

 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Telephone_Retrofitting

It seems the 3C8-035-730-E and D 

These support everything and can be had cheaply...... what am I missing?

 

I have a RNS510D in a mk6 R and want Bluetooth (dont think I would need Wifi? Why would anyone?) and I dont need to stream music, but txt on the screen would be great.

 

Any advice?