GTI Clubsport after all...

[newbie69]

And just as I was about to head to a SEAT dealership for the 2nd time lately to seriously ask about a Cupra it hit me. Don't do the same mistake like last time, think depreciation... Ok, so I thought what I like and decided I had to head towards BMW and Audi. Of course this meant I'd have to stretch the budget by a good 25% initially, but according to my calculations around half of that stretch will be gained back within 3-5 years time, according to the Swedish car market characteristics. Which all of a sudden made some more premium cars not that bad an idea.

 

Right, so given that I was a after a saloon (that was one thing I didn't quite like about the Leon and I can't ever imagine myself inside an estate), as much as I'd love a 6pot, budget dictates it had to be at most a 330i. My stage 2 Fabia vRS has spoiled me in terms of what I consider acceptable performance I'm afraid. I admit I am not thrilled with the 3-series looks looks too polite and ordinary. The M-Sport pack adds a few sport touches but it basically remains a 3 series. Not bad at all but then again not special either. Then the interior is very well put together but its seems a bit dated to me and feels like I'm seeing the same thing for years. Also, the 252hp on a ~1.5ton car mean it's quick but nothing shocking. In fact, I'm sure it will feel slower than the Fabia, official figures and times indicate so at least. In Estoril blue, and with the right wheels is as good as it can get aesthetically for me but as I said, it's not a car that I would normally look at twice, simply because there's just so many 3-series out there. I think the problem with this car is that looks-wise it's either the civilized look of the entire 3 series all the way from the 318 to the 340 OR the extravagant, lovely M3 which only few can afford (and live with). So there's a gap really if you want something more special but can't afford to splash the cash for an M3.

 

 

 

 

 

I then headed to the Audi dealership. To be honest I had in mind the S4 but being so new it still is not on sale and there's no official price yet, and for such a new car it will definitely be above budget. I always liked the S3 look, I think Audi have nailed it in the way they deliver a design that feels special, sporty and subtle at the same time, but didn't want to get another hatch-back. No idea the S3 came as a saloon also. Well I found out at the dealership when I saw a S3 saloon demo and immediately fell in love with it. I think the back actually looks much better than the new S4 sedan which can get confused for a Passat easily and while in general it doesn't scream at all, there's one thing that makes it look like it really means business, the quad exhaust tips. I also liked the interior very much. Feels as solid and premium as the BMW but in my eyes a much fresher and attractive design. And finally, the mk3 2.0 TFSI and DSG6 is a drivetrain that I love, like in the Cupra. A simple stage 1 map takes those to 360-370 and adds huge torque but now paired to the quattro system makes the car proper fast (4.9" for 0-100 stock) and always able to put any extra power down. The 330 as standard doesn't even come close and I feel the F30 tuning is uncharted waters. Much less options and potential is not that great from what I read.

 

 

 

So why I am still undecided? Well because the offer I have for the BMW is a really good one opposed to the Audi (around 70eur less per month for a 3 year Swedish version of PCP) and I know the 330i will be a great car once inside it. But, it's hard to get that red S3 saloon out of my mind and it just gives me that "special" feeling I don't get with the 330. I actually wanted to write all that down in an effort to clear my own thoughts and in a way I have done so alrready but since it's a general car chat, I'd love others to throw their 2p (or more) as well... 

Edited 22 April, 2016 by newbie69

[Furbytom]

For the sake of 70 Euro I'd get the S3. If you opt for the Beemer you will always be hankering after that Audi I suspect.

[Aspman]

Have been looking at BMW and Audi recently.

 

BMW cabin was a nicer place to be and I thought BMW was offering more bang for my buck than anyone else.

 

Thought about the 335i hybrid?

[newbie69]

For the sake of 70 Euro I'd get the S3. If you opt for the Beemer you will always be hankering after that Audi I suspect.

 

Well 70 euro/month plus the rest value obviously or baloon payment, is around 15% higher on the S3. In total it's a ~20% more expensive package. From what I was already willing to spent before taking into account residuals etc.

Edited 10 March, 2016 by newbie69

[john999boy]

To be honest I had in mind the S4 but being so new it still is not on sale and there's no official price yet, and for such a new car it will definitely be above budget.

 

Drool over this one in what appears to be the same red as the S3.

 

 

I do think the S3 saloon looks nice too. What a dilemma you've got! :clap:

[newbie69]

Have been looking at BMW and Audi recently.

 

BMW cabin was a nicer place to be and I thought BMW was offering more bang for my buck than anyone else.

 

Thought about the 335i hybrid?

 

Hmm, depends what you mean nicer. As I said, they're both top quality and give me that rock solid premium feel. What I liked about the Audi is that the design looks more modern, minimal and beautiful at the same time. I agree some might find it's too spartan, there's not as much on the central console as in the BMW but I am liking that. The BMW though, I have the impression I saw that interior a decade ago. Those A/C grills seriously have to change at some point. Same for the speedo font. The numbers look the same as in older BMW's and I didn't like that. I also love the flat bottom wheel on the S3, I was told there was no such option in the 330? 

 

 

 

Edited 10 March, 2016 by newbie69

[newbie69]

Drool over this one in what appears to be the same red as the S3.

 

 

I do think the S3 saloon looks nice too. What a dilemma you've got! :clap:

 

Yes that's the one I had in mind. But why they've destroyed the back I'll never understand. Now the s3 looks more sensible to me all-round, although I have to say it's smaller than the 3-series.

 

Well if I don't get at least 80% on my asking price on the vRS there won't be much of a dilemma, lol

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Reading your post it sounds like no contest for you, very little you like about the BM by the sounds of it  

 

I do like the S3 saloon, Audi's latest models really arnt doing it for me at the moment but the S3 saloon is very nice. 

[logiclee]

If you go 3 Series then Auto is a must.

 

Lee

[newbie69]

Reading your post it sounds like no contest for you, very little you like about the BM by the sounds of it

 

I do like the S3 saloon, Audi's latest models really arnt doing it for me at the moment but the S3 saloon is very nice. 

 

Wihout owning or driving any of them, the S3 saloon excites me. But I'm sure if I gave the BMW the time and lived with it I would probably be a satisfactory experience as well. Plus it's bigger and cheaper with current offers. Nothing is set in stone...

 

 

If you go 3 Series then Auto is a must.

 

Lee

 

Auto is a must due to a superior force anyway, the wife isn't going back to a manual ever...

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

If you're spending the kinda money these cars will cost though, you want more than a satisfactory experience though?

[meta55b]

I'm more of a bmw man, but that S3 saloon is very nice and would have one over any bmw, excluding the M power models. The A3 hatch on the other hand, no.

[Lady Elanore]

A chap I occasionally work with turned up in an S3 saloon late last year and it looked gorgeous. Like a 9/10ths S4. The only thing I didn't like is the 4 exhaust pipes, but that's no different to any of it's siblings or the Golf R. The 330I is a great car (I've driven one) and it's a lovely place to spend time, but I suspect the S3 would be more fun overall. Also if I had a quick 3 series I'd want the 6 cylinder engine if I could afford it, so the new 330 might disappoint me in this respect.

[Rooted]

This is the only S3 Saloon i have seen in this Green Metallic colour.

She had it up the 1/4 mile at Crail and it went rather well.

(i have deleted the pics of it on the strip i think.)

[newbie69]

A chap I occasionally work with turned up in an S3 saloon late last year and it looked gorgeous. Like a 9/10ths S4. The only thing I didn't like is the 4 exhaust pipes, but that's no different to any of it's siblings or the Golf R. The 330I is a great car (I've driven one) and it's a lovely place to spend time, but I suspect the S3 would be more fun overall. Also if I had a quick 3 series I'd want the 6 cylinder engine if I could afford it, so the new 330 might disappoint me in this respect.

 

I think it's precisely the rear end that sells the car (read: exhaust pipes), at least in my eyes. Otherwise, especially in the wrong color and wheels you can confuse it for a boring A3. Oh, and the little s-badges front and rear  :p   I feel exactly the same for the 330i, probably great car but doesn't have anything to stand out from even the humble 318 with the M Sport pack (ok one tail pipe more) and no 6cylinder. It's probably safe to say I've ruled it out already.

 

This is the only S3 Saloon i have seen in this Green Metallic colour.

She had it up the 1/4 mile at Crail and it went rather well.

(i have deleted the pics of it on the strip i think.)

 

Definitely not one of the available colors but I think there's always an Audi Custom color option which allows you to select practically every possible tone/color. Still the best 5 colors for me are:

1. Red

2. Red

3. Red  

4. Blue

5. Grey

 

 

 

Still undecided at the moment. When I added the extras I'd like to have in any modern car (fancy infotainment, full LED lights and a few others) I realized the base price stretched by a whopping 40%. That's mainly because Audi has quite poor standard equipment in general and to make it worse, Audi Sweden has gone few steps further further and removed from the standard equipment so many of the important (and expensive) items such as: 19" wheels, Audi magnetic ride, Bluetooth, flat bottomed wheel (come on it's an S model this should be standard everywhere) which surprisingly are a standard in the UK S3 saloons. So decided to consider some 2nd hand offers with really low miles as they can be a bargain.

 

And then a voice in my head said: You know that you're basically paying 10-15K for what is basically a Cupra with a rarely useful Quattro system (and the lesser version of it which is only good for straight line traction) nicer materials and a premium brand name? Now I know I'm no badge snob (obviously) and the only reason I could go for the Audi over its siblings is the looks, yes fine, but is such a price difference really worth it? Don't know... I know that engineering wise I loved the Cupra which means I could be in any of the 3 (Golf excluded ) but I will need time to fall in love with the Leon's look.

 

So there we are:

 

S3 - In love with look but can't get out of my head how stupidly it's priced over here considering the availability of the same drivetrain elsewhere. Heart's choise

Cupra - In love with the car as engine-gearbox-chassis combo but looks a bit indifferent. Reason's choice

 

......Focus RS? - Maybe just be done with VAG altogether and go for something really special? 

 

Another night that I stayed up more than I should have...

Edited 15 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Lady Elanore]

If the reviews are to be believed (and I don't see why not) then it looks like the Ford RS is 'the' car to own

[vrskeith]

If the reviews are to be believed (and I don't see why not) then it looks like the Ford RS is 'the' car to own

? Quality of cabin,usuable family space 4or 5, carrying capacity boot, day to day comfort and economy etc?

Now are your comments based on fast drivers car ,general daily road or track day use?

[Aspman]

what about a used Jag XF 5.0 Supercharged.

 

Prices aren't a millions miles off what you're looking at.

 

500hp

 

Running costs might nip a little admittedly.

 

Or a V60 Polestar?

[newbie69]

So.., a recap:

 

I have much respect for the Cupra because it is the most decent hot-hatch out there. I can't stop coming across statements that it has become almost every car journalist's favorite car (really guys, stop saying that) and the work and they've done with the handling and the mechanical diff setting is said to be exceptional. The fact that's been proven faster than the Golf R on two different tracks already says a lot. To add to it, it is also the cheaper and most practical as the estate looks nicer than the SC or 5door so that would be my choice if went for the Leon. Sadly, the depreciation looks bad and it's something I'm experiencing the hard way currently, being offered a mere 30% of my Fabia's purchase price for trade-in after little less than 5 years.

 

The Focus: I'll agree that it's probably the most special car to own. On the comfort question, funny thing is that a few reviewers, apart from praising it as a true rally/sports car, said how easy it was to live with on an everyday basis (links in the Focus RS thread). Interior quality will most surely be worse than the Audi and less stylish but then again, it's a purpose-built car and that purpose was not luxury cruising so you know what to expect. It is probably the most hardcore of all (by 2016 hardcore standards...) and I will have a really hard time to justify it to the wife but If I care about getting the most "driver's" car then there's not much to debate really. Puts Audi's Haldex quattro as well as steering feel to shame.

 

Then back to the S3: I hate how silly is the pricing on the base model against its siblings as well as on every single extra (thank God it has electric windows as standard at least) and I hate how cheeky Audi Sweden is by deciding to remove crucial options from the standard equipment making the final price of a moderately specced car even more high. I am also disappointed to read that the Haldex Quattro it uses has inherent weaknesses in the way it splits the drive and in reality is only good for straight-line traction rather than fast cornering. But it just has this damn balance between elegance, aggressiveness and overall style that nobody else offers. And that one is hard to translate into actual cost. Plus it's got some of the best residuals out there.

 

So divided between quite different cars really. I'm amazed that even by spending that amount of money I can't find one that can immediately tick all of my boxes. Need still more time to decide which are my priorities and requirements from my next car I guess...

 

 

PS. Lol on that Jag XF 5.0 - It is not about pure power, it has to be a relatively easy car to run, insure and maintain. Plus I feel the Jag brand is too posh for my like.

 

PS2: I'd better update the title...

Edited 16 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Rooted]

30% of the purchase price of a 5 year old VWG car as a trade in offer is not unusual.

In the UK you get offered over 33% depending on what you are buying and where.

Not bad on a car that could be bought for £15,500 or less in 2010/11

 

Considering the possible issues few find that depreciation of £2,000 a year that bad.

[Lady Elanore]

? Quality of cabin,usuable family space 4or 5, carrying capacity boot, day to day comfort and economy etc?

Now are your comments based on fast drivers car ,general daily road or track day use?

Well the space is fine for me and for most of it's intended buyers I think, and economy will be roughly in line with previous models so I can't see that being a problem. Then you add in the best handling and most fun car in it's segment (and many others) which all adds up to a great enthusiasts car. For me it's just the looks are too much boy racer for my taste, plus I live in Manchester, so it might not last too long outside my house. The M2 is going to have to go some to be more desirable as a drivers car, especially once you factor in the extra cost.

[newbie69]

30% of the purchase price of a 5 year old VWG car as a trade in offer is not unusual.

In the UK you get offered over 33% depending on what you are buying and where.

Not bad on a car that could be bought for £15,500 or less in 2010/11

 

Considering the possible issues few find that depreciation of £2,000 a year that bad.

 

Problem is I didn't bargain at all when I bought it in 2011 and ended up paying more than the average price so it hits harder now. Won't be making this mistake again though.

 

Then again, what I am not factoring in is that the price of the Leon and the S3 are nowhere near. Which means that since depreciation is about percentage, a, say 50%, depreciation over 3 years for a 30K Leon is just as bad as a 37.5% off a 40K S3. I don't think even the Audi can hold any better than that after 3 years.

 

Hmm, for tonight it's a Leon Cupra...  (Maybe until a get the call-back from the Audi salesman tomorrow  )

[Rooted]

The good thing is how cheaply you can get a Seat Leon Cupra in the UK.

'Much Cheapness'.

[Nels]

The S3 saloon is one if not the most beautiful cars out there at the moment, it's clean sharp lines are stunning and its class personified. The BMW is too ordinary and boring to look at, is 70 euros going to bankrupt you, I suspect not or you wouldn't be looking at either car, is the S3 going to make you happy every day, I suspect it will. In that case think no more and get an S3, you only live once.

[newbie69]

I loved the look of the S3 saloon from the moment I first saw it, both outside and inside it wins hands down. I know that I'll probably feel in love with it every time I see it parked and there's people that would buy it on that argument alone but then again hearing all this "not the best driver's car" rant is a bit depressing when you spend that amount of money i think. I mean I wouldn't expect it be the best sports car ever manufactured and at least it is much of an improvement over the previous 8P S3 and very efficient in how it covers ground but... it's a shame that a much cheaper FWD car that uses the same MQB platform and comes from a "lesser" brand delivers a better steering and handling feel with a mere mechanical front diff properly set up. Can this spoil my ownership? Given that in (South) Sweden everything is connected with everything else through a long boring straight line probably not. The few track-days per year will still feel an improvement over the vRS ( I hope ) so probably it's all good? Don't know. Have yet to test-drive one and I need to do that soon.

 

I'm starting to wonder whether waiting for a Focus RS would be a good idea or not...

Edited 16 March, 2016 by newbie69