DPF full - 2010 Octavia 1.6 tdi CR 4x4

[Sfinxern]

Hi all!

I have recently bought a 2010 Octavia 1.6 tdi 4x4 estate from a dealer.

It has 181 000km on the clock.

After I took it home I got the dpf symbol in the dash and message in maxidot to check manual.
Took it for a longer spin, approx 25min in 4th gear (6 gear manual) at around 2500rpm. Then the light came off. Now a week later, the light have come on again, same message in maxidot.

I have recentky been to the Skoda dealer nearby because another error (No bending light (AFS) function). The xenon is in limp home mode, so point just down. I have the bending xenon also.
Got the dealer to check this error, and they got a fault coming up on the front level sensor. They tried to grease it up, but did not do anything. They recommended to change the sensor. It was very pricy in my head as they wanted almost 2500 NOK only for the sensor (approx £200!!).

Anyways, spoke to the dealer where I bought the car and they want it back in to sort this out (warrenty). 

 

And here comes the rest of the story of the DPF (sorry the long thesis..).

 

When I got the documentation from the Skoda dealer, I got some history from the car aswell...

 

In June 2015, it had been to service and had a note: DPF full at 185 000km. What does this mean? Does it mean that at this milage, the DPF must be replaced anyways?
If it needs to be replaced, this is very expensive at a dealer. And the car I bought is going to the MOT in october. It could be a significant bill for me to pay if I need to take this on my own, faulty xenon will be marked at MOT, DPF also. 

 

If the DPF needs to be replaced, in my head, this would definately be something that the dealer should sort out as I did not have had any information about this upcoming cost when I bought it. Not the issues with the xenon either (yes I should have noticed the error message, but I thought it was just a bulb that was faulty, no big deal.. well..). 

 

Also, the cruisecontrol does not work (have tried to clean the switch, no luck). There are several thing getting to the surface with this car now..

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

Thanks!

Edited 26 April, 2016 by Sfinxern

[silver1011]

The DPF works by burning off the soot that collects inside it, a bi-product of the burnt soot is ash.

 

The ash is stored forever inside the DPF. Once the ash gets to a certain level it prevents the DPF from working effectively. Essentially the DPF is 'full', or in other words it has reached the end of its serviceable life.

 

Assuming you have bought this car from a Skoda main dealer and it's records show that the DPF has been full for some time, or at least before you bought the car, then yes the dealer should be replacing this for free, under warranty.

 

It may well be very different in Norway but here in the UK assuming it isn't covered under warranty you have a few options:

 

1) Remove the DPF and map out the sensors. May not be legal.

2) Clean the DPF, there are companies that can remove the ash, however this often negatively affects the performance of the DPF meaning you may well have more issues in the future.

3) Buy a non-Skoda DPF, here in the UK they are about £600 plus the fitting cost.

4) Buy a genuine Skoda DPF, here in the UK they are close to £1,200 including fitting.

 

Accessing the DPF on the 4x4 is more difficult too due to the prop shaft so this will add additional cost due to the extra time needed.

[langers2k]

You can check using VCDS how your DPF is doing. The only thing that should be a problem is oil ash as it can't be burnt off so it'll eventually block the filter.

 

On my CR140 it's currently reporting 60ml for oil ash volume after 82k miles. The maximum is a good question as it's often stated as 175ml which would give my DPF 240k miles lifetime. However, there are cars still running perfectly well with figures of over 200ml and even 300ml. There is a thread here where various TDI owners are keeping records of their DPF stats http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=324067

 

I'd be surprised if yours was full at only ~130k miles unless it's had issues with burning excess oil or turbo problems.

 

If it's soot, then a good drive or even forced regen should sort it assuming no other problems.

[Jevpls]

You should return to the dealer. Generally speaking they have sold you car with certainly known problems without telling you a single thing. I don't know Norwegian laws but I'm sure you have some institution to help in such case. Especially in case when the car has been bought from a dealer! And don't talk about DPF only, don't forget other stuff - cruise control etc.

Btw, I'd check the overall condition of the car - you might find that there are some other problems that might have lead your DPF to the end.

[Sfinxern]

Hi and thanks for advices! 

 

Ok, so I took the time to investigate this further today. Called the Skoda dealer that had noted this about the DPF original, and they told me that they had performed a forced regen of the DPF, but that it wasnt successfull, they didnt get all soot out. Too high level. Basically what they told was that it needed to change the DPF within 185 000km (now at 181 000). 

 

Got them to send me a price for DPF + work, and offcourse this was not cheap.

 

DPF alone: £ 2200 and included work, a total of £ 3100!! That is almost 1/3 of the cars total buycost. Pretty insanse. And MOT upcoming in october. This in addition to faulty headlights (level sensors or broken wires) and cruisecontrol not working.

 

Dealer said they would fix the lights, but when I followed up on when, I never heard back from them. 

Looks like I have been screwed big time. I will take the car and drive down to them as soon as possible and submit all my findings and estimated costs. Ofcourse they cant ignore this. 

 

In my head, this is so severe cost that I can claim to cancel the purchase and get my money back. 

 

 

Ill keep you posted.

[Jevpls]

 

In my head, this is so severe cost that I can claim to cancel the purchase and get my money back. 

 

 

 

Do it if possible. Seems like this car has got lots of problems and maybe even more that you aren't aware of.

And probably you can easily buy another one.

[cheshire_cat]

is that "will"    "be full at"     or is there some problem with the then (June '15) and NOW  mileage??   anyhow their problem unless you have the faults accepted in writing when bought

[Sfinxern]

Hi again,

I have talked to the dealer and they say they will fix all the problems (DPF, lights, cruisecontrol and side mirror). That is good. Going to deliver the car to them on monday. Will get a rental car meanwhile. 

 

As for what they are doing, I want to get it in writing to have full control if there should come up an issue later. Anyways, they said they wanted to check out the DPF abit more before they replaced it. When I talked to the Skoda dealer that had this car in last year, they said that they had tried to do a forced regen of the DPF, but that it wasnt succsessfull. They said it had too high lvl of soot in it. So needed to be changed before 185 000km. Then the soot lvl would be too high. So most likely they are right.

But, could the dealer to a "dirty trick" and put in a used DPF from another car that is functional? I dont want to end up having a issue with this DFP again in e.g. one year or so when the guarantee is out and dealer is home free. Could I maybe try to make them replace the DPF with a de-DPF exhaust pipe?

 

Last thing, could there be other underlying problems with the car since the DPF is full as early as 180 000km? Bad driving? Turbo issues? EGR issues? Something that would make the engine produce more soot and make the DPF struggle to keep clean? I dont know, but could be worth checking something else at the same time? I have been driving the car these days and I must say I have a bad mpg on it.  I dont get much over 40(!!!) when I drive the most economic as I can (on long drives even!). Maybe the car use abit more as it is a 4x4, but I guess mpg also is lacking from the dodgy DPF. But that much? I could never get anything around 56 mpg!! Dont feel like there are loss of power in the engine. 

 

Glad the dealer said they are going to fix it, but a litle ****ed also, as they most likely knew all about this when I bought it and didnt mention anything. Ofc, most ppl would maybe just drive and dont give a rats. Then they are home free for a good repaircost, so might worth it for them. For me, its a hassle as I have had to bring the car to a Skoda dealer, pay for diagnostics, drive back to dealer I bought it from upcoming monday, take time off work etc.. Its not like I dont have other things to do  :| ..

 

Well well.. 

 

 

Ill keep you posted!

Edited 29 April, 2016 by Sfinxern

[mannyo]

Bad MPG can be caused by the car constantly trying to regen the DPF, it does this by injecting more fuel. Once the DPF is sorted MPG should return to normal.

[Anddenton]

If the dpf had too much soot to carry out a forced regen then I don't believe it would last another 4000 km (What was the mileage at the last service?)

Sounds like the car might have been used for lots of short stop start journeys and needs a good blow out.

[Jevpls]

181km on the clock - hard to reach that with short journeys unless it was a taxi. Maybe if the first owner drove 60k per year and the next one (before you) did lots of short trips...

Recently I had a talk with a guy that deals with DPFs. He said that generally there are 2 reasons why do DPFs die:

1) they get full of ashes but it usually comes later. My car is ~173k km but DPF was found be te rather healthy;

2) something is wrong with the car. For example, oil is burnt and it's bad for DPF. Maybe wrong engine oil used. Who knows...

 

So, you can guess - if everything is OK but DPF was wasted because of improper driving before or there's something wrong with the car and even a new DPF won't last long.

 

You are afraid that dealer might give you a used DPF... well, dealer might give you used anything - flywheel, glowplug or even a single bolt. You are certain only if you do it yourself.

[Anddenton]

My dpf is only just approaching full now at 150,000 miles (240,000km), should do another 5 or 10k

[Sfinxern]

The car has followed all the services with the Skoda dealer. No holes in the service book. So that should be ok. Also just has one previous owner, so it is him that have driven all the kilometers. Not been a taxi eighter. So I think that the car must have been jused for longer journeys. But ofc if the car has gone alot on 6th gear around 80km/h, the engine would mostly been around 13-1400 rpm. Maybe that would have affected the DPF. I really dont know, but strange the DPF is dead allready out of that drivingpattern.

That is why I was suspecting an underlying fault within the engine.

[Sfinxern]

Hi again.

 

Here follows a litle update on the situation.

 

After 2 weeks in the garage, I got my car back yesterday, friday. The dealer had fixed the following faults: DPF, error on headlights (faulty hight sensor), criuse control not working and replaced one side mirror that was faulty.

 

So when I got to the dealer and checked the car, all was good. They had replaced the side mirror (check), repaired the cruise control - new arm (check), headlight was working properly (check) and no DPF light in dash (check).

 

The DPF had been in a garage that had cleaned it with some special cleaning system. Dont know why exactly, didnt get a good explaination on that.. They said they had used diagnostics to meassure the soot/ash in the DPF before and after, and that it was in good condition now. 

 

Anyways, got in my car and started to drive home. After 15minutes or so, the DPF light came back on in the dash.. sigh.. Called the dealer and informed them about this and he said I should just drive the car and "see what happens", maybe it would solve it self.. ok.. 
5 minutes later, the dealer called me back up and said he had talked to the garage where the DPF had been cleaned. They had said that the car might would ask for a active regeneration, but that is should sort it self out. Told me to be in touch. Because of traffic situation back home yesterday, I wanted to wait until I came back home to try to find a place to drive the car.

So.. late last night I got out to take the car for a long drive. Low traffic on motorway and perfect conditions to do a regen. Put the car in 5th gear in between 2000-2500rpm (closer to 2500) as the instruction manual said. I have done this earlier with success, so just repeated this.

Drove first for 15minutes, nothing happened, just continued and after I had driven the car for 40 minutes I had to stop because of traffic. Stopped by a gas station and topped up the fuel tank. Desided to turn around and take another test. This time - I followed the motorway far. Put the car back in 5th, same RPM and just kept on going.

 

I actually drove for abit over 1 hour!!!! before something happened. To the worse. Got the flashing glow plug light and "Engine fault - see garage asap" in maxidot continued by limp home. Sigh x2... Nothing I could do. Had do drive all the way back home in limp home, that was a long drive. Just in case I also checked the exhaust gas preassure sensor and it has the "made in malaysia" on it.

 

So today I sent an update to the dealer and I have to say I am completely fed up now. I want the dealer to take back the car and pay me my money back (alitle Bruce Springsteen ref there.. lol).. I have had so much hassle with this car now. Think I have had it only a few days now the last 4 weeks. Alot of back and forward. I cant be bothered with this anymore.

 

Also can mention that the car soon is up for MOT.

What do you guys think?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[xman]

Demand a refund. They have tried to fix the DPF on the cheap. The DPF is end of life and it needs a new one. You cannot trust them to change the DPF for a new genuine part.

Get your money back and walk away from that dealer.

[Sfinxern]

Hi again.

The dealer dont want to give money back, but says they now wants to fix the DPF again... sigh.

Now my car is none useable.

The engine light is on in addition to the glow plug light flashing with fault in maxidot: "Engine fault - Workshop". And it is in limp home..

The engine light have come on now, but when the limp home came on when I tried to regen, it was only the glow plugs flashing.

As I said, I dont use the car now in fear of damageing it.

If the car have been driven alot with full dpf, would that hurt the engine?

Could there be an underlying fault with engine?

Edited 19 May, 2016 by Sfinxern

[Jevpls]

We are not from Norway, you are - what laws do you got there? Are you able to get refund or not? If law is on your side and the dealer is refusing to pay your money back - try to contact the institution that's responsible for consumer right protection.

"If the car have been driven alot with full dpf, would that hurt the engine?"  - as far as I understand, once your exhaust gases won't be able to exit through the DPF and your car will act weaker until it will stop completely.

"Could there be an underlying fault with engine?" - yes, it's possible. Read my post #11.

[Sfinxern]

I have now told the dealer that I want the car to go to a garage of my choice for a diagnostic and repair. They have agreed on that. I told them that this garage can remove the insides of the DPF and reprogram the car so that it wont regen e.g. The dealer want them to just make a diagnostic of the DPF and the cleaning that have been done first, but hope that the garage says the best is to "remove it". Never an issue again..

I told them that this was a much cheaper fix then replacing the DPF with a brand new one, wich I understand they didnt want to do in the first place. And I dont want them to keep cleaning the DPF as it doesnt help much since this is so full anyways. 

So have booked my car in with this second garage upcoming wedensday, so hope this gets sorted out now soon..!

[xman]

Check this is legal in your country and whether your car will pass its annual technical test (MOT in the UK). It is not allowed to remove a dpf under euro regulations and they are currently tightening checks in the UK to pick up modified/empty DPFs.

[tonyuk74]

As it stands if it's obvious that the dpf has been removed then it is a mot fail in the uk. It could also effect the emissions test at mot time too as dpf cars have a lower maximum limit to pass.

[Sfinxern]

There is not a check for the dpf in our countrys "MOT" right now. Many have removed and are still passing the MOT. But.. we are also a EU member and if the authorities are thightening these checks in the UK, I guess it wont be long before this happens in Norway too.

So I have talked to the dealer again and we agreed to let them take it back for another attempt to fix the dpf back to original. So I wont get any troubles.

But this will be their last attempt to fix it, so I now hope they change the dreaded DPF for a new one... but I still have a bad feeling. They might put on a used filter from another car, I dont know. But it will be easy to see if a new one is fitted or not.

To be continued..