Possible DSG/Gearbox fault developing?

[Zarniwoop]

Anyone else had this?:  from time to time (becoming more frequent..now does it most days) I get a little whimpering sound as the gearbox changes up.  It seems to be on alternate gears,  from 0 to 1,  2 to 3 and 4 to 5.  If I am travelling slowly and negotiating a series of corners (as I do when approaching my house) the noise can last a couple of seconds because the clutch is slipping for longer,  but usually it is just a momentary sound... a bit like an owl's hoot,  not quite a squeal.  My feeling is that it's one of the twin clutches,  as it only occurs between alternate gears.  It never does it going down the box,  only up.

I did flag it up when the car went in for its recent service (at 9500miles),  but of course it wasn't doing it that day!  They have flagged it up on the records,  and I'm keeping an eye (or rather an ear) on it,   but just wondered if anyone else had had this,  and what it turned out to be.

[Ryeman]

Just a guess - one clutch pack glazed and chattering.

Still as new.

[ernieb]

As far as I know 1,3,5,R are on the outer clutch pack so it's likely to be a problem with that clutch or that shaft?

[Zarniwoop]

Just resurrecting this thread.....

The noise has persisted,  and is now worsening,  though it is still intermittent.  Took it back to the dealer yesterday,  who has now heard the noise and agrees it needs investigating.  He says he thinks its a sticking servo in the mechatronic unit (I disagree...I think its the clutches..... both of them since its now making the noise on both odd and even gears,  and I've a suspicion its doing it coming down the box as well as going up).  He says he'll consult the technical guys,  and its booked in "for a few days" in a couple of weeks time.  He admits Skoda will tell them to try all the cheap things first,  starting with a mechatronic oil change,  but I'm confident they will get it sorted under warranty....this dealer always bends over backwards to ensure customer satisfaction....if only they were all like that!  I'll keep you posted.

[ernieb]

Hope you get it sorted it's an expensive bit of kit to play with out of warranty.

[Rooted]

? Any reason the car is not with the Dealership and you are driving one of their Demonstrators 

and the car is being repaired?  Maybe the Dealer Principals or Sales Executive perk that Skoda UK still own?

 

You have a Warranty,

Leave the car in the Hands of Skoda UK until the matter is resolved.

They can arrange a Courtesy car if the Dealership you are using can not.

They can get their experts on the case, after all that is their job, Importing & Selling vehicles fit for purpose,

 

Has your DSG been part of the Service Campaign Recall action.  **EDIT, I see a 2015, so should not be needed**

So the Service campaign stuff does not apply.

 

..........................................................................................................

The Synthetic Oil changed to mineral and the Software Updated.

This began from May 2014 in the UK.

Not all 7 Speed DSG (DQ200) require it. But many from 2009-2014 do.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

 

If your car was at a Main Dealers for Servicing then this should have been flagged up and offered to you free.

If you never received a letter from VW.

 

The World Wide Recall which Excluded the UK/EU and RoW Service Campaigns did the correct job and the MCU was replaced,

and in some World Regions an extended warranty was given.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign

 

If you had the Service Campaign then you have Skoda responsible and the agent they had doing the work,

if not then you still have Skoda UK to answer for the issues with Clutch Packs and MCU with issues 

due to the Manufacturing and Quality Control Failures.

That is the VW Groups failures.   After all they had a 'World Wide Recall'  Excluding the Home Markets.

 

There are 'Pinned Threads' on DSG failures in the General Car Chat section of this forum.

Edited 30 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Zarniwoop]

Car is not at the dealership because it drives perfectly well,  just makes a little groan now and again....I'm perfectly happy to wait a couple of weeks for the mechanic to consult with Skoda Technical and work out a plan of action....car is booked in and courtesy car lined up ready.  The dealership have been perfectly reasonable and helpful and I see no reason to start throwing toys out of the pram at this stage...nor do I expect to have to,  given this dealership's proven track record.

[Rooted]

That is all positive then.

From May and the Original post to almost August and nothing has been done.

You could have had a Power Loss in a dangerous place on the public highway, others have, 

but VW made out that is not a problem as you can steer to a place of safety.

 

As to consulting with the Technical Department, that is just BS.

The master tech wants to fit a new MCU or not.  Authorisation is all that is required, some might call that formulation a plan of action.

Others might think it is putting off at a busy time and the holiday season.

With your almost new car i would want a new Gearbox, and you can have one if you insist.

Others have had this.

Edited 30 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Zarniwoop]

Yes,  it's all positive!  Why be so aggressive?  I have been treated with deference, respect and a listening openness,  and I shall respond in like manner.  In my experience getting stroppy when there is no confrontation is how disputes escalate...that's how wars happen,  and why the world is in such a godawful state today.  "Everyone has to have their "pound of flesh",  someone always has to be to blame for everything,  everyone has a right to compensation etc. etc. etc."  Good customer relations are a two way process;  sometimes the customer is WRONG!  Stuff happens,  and when it does it's not always a conspiracy.

Incidentally,  nothing has been done since May because I chose to do nothing since May....its not Skoda's fault.  And I'd much rather Skoda Tech were consulted than that someone without their wider view of things starts poking about at random in the vain hope they hit on a solution eventually.

Edited 30 July, 2016 by Zarniwoop

[Rooted]

There is no aggression, you are happy.

It is good you are being treated well and all will be well.  All the best with that.

 

Others are being panned off with the ongoing issues with DQ200 7 Speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG's.

These are not new issues, and they are well known in the VW Group.

 

?

Was there any suggestion at the 9,500 mile Service that the DSG's ECU have the Software Update carried out,

or on Thursday?

Edited 30 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[graham47]

Yes,  it's all positive!  Why be so aggressive?.

'Cos that's his response to everything!

Any opportunity to have a pop at VAG in general or Skoda in particular !!

[Rooted]

LOL, like your pops at me having a pop. 

(ever thought on helping any member with something?  Not the Yeti Section way is it, rather have a pop at those that bother to?

Just fan boys, happy clappys!)

Are the 'Ignore buttons' broken yet again?

 

It is not a case of having a pop, it is them just carrying on with the same old issues and passing off as one offs.

There is easy solutions and the issues get dragged out unnecessarily.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/293145-dsg-issues-or-even-real-problem

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/295041-vw-17-million-recall-7-speed-dsg

4 Years passes and Customers still get the same old story.

The DSG's are now being updated and those that have caused the issues to small numbers will be in the past yet again.

Trouble for some Used Car buyer down the line.

 

All those happy with the treatment they receive are getting along nicely with helpful and informative employees and that is lovely for you  graham47 and others.

Pity all are not treated so nicely and get landed with unusable and unsaleable vehicles and need to pay out thousands 

because VW Group Dealerships and HQ's are not treating all the same, 

and if a cheap fix is accepted then that is what might or might not get done.

(a pity some get feed up and trade in their lemons to become someone else's problem and money pit.)

Edited 30 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Zarniwoop]

OK.  Update on this thread...but not the end of the story!

Car went in last week for investigation of my noise on gear change.  Was told that Skoda needed a recording of the sound before sanctioning repairs  (apparently this is necessary if the only symptom is a noise,  as is the case with my car.  Reasonable I suppose).  So recording duly made and sent off.  Diagnosis comes back from Skoda Technical,  which absolutely flabbergasted me!  They claim the noise is coming from the aircon compressor, which must be replaced.   I argued that as far as I was concerned it was nothing to do with the aircon, but although the garage were sympathetic of my view,  Big Brother Skoda had spoken,  so they must do as they are told.  So have to await delivery and fitting of new aircon compressor.  So after another 48housr wait,  I've just had a phone call to tell me that they have found metal particles in the aircon system,  and must now investigate further.   So maybe their diagnosis is correct after all.   Looks like I'm stuck with the little Citigo courtesy car for a few more days (six days so far,  and counting.) But I'm still thinking that even when they've cleaned out the aircon system,  replaced whatever other part has failed,  recharged the system and all the rest,  the original noise will still be there.  Guess I have to wait and see.  But at very least I'll end up with a nice new aircon system,  freshly charged,  all under warranty.

I'll keep you posted.

[Rooted]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/408368-dsg-clutch-packs

[Zarniwoop]

Well,  I hope this IS the end of the story..... and I take back a lot of what I said.  The problem was NOT with the DSG,  or the mechatronic unit,  or the clutch pack,  but with the aircon compressor and dryer. Skoda technical diagnosed failing aircon compressor from the sound recording,  and after replacing this everything is running sweetly and silently.  Still some bafflement as to why the sound happened on gear changing,  but the theory is that it was the sudden drop in engine revs (and therefore compressor revs) that happens as the DSG changes up that caused the dying compressor to complain vocally.

Vindis Skoda have been brilliant throughout,  and Skoda Technical are vindicated!  The little Citigo courtesy car is a not-so-fond memory,  and I've got my Yeti grin back.

[Great Yeti]

[Zarniwoop]

As you were! the noise is back   :(

Back to square one after the weekend.  

[Zarniwoop]

Resurrecting this thread,  hopefully to end the story!  The noise returned,  and persisted, intermittently, for several months.  Of course,  any time I took it to the dealer's it steadfastly refused to misbehave,  but then,  one glorious day three weeks ago,  it was making its noise and I went straight to the garage with it.  The "master tec" came out with me, heard it,  and without a moment's hesitation agreed with me that the problem was with the clutches, and he promised to order a new clutch pack forthwith.  Long story short:  car went in end of last week for its annual service,  and I got it back today complete with brand new clutches,  Everything working silky smooth and silently so far. As a matter of interest,  I did a bit of googling around this subject,  and discovered that the clutch pack costs a little over £400,  and fitting entails 7-8 hours labour.  Found very interesting pdf of the procedure...its not a job for the DIY'er, as it involves a whole arsenal of special tools.  The garage had the car for three and a half days... and I got a Yeti courtesy car for the duration,  albeit a rather noisy diesel manual one,  but a lot better than the usual Citigo.  So I'm a happy bunny at last.

[sixer]

What a great result! Long Time coming but great dealer support throughout. Enjoy

Edited 25 April, 2017 by sixer

[logiclee]

Good you got it sorted.

 

One of our Yeti's has started to experience a little clutch slip and minor vibration in 3rd mainly but sometimes 4th. I can get it to to it by selecting 3rd manually and then floor it (No kickdown). I'll get shudders and see the rev counter judder.

So it's going to have to go in with just 4000 miles.

Our previous 1.2TSi DSG Fabia also had to have it's clutch packs replaced at 18k miles.

 

I've done around 250k miles in vehicles with the wet clutch 6 speed box without any problems.

 

Lee

[kenfowler3966]

Staying in a hotel today for work.

Met a mechanic on a course nearby and staying here as well converting him to work on Jaguars.

He has just left Skoda after working for them for 14 years.

I was talking to him about dsg reliability and he said there were issues several years ago but now he rarely saw one with a problem and are largely bulletproof.

Occasional problems with dry clutches but often because not driven correctly.

I have seen a quote on here of £400 for the clutch pack and 7.5 hrs to fit. He thought that was excessive for the pack and could change one in 5 hours.

Conversely a normal clutch could cost £800 to do anyway and the wet clutch should outlast 2 normal clutches.

Edited 25 April, 2017 by kenfowler3966
Error

[logiclee]

16 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

 

Occasional problems with dry clutches but often because not driven correctly.

 

 

 

How do you not drive an automatic correctly though?

 

Other than abuse such as holding the car on the clutch instead of the brake on a hill or leaving the car in Drive against the handbrake all decision while driving in D are done by the gearbox.

 

Lee

[kenfowler3966]

Exactly. When I had my car in for a service I was given a lift to work  by a Skoda employee.

in the dsg car first thing he did was disable stop start.

then drove in heavy traffic leaving in drive when stopped, handbrake on each time and foot off brake!

i have also read any easy mistake to make is to creep in traffic with foot slightly on brake to keep speed down. This means slipping the clutches. Instead you should stop and wait for a gap so you can move forward slightly faster with clutches fully engaged and stop again if needed.

[Zarniwoop]

I have no evidence as a basis for this,  but my gut feeling is that the problem with my 7 speed dry clutches was manufacturing tolerances.  The clutches and gearbox always worked perfectly well;  the only problem was the noise it made,  and this was intermittent...it would be silent for days on end,  and then for a few days it would make its funny chirruping noise when changing from 0 to 1,  2 to 3, and 4 to 5;  then the noise would disappear....as though there was movement somewhere between components.  Looking at the replacement procedure it is clear that the spring loadings and spacings are critical,  and vary from unit to unit,  presumably because the castings are not uniform.  The clutch pack comes with two sets of shims for the two clutches,  and there is a procedure for selecting the optimum shims for your particular set of components.  I suspect that when mine was assembled in the factory the tolerances fell between shim thicknesses,  and there was a tiny amount of play or slightly too much/little clearance between elements.  Not enough to cause malfunction,  but enough to make a noise.  We'll never know, of course,  but that seems to me to be the likely explanation.  I was never accused of poor driving technique,  and although Skoda were obviously reluctant to spend what must have approached £1000 to put things right,  they nevertheless coughed up in the end and replaced the entire assembly under warranty. So with 19,000 miles and two years on the clock I have a nice new pair of clutches,  and this set work silently.

[Zarniwoop]

20 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Exactly. When I had my car in for a service I was given a lift to work  by a Skoda employee.

in the dsg car first thing he did was disable stop start.

then drove in heavy traffic leaving in drive when stopped, handbrake on each time and foot off brake!

i have also read any easy mistake to make is to creep in traffic with foot slightly on brake to keep speed down. This means slipping the clutches. Instead you should stop and wait for a gap so you can move forward slightly faster with clutches fully engaged and stop again if needed.

 

If you engage the handbrake with the gearbox in D,  the car will strain against the brakes....I'm amazed your driver did this.  But when the car is at rest,  in D, with foot on the footbrake,  the clutches are completely disengaged... only re-engage when footbrake is released.  The best thing to do if stopped for any length of time is to shift to N and apply handbrake;  but for a short delay,  leave in D and keep foot on brake...then it will creep as soon as brake is released.