Piston rings?

[Dannytsi]

Asking on behalf of a work colleague with a Fabia vRS.

I was following a work colleague into work yesterday morning and noticed that when setting off from a standstill, and after "coasting" down a hill and applying throttle, his vRS let out a plume of white/grey/blue smoke. I told him what I saw and he asked me to follow him when leaving work at the end of the day to see if it did it again, which it did.

Same again this morning when by chance I ended up behind him again. It doesn't do it when the revs are high, spirited driving or even maintaining speed. Just at low revs after "coasting" down hill or when setting off from traffic lights etc.

Does this sound like a piston ring failure? Car is standard and serviced by him at least twice a year with quality parts and apart from the smoke, seems to drive and pull well.

If it is the piston rings, how much would he roughly be looking at to have the pistons and rings changed at an indy?

[giandougl]

I would be inclined to advise your colleague to get a cylinder test first.

Diesels are inclined to blast-out soot and muck on ramming your foot down hard on the accelerator. and then clears afterwards.

Seems as though there is a build-up of unspent fuel in the cylinders, then, with a sudden increase of fuel being injected as in hard acceleration, it's all cleared out, and more fuel gets burnt, so clears itself ?

Edited 26 May, 2016 by giandougl

[Rooted]

'Calm Down dear'.

 

Blowing soot out of a Twincharger is nothing to panic about.

They run rich on start up, and build up soot in the exhaust.

It is good to blast out soot and let those behind think it is a diesel.

 

If it does not smoke a ickle bit when booted at first then worry with a CAVE or even a CTHE.

 

Many cars 6 years old on original engines have black soot on the tail pipe and no issues,

25 MPG or so for the first 5-10 miles.  ie Running Rich.

 

PS,

Have you never followed your own vRS to see if it puffs soot on the odd gear change and puts out a nice amount 

once it is out of the town and given a good kick down and offski up the road.

 

PPS

What Servicing with good parts do you mean, 

Oil, Filter, Air Filter & Fuel Filter, Pollen filter & Spark Plugs, that is all that is needed,

and Super Unleaded and a good blast regularly and the car taken up to operating temp to clean off the plugs.

Edited 26 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Dannytsi]

I would be inclined to advise your colleague to get a cylinder test first.

Diesels are inclined to blast-out soot and muck on ramming your foot down hard on the accelerator. and then clears afterwards.

Seems as though there is a build-up of unspent fuel in the cylinders, then, with a sudden increase of fuel being injected as in hard acceleration, it's all cleared out, and more fuel gets burnt, so clears itself ?

The Mk2 Fabia vRS is a 1.4tsi, not a diesel

[Rooted]

But the Audi / Jag Diesel driver or white van man that wants in your back seat does not know that, 

so let them sit their, then parp some soot a couple of times, then boot it, leave them driving through the smoke screen.

[Dannytsi]

'Calm Down dear'.

Blowing soot out of a Twincharger is nothing to panic about.

They run rich on start up, and build up soot in the exhaust.

It is good to blast out soot and let those behind think it is a diesel.

If it does not smoke a ickle bit when booted at first then worry with a CAVE or even a CTHE.

Many cars 6 years old on original engines have black soot on the tail pipe and no issues,

25 MPG or so for the first 5-10 miles. ie Running Rich.

PS,

Have you never followed your own vRS to see if it puffs soot on the odd gear change and puts out a nice amount

once it is out of the town and given a good kick down and offski up the road.

PPS

What Servicing with good parts do you mean,

Oil, Filter, Air Filter & Fuel Filter, Pollen filter & Spark Plugs, that is all that is needed,

and Super Unleaded and a good blast regularly and the car taken up to operating temp to clean off the plugs.

It's definitely not just soot, and I have followed my own vRS and that occasionally gives a bit of a whisper of black smoke. It certainly doesn't do it every time the throttle is pressed from a standstill or after rolling down hill.

His does the white/grey/blue smoke pretty much every time under those conditions. It's definitely not using coolant so that rules that out and his car is a bit of an oil user anyway but he's not noticed the smoke until I told him about it so he figures it's a recent thing to start happening. I've told him to monitor his oil level to see if it is using more than before.

Oil, filter and sparkplugs get replaced twice a year for definite (he gets me to order them), most recently being about 5 weeks ago. I don't know about fuel filter but that wouldn't cause that colour smoke anyway. He really only uses Tesco Momentum fuel.

[Breezy_Pete]

How many miles on the car?

[Rooted]

^^^.

Exactly.

How many miles on the engine in total, how many miles a week does he do.

Is it a CAVE or a CTHE and has it had a Software Update.

 

If it runs well then fine.

If it has oil all over the rear of the car, or drinks loads then not fine.

 

Stuff coming out the exhaust is no issue, they run rich on start up and until up to temp.

Different Maps from 2010-2012 and then 2012-2014.

 

If you were rebuilding it is not just Pistons and Rings, 

it is Bearings a checking the Head / Valves etc.   All Mileage dependent.

[Rooted]

?

What are the Spark Plugs like that are coming out, is cylinder 3 looking not so good.

& how much of a oil user is it?

 

Tell him to use 5w 40 (VW 502 00), change it every 10,000 miles unless he Tracks the car,  and keep taking the Momentum,

maybe buy DENSO Spark Plugs next time and they might do him for 20,000 miles plus.

[giandougl]

The Mk2 Fabia vRS is a 1.4tsi, not a diesel

OOOOPPPS!! just read in your message it was a Fabia VRS, not model etc..sorry..

I will add get the cylinders pressure wet & dry tested to see if compression is down?

[Rooted]

Dannytsi,

Just wondering, i was reading your BOV for sale ad, question on fitting a new upgraded radiator after the original was holed,

and the joke about checking oil soon when you could not open the bonnet.

So is this really a question 'for a friend', or do you have a little problem you want to talk about with Oil, Coolant, Misfires?

 

Which engine and what engine management / map it runs matters, 

and if it has had Servicing that Skoda accept as to the Guidlines.

 

Then if it is an Oil user or faulty they can be requested to pay for Oil Consumption tests, 

then if a User pay for the Oil Spray Jets and Software Update and if that is not resolving things 

they can pay to have a new engine fitted.

VW / Skoda know of the Fundamental Design, Manufacturing / Component Choice failings with many the Twincharger engines they produces from 2009-2014

As many others do.  The only difference is VW never admit it.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technichal/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

Edited 26 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Dannytsi]

Dannytsi,

Just wondering, i was reading your BOV for sale ad, question on fitting a new upgraded radiator after the original was holed,

and the joke about checking oil soon when you could not open the bonnet.

So is this really a question 'for a friend', or do you have a little problem you want to talk about with Oil, Coolant, Misfires?

The BOV spacer was removed after I had a diverter valve failure. The "tissssshhhh" was entertaining for a little while but I soon got bored with it. Replacing my radiator is one of those things and me not getting my bonnet open was because I didn't hook the bonnet release cable up to the bonnet catch properly. That was remedied by going through the grille. Yes, my car uses a bit of oil but probably no more than the majority of other people on here.

It is not my car that has the problem. If it was, I'd be flapping with worry.

[Rooted]

Likely no need for your mate to worry then.

So what is their car, age mileage ect, and how long have they had it?

[scoobysn7x]

Can I ask a dumbass question, if your standing at the front of the car looking at the engine, which way do the cylinders run  is it  1 2 3 4 (with 1 being at the drivers side, or is it 4 3 2 1 (with 1 being at the passenger side)?

[Breezy_Pete]

1 at (UK) driver's side

[Dannytsi]

He's had it 3 years, CAVE engine, 60 reg (2011?) 44000 miles. He reported the oil consumption when he bought it and apparently it was within tolerances. Since the warranty ran out, he's serviced it himself so doubt he'll get anywhere with Skoda now.

Do those symptoms look like the piston rings though? I doubt it's the valve guides because wouldn't it smoke on overrun and off the throttle? Could it also potentially be the turbo seals or pcv? These engines are far too complicated haha!

[Rooted]

What symptoms do you mean. The exhaust emissions? Try the latest SOFTWARE UPDATE, see how it goes! Lots of tests had engined within tolerances because the tests were nonesense, but still people got Breather mods, breather mods mk2, software updates, new squirters and even new engines. Nothing new, look at vxh26's pinned thread.

Edited 26 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Breezy_Pete]

Neither old enough, nor enough miles done for it to be valve stem seals, I'd think.

[Rooted]

Enough miles to have valves burned out though, as members of this forum have had.

 

Yet another of the many many threads that have been in this section from 2010 to now.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/322516-so-where-does-all-the-oil-go

Edited 26 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

a little white smoke on overrun is not an uncommon occurrence and can be down to something as simple as condensation build up.

However if the smoke was accompanied by the use of half a litre of oil a week then there would be much cause for concern.