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judder and EML light on 2006 2.0 pd DSG


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i have just bought a 2006 Elegance from the auction and took a chance on it as the EML light was on

the eml light was on and it had 2 codes but 1 could not be read by my cheap code reader

the other code was P0401

when it was driven back from the block it kicked out some smoke  but then cleared but the egr valve looks dirty and oily

also the airbox has a hole in it 

when accelerating i get a judder and while on tick over there is a metalic rattle every now and then from the passenger side

the guy who drove it back said it sounds like the wheel bearing is on its way out

before i start to fit DMF etc i have read the EGR can cause these symptons as well?

 

any help appreciated guys 

 

its got 118k miles with history 

Model is elegance tdi pd A

max power (kw) 103

engine BKD A15763

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P0401 is the code for EGR "Insufficient Flow". Basically the EGR isn't opening enough......happened to me last week. It's worth cleaning the valve and clearing the code to see if that fixes it......it didn't work for me and I had to replace the EGR valve.

 

However I think this P0401 code can also be caused by an out of spec MAF sensor as the engine actually uses the MAF value to measure EGR. It might be worth unplugging the MAF sensor to see if it makes a difference......ie if it is faulty the car should run a lot better with it unplugged.

 

The other symptoms sound a lot like DMF. I've been there too and had mine replaced last year on my 2.0 PD DSG. When it is rattling on idle, try putting it in D with your foot on the brake.....if the rattle stops it is the DMF.

 

Good luck. 

Edited by booke23
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P0401 is the code for EGR "Insufficient Flow". Basically the EGR isn't opening enough......happened to me last week. It's worth cleaning the valve and clearing the code to see if that fixes it......it didn't work for me and I had to replace the EGR valve.

 

However I think this P0401 code can also be caused by an out of spec MAF sensor as the engine actually uses the MAF value to measure EGR. It might be worth unplugging the MAF sensor to see if it makes a difference......ie if it is faulty the car should run a lot better with it unplugged.

 

The other symptoms sound a lot like DMF. I've been there too and had mine replaced last year on my 2.0 PD DSG. When it is rattling on idle, try putting it in D with your foot on the brake.....if the rattle stops it is the DMF.

 

Good luck. 

 

thanks for the reply

the weird thing is that the rattle is only there every 30 seconds or so and lasts for about 10 seconds?

The rattle noise will most likely be dmf budget £600-£750 to replace.

The eml probably insufficient air flow as the egr isn't opening. They are only £50 to replace and 10-15 minute job to replace.

thanks for the reply

where are they £50?

cheers

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The rattle noise will most likely be dmf budget £600-£750 to replace.

The eml probably insufficient air flow as the egr isn't opening. They are only £50 to replace and 10-15 minute job to replace.

 

Insufficient flow can be a vacuum leak or solenoid failure on the vacuum/solenoid setup that operates the EGR/variable turbo vanes/anti shudder valve.  Flexible vacuum pipes can rot or the solid pipes run through with vibration

 

Does the engine shudder when turning off?

 

 

Edited by bigjohn
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Insufficient flow can be a vacuum leak or solenoid failure on the vacuum/solenoid setup that operates the EGR/variable turbo vanes/anti shudder valve.  Flexible vacuum pipes can rot or the solid pipes run through with vibration

 

Does the engine shudder when turning off?

im not sure John i will check tomorrow

it was driven back on trade plates by my mates emplyee who has the traders policy 

i cleared the faults with my £9.99 ebay code reader and they have not come back

all the airbox is loose and one of the pipes from the airbox is broken and holed

i gave £1100 for it and knew the eml was on when i bought it but thought it was worth a punt.

thanks for the reply and help so far folks

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Listen out for rattles when you turn the engine off.

 

I think my DMF is just starting to show some signs of wear. There is a slight rattle at idle that I can hear with my head under the car and when I switch the engine off I can hear a faint clatter from that area.

 

Euro Car Parts is often a good place to get a new DMF if you can find a decent discount code. You can usually get them for around £275.

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Insufficient flow can be a vacuum leak or solenoid failure on the vacuum/solenoid setup that operates the EGR/variable turbo vanes/anti shudder valve.  Flexible vacuum pipes can rot or the solid pipes run through with vibration

 

Does the engine shudder when turning off?

 yes it does John

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 yes it does John

 

That helps,

 

The EGR, Variable vanes and anti shudder valve share the same vacuum system. If you effectively have two faults on the same system  (Insufficient flow = EGR, Shudder - anti shudder valve) then you probably have a fault on the vacuum system. There is a vacuum "T" off near the brake servo where a small pipe comes off the  large servo pipes.

 

 

Disconnect the small pipe - if you  feel/hear a sucking when engine running (you should) reconnect and follow the pipe  to the next junction examining both rigid and flexible pipes carefully.

Eventually when you are downstream of the leak you won't hear/feel the vacuum

Edited by bigjohn
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That helps,

 

The EGR, Variable vanes and anti shudder valve share the same vacuum system. If you effectively have two faults on the same system  (Insufficient flow = EGR, Shudder - anti shudder valve) then you probably have a fault on the vacuum system. There is a vacuum "T" off near the brake servo where a small pipe comes of the  large servo pipes.

 

 

Disconnect the small pipe - if you  feel/hear a sucking when engine running (you should) reconnect and follow the pipe  to the next junction examining both rigid and flexible pipes carefully.

Eventually when you are downstream of the leak you won't hear/feel the vacuum

thanks John

i will give that a try this afternoon and report back

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just an update guys, i have not had chance to do the test that bigjohn suggested but took the car for a long drive

the judder occurs when going from 2nd to 3rd and really badly if i accelerate hard and also when in the lower gears when coasting round corners or after braking to take corners and then lifting off the accelerator

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just an update guys, i have not had chance to do the test that bigjohn suggested but took the car for a long drive

the judder occurs when going from 2nd to 3rd and really badly if i accelerate hard and also when in the lower gears when coasting round corners or after braking to take corners and then lifting off the accelerator

 

That is definitely the DMF. It sounds like it is in an advanced state of failure......most people replace the DSG flywheel before it gets to the juddering stage. As soon as mine started juddering I got it replaced.....just in the nick of time as one of the springs in my flywheel had broke and freed itself from within the flywheel by punching a hole on the edge of the flywheel. I was very lucky not to have had it fly apart completely and hole the gearbox.

 

I'd avoid driving it until you get it replaced.    

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That is definitely the DMF. It sounds like it is in an advanced state of failure......most people replace the DSG flywheel before it gets to the juddering stage. As soon as mine started juddering I got it replaced.....just in the nick of time as one of the springs in my flywheel had broke and freed itself from within the flywheel by punching a hole on the edge of the flywheel. I was very lucky not to have had it fly apart completely and hole the gearbox.

 

I'd avoid driving it until you get it replaced.    

i am getting it fitted on Wednesday i ordered the flywheel and bolts from Euro car parts numbers 640440500 (bolts) and 336445050 (DMF) both LUK

i also need a rear engine mount but they seem to come in upper and lower ? so i have ordered 337442735 (lower) and 337442885 (upper) all these numbers are euro car parts numbers

so we will see whats what on Wednesday

at least i will know things are right because i will have had it done!

 

thanks for all the help guys it is greatly appreciated 

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just an update guys

 

DMF in

new timing belt kit and plastic finned water pump (original VAG) in

the turbo was found to have some play and was allowing oil past so new turbo in

 so all in all its not that cheap a motor but on the other hand i know whats been done now

Edited by bmhill
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Wow......that's a lot of disassembly for a flywheel, turbo and timing belt! 

 

Good to see it's all coming together. 

yeah i thought the same as well

the front bumper had to come off anyway because the washers won't work and there we found the mechanism broken so new ordered and he said that he finds it quicker and easier to get the engine and box out than mess around with the gearbox and then mess around doing the water pump and timing belt kit and also with the turbo being suspect he opted to take the lot out and the rear engine mountings were perished

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  • 2 weeks later...

new gearbox oil has sorted the juddering and harsh gear change 95% 

i have not had the shudder since and had only 1 or 2 clunks in the past few days

i just need the adaptations setting in the gearbox via vcds and then i will know what is what

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