No drive to rear wheels (4x4 off road)

[sampo]

Hi all,

 

A few months ago I purchased a 2013 Yeti L&K 170 manual.  It's a nice little workhorse and I bought it because from time to time I do actually need the 4x4 - we have a farm in Snowdonia and one of the buildings in particular cannot be accessed without reasonable ground clearance (and traction if wet).

 

Long story short, I got temporarily stuck half way up the track to this building, O/S/F spinning freely and apparently no drive to any other wheel.  The car was in 'off-road mode' and both rears were on stone with good traction.  The passenger got out and confirmed that only the O/S/F was spinning - just as you'd expect an FWD with no LSD to do when traction levels are very different across the axle.  No warning lights etc., but then I understand there is no way for the hadlex to notify the driver of a fault.  I've driven this section of track many times in Subaru's and Landy's without issue.

 

The car is booked in for a service tomorrow - is there anything in particular I should ask the service manager to check?  It's the 40k service so hadlex oil change is being done.  I did notice the battery was quite low when starting on the forecourt when I bought it.  I've read conflicting reports that a low voltage can disable the 4x4 until reset by the service software.  Does anyone have experience of this?  Thanks

[Llanigraham]

Hi all,

 

A few months ago I purchased a 2013 Yeti L&K 170 manual.  It's a nice little workhorse and I bought it because from time to time I do actually need the 4x4 - we have a farm in Snowdonia and one of the buildings in particular cannot be accessed without reasonable ground clearance (and traction if wet).

 

Long story short, I got temporarily stuck half way up the track to this building, O/S/F spinning freely and apparently no drive to any other wheel.  The car was in 'off-road mode' and both rears were on stone with good traction.  The passenger got out and confirmed that only the O/S/F was spinning - just as you'd expect an FWD with no LSD to do when traction levels are very different across the axle.  No warning lights etc., but then I understand there is no way for the hadlex to notify the driver of a fault.  I've driven this section of track many times in Subaru's and Landy's without issue.

 

The car is booked in for a service tomorrow - is there anything in particular I should ask the service manager to check?  It's the 40k service so hadlex oil change is being done.  I did notice the battery was quite low when starting on the forecourt when I bought it.  I've read conflicting reports that a low voltage can disable the 4x4 until reset by the service software.  Does anyone have experience of this?  Thanks

 

I suspect you have found the "fault".

Yes, a low battery can cause the Haldex unit not to operate.

[sampo]

Thank you.  I believe the car had been standing for a while before I bought it.  Battery appears absolutely fine now - no hesitation on starting etc.  Is it true, then, that the hadlex can remain disabled even if the battery recovers (or is swapped for a new one) until the hadlex fault/status is cleared via service software?

[Sad555]

Just trying to understand this ,that once the battery has gone flat/ low the haldex system is deactivated with no warning and can only be reactivated by the dealers?

[Urrell]

The other front wheel should have been getting some drive from the "electronic" dif-lock braking the spinning wheel

.

[sampo]

The other front wheel should have been getting some drive from the "electronic" dif-lock braking the spinning wheel

.

 

I thought this too but it didn't seem to be - it was almost as though the whole system was disabled.  Felt just like a normal FWD car with one wheel stuck on a muddy verge.  The OSF span for a few seconds, the textured brown finish down the drivers side of the car is testament to that...

 

To get past the point where I was stuck I had to back down and take a run at it - not something I like to do as it's very rough and better suited to crawling.  I will ask the technician tomorrow for an explanation and follow up on this post.

Edited 26 June, 2016 by sampo

[Llanigraham]

I would suggest getting all the codes checked, just in case. I presume you were keeping the power on all the time, and not easing off as you sensed the wheel spinning? It is a common fault amongst those that are used to driving the Defender type vehicles.

 

No 555, a recharged/new battery resets any low voltage "faults".

[Sad555]

Still a bit puzzled by this as the op says the car was purchased some months ago or it it just an age thing(me)

A few months ago I purchased a 2013 Yeti L&K 170 manual. It's a nice little workhorse and I bought it because from time to time I do actually need the 4x4 - we have a farm in Snowdonia and one of the buildings in particular cannot be accessed without reasonable ground clearance (and traction if wet).

Long story short, I got temporarily stuck half way up the track to this building, O/S/F spinning freely and apparently no drive to any other wheel. The car was in 'off-road mode' and both rears were on stone with good traction. The passenger got out and confirmed that only the O/S/F was spinning - just as you'd expect an FWD with no LSD to do when traction levels are very different across the axle. No warning lights etc., but then I understand there is no way for the hadlex to notify the driver of a fault. I've driven this section of track many times in Subaru's and Landy's without issue.

The car is booked in for a service tomorrow - is there anything in particular I should ask the service manager to check? It's the 40k service so hadlex oil change is being done. I did notice the battery was quite low when starting on the forecourt when I bought it. I've read conflicting reports that a low voltage can disable the 4x4 until reset by the service software. Does anyone have experience of this? Thanks

Llanigraham ..............

I suspect you have found the "fault".

Yes, a low battery can cause the Haldex unit not to operate ......reply #1.

No 555, a recharged/new battery resets any low voltage "faults". Reply #2

Edited 28 June, 2016 by Sad555

[sampo]

Hi,

 

Sorry for the delay.  There was a fault code logged; they cleared it.  I didn't really get a proper answer from the technician - he said it may have been because 'of the condition of the haldex oil' which was changed for the first time during this service.  I'm heading back up to Wales this weekend so will try it again and see what happens.  The fault is now logged with Skoda within the warranty period (just!), so if it recurs and it turns out there is something more substatial wrong I've been told they'll cover it because the original fault code was recorded by them within the warranty period.

 

Sad555, yes the car was purchased a few months ago; the starter was sluggish when the salesman started it the first time on the forecourt.  However, it recovered after the test drive and there are no apparent issues with it now now so I guess it will be fine at least until winter.  

[sampo]

Update: all seems to be working since the reset.  Our farm is on the mountain so I went for a little 'play'.  Very wet conditions.  It's a pretty remarkable little car actually; traction is very good given the tyres (Michelin CrossClimates, which have a token nod towards off road capability given their M+S rating).  I did some extremely steep climbs on wet grass and it scrabled up as well as the Landy used to - you can really feel the brakes limiting slip across the axle.  Obviously it doesn't have the clearance or mud capabilities of a proper utility vehicle but it's mighty impressive for what it is.  I also had to do some towing over soft ground and the softened throttle map in the 'offroad' mode makes it very easy to move off without any slip.

[Llanigraham]

Update: all seems to be working since the reset.  Our farm is on the mountain so I went for a little 'play'.  Very wet conditions.  It's a pretty remarkable little car actually; traction is very good given the tyres (Michelin CrossClimates, which have a token nod towards off road capability given their M+S rating).  I did some extremely steep climbs on wet grass and it scrabled up as well as the Landy used to - you can really feel the brakes limiting slip across the axle.  Obviously it doesn't have the clearance or mud capabilities of a proper utility vehicle but it's mighty impressive for what it is.  I also had to do some towing over soft ground and the softened throttle map in the 'offroad' mode makes it very easy to move off without any slip.

 

The M + S rating on those tyres does not mean mud and snow, but MOUNTAIN & SNOW. 

[langers2k]

The M + S rating on those tyres does not mean mud and snow, but MOUNTAIN & SNOW.

 

Are you sure?

 

The Michelin how to read a tyre states the following:

 

M + S - Mud and Snow marking indicates that the tyre is, according to European rulings a 'snow tyre' but performances under Winter conditions have not been subject to testing.

 

The crossclimates also have a 3 Peaks Mountain Snow Flake which is to certify the winter performance.

[freedie]

Update: all seems to be working since the reset.  Our farm is on the mountain so I went for a little 'play'.  Very wet conditions.  It's a pretty remarkable little car actually; traction is very good given the tyres (Michelin CrossClimates, which have a token nod towards off road capability given their M+S rating).  I did some extremely steep climbs on wet grass and it scrabled up as well as the Landy used to - you can really feel the brakes limiting slip across the axle.  Obviously it doesn't have the clearance or mud capabilities of a proper utility vehicle but it's mighty impressive for what it is.  I also had to do some towing over soft ground and the softened throttle map in the 'offroad' mode makes it very easy to move off without any slip.

 

Exactly my findings too.

 

(I think Llanigraham was joking with his comment!)

[Ryeman]

You need a Ford

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1105058_ford-says-new-super-duty-can-drag-20-tons-no-tree-stump-safe

[EvoT]

Glad to read you got the car fixed woud have been nice if you had been told what the fault code was for future reference

 

There was a fault code logged; they cleared it.  I didn't really get a proper answer from the technician - he said it may have been because 'of the condition of the haldex oil' which was changed for the first time during this service.

 

 A lot of maybe this or that from the garage you went to, how many miles had the Haldex oil covered before you had it changed? there is no mention of the change period in the handbook for the oil which is a bit poor from a service point of view as it appears that a regular change avoids a costly garage diaognostic charge and it would have been great if Skoda had fitted a warning indicator that you had a Haldex problem resulting in no 4 wheel drive and I think thats been said before on this forum.

 

Next car for me ? one without a Haldex rear axle if its a 4x4 and as little electronics as possible how I miss my Lande, I need a Defender barn find.

[Ryeman]

^^^^^like you I despise the sealed-for-life trend.

I'm more into preventative maintenance.

[Urrell]

^^^^^like you I despise the sealed-for-life trend.

I'm more into preventative maintenance.

According to THIS it's not a sealed for life unit.

[Ryeman]

According to THIS it's not a sealed for life unit.

Not specifically, just the white goods trend.

[Cumbrian28]

The frequency of oil change in that link are interesting. Skoda dealers don't seem to know/agree what the frequency should be. Be good to know if those quoted are in agreement with the Haldex manufacturer.

One of the things that narks me about dealers in general is that they all seem to differ in their advice to the customer re frequency of things such as this and the tech support system is equally vague. ( Not only Skoda, this afflicts other makes as well).

[Urrell]

This explains the operation of Haldex pretty well and dispels some of the black magic.

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/haldex/

[ejstubbs]

Next car for me ? one without a Haldex rear axle if its a 4x4 and as little electronics as possible how I miss my Lande, I need a Defender barn find.

 

Yeah, 'coz Landies never go wrong...!

 

When I asked my sister how she first met the man who is now my brother-in-law, she said: "I found him under a Land Rover".  In subsequent interrogation questioning conversation he said that he had been rebuilding the transfer case.  This information contributed to the high total score he was awarded in the "pro" column by myself & my Dad.  He now runs a 1920s Alvis, amongst other esoterica.

Edited 20 July, 2016 by ejstubbs

[Ryeman]

I prefer a spanner over a scan tool.........it's an age thing though.

[Brijo]

I prefer a spanner over a scan tool.........it's an age thing though.

 

You're right, there, up to a point.  But I've found that as the 'age thing' really takes hold the appeal of the spanner (and all the bl00dly knuckles, ingrained oily hands, cricked neck, locked knees and so on) does rather start to diminish

Edited 21 July, 2016 by Brijo

[Ryeman]

You're right, there, up to a point.  But I've found that as the 'age thing' really takes hold the appeal of the spanner (and all the bl00dly knuckles, ingrained oily hands, cricked neck, locked knees and so on) does rather start to diminish

Oh yes, we (me and my body) agree but the alternative usually ends up with expensive electromechanical components from the spares department.

Old buggers and old bangers kinda go together..

[sampo]

Hi all,

 

So in answer to one question, the car is a 13 plate and had done about 38k miles when the fluid was changed.  I haven't owned from new but believe it was the first haldex change.  Full Skoda main dealer history.

 

Unfortunately last weekend, whilst scrabbling up the increasingly knackered track to the mountain house, the 4x4 failed again.  Exactly the same fault I believe, feels as though everything 'disengaged' and I am left with one wheel spinning away.  No drive to the rear and no braking of the slipping front wheel.  Descent control still works.  Just managed to get up to the house and tested the car on a wet, slopping grass field the next morning.  Same problem, one wheel spins hopelessly leaving the car stationary.  Driving back south through Wales, I noticed lots of wheel spin and TC intervention in first/second if accelerating hard out of wet turns, up steep hills etc. (170 bhp diesel).  Shows how much the system contributes without you really noticing on road too.

 

Now the original fault was logged within the warranty period, and when the dealer said they had logged the error and simply performed a haldex service and reset the fault I did query what would happen if this did not solve the problem as the warranty was on the bring of expiry.  I was told, categorically, that becasue the original fault was recorded by them within warranty that if it recurred it would be covered.  Nothing 'obvious' had caused it and they wanted to try the oil change before going for a deeper diagnosis.  I was happy to try that given that assurance.  Clearly it did work for a while, but has now failed again so wasn't the root cause unless this is one hell of a coincedence.  Car booked in for Thursday for diagnosis.  Let's see if they try and back track on the warranty situation because it did work for a few months following the oil change, there were hints of that on the phone which has me concerned...

Edited 18 October, 2016 by sampo