1.2 TSI 110 cold start rough running

[vels]

Hi,

 

Just wanted to hear if your cars also runs like an old 1985 vauxhall kadett the first kilometer or so when engine is cold...

 

Mine starts up with high idle around 11-1200 rpm ( fine ) , but then if you drive the engine runs very rough, - feels exactly like misfiring.

When applying a little throttle it first hums low with a snorkling sound, clear hesitation, then starts to take throttle with several misfire alike events..

 

After around 1 km it starts to run like normal..

 

Best regards

Vels 

Edited 30 June, 2016 by vels

[alltorque]

No such problems with my little one. Runs very sweetly from the get go and, with 7000+ miles now run is developing into a very nice, willing and spirited bundle of fun. Not as grunty as the old Volvo D5 but more rev-happy.

Sorry, got carried away.

[fuelpump]

Hi  I have the same engine and was a bit concerned at the almost diesel like rattle when new.  After 1000 miles it now ticks over and drives really smooth however yours does sound a bit extreme. Think a trip to the agent.  I do use BP Ultimate unleaded  and I am convinced these engines run better on premium fuel. Let us know how you get on. Good Luck.

[vels]

Thank you both :-)

 

The car is a year old, nearing 30.000 km on the clock - so running in/breaking in is not the issue.

It's only when cold, going to work in the morning, starting in the afternoon at work and only for the first minute or so.

 

Been running Shell premium fuel on it from day 1, even got the engine oil changed at 15.000 km.

 

It's not really a noise issue

Edited 30 June, 2016 by vels

[jon15]

Any chance you could record a video so that we could hear how it sounds?

[fuelpump]

First thing to do is check OBD fault codes. I have heard that the CAT/LAMBDA  can cause problems until it reaches temperature  and would NOT give a fault code .Good Luck and keep us informed .

[vels]

Any chance you could record a video so that we could hear how it sounds?

 

Not really any recordable sound, it just coughs and pulls badly the first 500 - 1000 meters.

Wrote to the dealer yesterday, he acknowedged the noisy aircon pump ( which might be the rattle and pitching ), but would have to take a close look regarding the cold start drive issue.

 

Will update if/when there is news

[Amartha]

My 1.2TSI 110 (March 2015 car that I have owned from new) is now nearing 18k miles and has started to develop exactly the symptoms described by vels through this thread.  It is due to go in for service in 1500 miles or so; I will ask for it to be looked at during the service.  However, given that this thread has been dormant for a month, I was wondering if anyone else has had a problem and whether a solution was found or whether fuelpump's suggestion proved to be correct?

[Rooted]

It might be an idea to get it in early for the Oil & Filter Service and not wait the full variable servicing interval.

 

Check now at least with the Skoda Dealership if there is a Software Update for your car.

They likely will say at the Service Desk, 'We will not know until we have the car in.'

[Amartha]

The Skoda (official) response to this is that it is as a result of a system to promote rapid warming of the cat to reduce emissions on cold start - the technician reported that the (same) VW 1.2 engine behaves in the same manner in his Polo.

[Rooted]

Hopefully that Technician will take his Polo to a VW Technician with all the gear and some idea, and that does not believe it is as the Factory Engineers designed and manufactured it to sound and behave.

[TrevorB33]

Our 1.2tsi 90hp polo 6c has done the same from new I wouldn't worry, on 2500miles now and it's been the same

[glosrich]

Is it the throttle body gumming up causing the rough running?

[Amartha]

glosrich - Probably not, as it is not noticeable at any other time - though I have not checked. 

GoneOffSki - The Skoda official response was from Skoda's tech support area.  I was only able to scan the response the garage had received in response to their query to Skoda, but it was as I (heavily paraphrased) wrote in my last post.  As an engineer, I find it hard to believe that the VW/Skoda designer would have allowed his system to be delivered with this characteristic - though it was probably the only solution to an emissions problem and the funds had run out for further development!

 

Curiously, first cold start post-service, it didn't do it this morning... and in truth, as Trevor B33 wrote, it is not a significant issue to make it a concern and would only become so if it became more intrusive and for a longer duration.

[pauldazzle]

Our car Fabia does it occasionally, I'm guessing it's the secondary air intake doing it's thing to warm the cat up. I don't think it's anything to get too concerned about.

VAG 1.8T's have the SAI system which behaves in the same way & operates depending on temperature at cold start up.

[Rooted]

It is not a characteristic or an engineers solution.

They do not all behave badly and some Communications Manager generalising without actually getting in a car is as much in touch with VW Technology as they are with IT.

They work on the basis of give an answer, any answer but if the customer sucks it in, job done.

 

Anyway, it is now on social media and the VW 3 monkeys way counts for nothing now, time will tell if matters get worse or not, 

and at least something was received in writing dismissing there being any issues, and dealership employees will say they all do that.

They will be partly right, the noisiest ones are quite often annoying to the owner / driver, but not all are as bad.

 

We will mostly all drive cars on this forum and know about cold starts and quick warm ups and various noises, 

and mostly we know what is acceptable and a characteristic.

These Euro 6 engines are developments / evolutions of Euro 4 & Euro 5 but with design and software and hardware changes,

they are not supposed to be more economic, less polluting and noisier on start up.

That would be back to the future.

But then VW have trouble with manual gearboxes, door seals and various other things that after decades they can not perfect the manufacturing of 

or the fitting.

Edited 31 August, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Jordan_T]

Apologies for dragging up an old thread.

 

did anyone find a fix for this issue? Mine has started to do this at 37,000 miles. What nakes it worse is the engine judders horrendously and shakes the whole car when you try to move off! 

 

Extremely annoying. 

[krigl]

Pull the spark plugs and take a picture. If anything is wrong with combustion it is the first place to look for any odd colors and deposits and the easiest. 

I have 45 000 miles on my 110 which is actually tuned on top and is running just fine. Last two changes of spark plugs were perfect in color and not degraded on tips. Mind you I do spark plugs change well before OEM time intervals.

 

I cannot say anything regarding judder since my is DSG, but it could be flywheel problem. But your car has such low miles so I suspect that it is not flywheel. Does it emit a clunking noise during judders? Have you secured the intake pipe to the front mask to prevent it rattling also, just to take it out of consideration?

[Jordan_T]

Interesting. I know the sparks are soon due for a change anyway (at 40k) so I’ll pull them and see how they’re firing. 

 

I’m certain that the juddering is a engine management/mixture/ignition related problem linked to the “snorkling” start up sound as opposed to the clutch.

 

This morning I started it in gear (foot down on yhe clutch and left it in 1st gear) and it started fine. Tickover over at 750rpm and moved of lovely. 

 

When the engines warm, it’s an absolute superb! 

[krigl]

Just a question... When you take off just after you release the clutch completely, do you then push the throttle to max quickly or do you apply  it linear to max position for accelerating?

[Jordan_T]

Usually when it behaves like this I have to rev the engine to 2-3k with the clutch fully down and then ease the clutch up slowly. If I bribg the clutch up to bighting point and then apply throttle (no matter how slowly or quickly) it violently shakes. 

[krigl]

OK just for laughs, check the motor mounts or try to shake the engine while it is off and in neutral and see how easy it is... or how much play it has.

 

2-3k is quite high... on a straight parking space you should be able to slowly lift the clutch and drive away with no throttle input.

DSG for example... no throttle input, you lift the brake pedal and it rises revs to 1k and slowly applies the clutch and starts going. It should be the same for a manual, you should be able to start driving with no throttle input on a flat surface with a bit of clutch work but it should be smooth...