Honest John reports low torque issue with cheat fix

[stubie141258]

Problems reported on E189 fix with low torque and a supposed patch to fix the fix now needed

 

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/vag-20tdi-emissions-fix-reduces-torque-at-low-rpm/

 

 

Stubie

[Rustynuts]

"In fairness, so far, we have only received one other report of problems with VAG 189 TDI engines subsequent to the software fix."

 

Major problems then.

[lichfielddriver]

Factory should have evolved fixes with a dyno run after each version.....then a remap

 

this so gonna not be fun

[lichfielddriver]

Surely some motoring show, magazine or forum will check out post-fix performance? 

[terrytowelling]

If they reduce the emissions it's bound to affect performance, that's why they had to cheat

[terrytowelling]

I've had my 4x4 remapped so I'm not letting those buggers overwrite it

[StuartTunstall]

Surely some motoring show, magazine or forum will check out post-fix performance? 

 

I am damn sure the amount of cars that have now been done in the VAG range if there had been the slightest issue... by god the press would have heard about it!!!!! talk about "S*** hit fan" ... as there has been no press and bad publicity I can only presume that all the issues the press said "you will get" were lies...as usual with the press.... lies sells newspapers.... 

 

There must be 1000's of cars done now... have you also thought that some issues may be "in the owners head"?  "I have had the fix now issue xyz" .... 

 

In fact I had my car services a few weeks ago and the DSG seemed to change funny...maybe just me as it is OK now... 

 

In my opinion the lack of bad publicity is a good sign, along with reports I have had from Audi owners... 

[Breezy_Pete]

The weird thing about that HJ article is that the owner of the vehicle reported a "clatter", isn't that audible noise?

I don't see where the justification comes from to interpret that as a torque reduction.

[silver1011]

If there is an issue then it'll take time for the faults to reach the media.

It took at least 6 months for the issue with the injector recall to hit the mainstream media, and this affected all PD170 engines across the whole VAG range. Sometimes it takes time for the effects of the fault to be seen.

If the software patch has lowered emissions during everyday driving (and not just when it was in cheat mode) then there HAS to be a trade-off somewhere.

I imagine the vast majority of owners won't notice, it's just a car to them. Others however will.

The fact Honest John has mentioned it, and there has been a member on here who isn't happy post recall suggests we'll hear more.

Whether it gets reported in the news will depend how much more we will hear over the coming months.

Sent from my Kestrel using Tapatalk

Edited 17 July, 2016 by silver1011

[stubie141258]

In my view every driver knows their car, they spend time in it, listening to it and soon know if something is not right,

 

So in that case it is a perception matter, but if an owner feels that the fix has changed their car for the worse then they are entitled to that opinion. .

 

I think we will see more of these issues coming out.

 

Stubie

[lichfielddriver]

If they reduce the emissions it's bound to affect performance, that's why they had to cheat

 

The cheat wasnt for normal driving times tough, i read it only kicked when the vehicle ran in a straight line for several minutes at a constant speed..... hardly real life driving

 

As no car that has left the factory is likely to be tested ever again and the cheat was ONLY for test time why call them in for a fix?

 

 

How Did the System Work?

The software sensed when the car was being tested and then activated equipment that reduced emissions, United States officials said. But the software turned the equipment down during regular driving, increasing emissions far above legal limits, most likely to save fuel or to improve the car’s torque and acceleration.The software was modified to adjust components such as catalytic converters or valves used to recycle some of the exhaust gasses. 

Edited 17 July, 2016 by lichfielddriver

[chimaera]

 

The cheat wasnt for normal driving times tough, i read it only kicked when the vehicle ran in a straight line for several minutes at a constant speed..... hardly real life driving

 

As no car that has left the factory is likely to be tested ever again and the cheat was ONLY for test time why call them in for a fix?

 

It's this simple: without the cheat, the cars are NOT compliant with the emissions regulations they are obliged to meet. The cheat mode allowed the cars to operate in an emissions compliant state under testing conditions. Outside of test conditions, the car would operate differently with emissions that are outside the allowed levels. The fix is required in order to make the cars emissions compliant.

 

You can be damn sure that the fix will be independently tested on cars that have gone through the update process. For one thing the regulators will want to see that the cars are now emissions compliant. Beyond that, the level of coverage the problem has received in the media means there are plenty of interested parties out there who will want to see what has been changed.

 

It is actually possible to drive in emissions compliant mode on the road (i.e. trigger the cheat mode), it's just not a lot of fun and requires far too much of your attention to be focused on engine speed, gear selection and road speed to be safe.

[chimaera]

In my view every driver knows their car, they spend time in it, listening to it and soon know if something is not right,

 

So in that case it is a perception matter, but if an owner feels that the fix has changed their car for the worse then they are entitled to that opinion. .

 

I think we will see more of these issues coming out.

 

Stubie

 

The placebo effect is significant here.

 

There's a huge amount of negative expectation surrounding the fix due to the media coverage and discussions on forums like this one. That will colour your perception of any oddness that occurs in your car after the fix is applied.

 

Think about how you feel driving your car after a service. It often 'feels' better as a result of the service, even though there might be no objectively measurable difference in its performance afterwards. You expect the car to be working better after a service so it feels that way.

 

Conversely if something feels off afterwards, you might blame the service. The car has had work done and something is wrong afterwards so again there's a subconscious association between the two events even if there's no objective reason for it. The most common manifestation of this is when something that was failing anyway happens to fail just after a service. The immediate conclusion is that the service is to blame for the failure, but in reality it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

Really, what we need to see here are some proper lab tests carried out on several cars under identical conditions before and after the fix is applied. Full dyno run, emissions test, noise test. Organisations like TUV and AA need to step up to the plate here.

[stubie141258]

indeed I would agree, some consumer organisation must be checking these fixes, look what an Italian consumer group has found

 

http://www.hybridcars.com/volkswagens-diesel-fix-increases-nox-emissions-euro-consumer-group-says/

 

 

Stubie

[skippy41]

Had my Skoda superb done last week and it feels like you need to give it more throttle when driving slowly, as it feels like it wants to stall in 3rd

[Breezy_Pete]

Had my Skoda superb done last week and it feels like you need to give it more throttle when driving slowly, as it feels like it wants to stall in 3rd

Probably running a higher EGR rate than before. 

Presumably no noticeable difference at high power levels (EGR inactive then).

[lichfielddriver]

More throttle=more juice=less MPG

[lichfielddriver]

Had my Skoda superb done last week and it feels like you need to give it more throttle when driving slowly, as it feels like it wants to stall in 3rd

 

 

let us know the new mpg figures skip

[Spanner3566]

Just recently had my 15 plate 2.0 140 Bus. edition estate recalled and updated.

For the record there's a louder exhaust note (in cabin) and a slight dip in performance and economy...this is extremely marginal but after 67K in one year from new I feel I know the girl.

[silver1011]

Don't do it guys, sign the form and give it back to Skoda...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/403828-just-refused-the-vag-emissions-recall/