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timing belt tensioner moves while rotating the crankshaft


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Hi,
i am doing a DIY time belt change
I did everything as it should be. Everything was changed as should be and the timing tools were used.

Problem is that the hydraulic tensioner moves when rotating (two spins) on the crankshaft. The nut is set to 20nM + 45 torque, and the pointer is in the middle of the set position.
I did it two times and again it moves and it stops 3mm of the middle to the left.
I don't wanna do it again ...not to damage the nut on the tensioner.
and Although the belt is set on the middle everywhere, after to rotation, it moves to the inner edge of the camshaft?

Can i leave it like this - any advice is appreciated.

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thanks for quick responds...boy, i need it :)

Now, it gives me comfort that it is ok for the tensioner to move while rotating the crankshaft by hand.

but what buggers me the most is why the hell the belt moves to the inner edge of the camshaft sprocket, when i am 100% sure i set it on the middle.

I haven't check it with VCDS yet, (car is in part - front off), but i know now that it is going to be spot on 0.0 but will jump +0.5, -0.5 while hot (at certain rmps - and at this moments i can feel a bit rough running). (the most prob due to moving of the cam belt line on the camshaft sprocket, when running)
This same thing happened with my old belt in place (that was the reason, i started this job) and with the fact, that when with the engine cold the marker of the tensioner was about more than 1 cm off to the left from the marking..
 

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can you run a straight edge along the pulleys? may be that one isn't set correctly on it's mounting. The tensioner will move a bit as the belt rotates, that is why most of them now are either sprung or damped as it allows a certain amount of belt deflection to occur due to the uneven movement of the crank (it slows on the upstroke and speeds up on the downstroke - although it's not noticeable when the engine is running due to the speeds it is travelling at, around 15 complete rotations per second at idle of 950rpm!)

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thank you.

i was very carefull when installing the pully s  ...all seams to be in order.

 

ok i think i will leave it at that ..and see what happens  :)

 

if it will be any different with engine running, ill deal with that then

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huh

i am happy to say - car is back together and sterted from the first try.

in VCDS KW shows 0.0

Tensioner is spot on in the middle - so  the tension of  the belt should be ok

but immediatelly i have heared some rubbing noise from the timing belt.

i checked and i see movement of the belt on the tensioner (left to right ...for a half of mmm- 1 mm)

i stop the engine and the belt is now completely on the inner edge of the camshaft or even half of mm over.

 

Is  this normal - will this aligne itselfe out or i need to dismantle everything again? but i am sure i aligned the belt when i had put it on

thx

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If its ridden right to the edge I doubt it will come back across. I would be tempted to try and push the belt further onto all of the pulleys if possible and then run the engine again, it may settle out where it is then.

 

It wouldn't worry me if it was to one side but it shouldn't be hanging off any of the pulleys

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ok is as fallows
i said i will try to run the engine and see what happends
started a car again - first try
rubbing present
i do get a clancking noise seams from the 1st cylinder, even vhen hot (at idle)- louder then usual for diesel
what are posible couses for this?
when engine hot the KW is -0.5
i get more vibrations at idle than i used to - but this should be sorrted when adjusting injection timing

the timing belt is half of mm of the cam
it is true that i have the cam sprocket turned almost to the edge (the 3 nuts) to the right (almost completely to the clockwise - not in the middle  - is maybe this why the belt is on the inner edge?

 

and the nidlle of the tensioner is 1 mm off the plate with the engine hot, cold is ot the spot (ok?)

Edited by pinstripe
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hi
here is a link to video i took, to hear the ticking noise - that was not there before the belt change (or at least not that loud)
would be due to the incorrect timing for this car? lifters ? or something else.


https://sendvid.com/ggipshn0

end here is enclosed pic of hot engine & tensioner position

post-48946-0-71247000-1470862777_thumb.jpg

Edited by pinstripe
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Could difference in sound be because you are running with no water, no belt cover and no engine cover / noise insulation?

The ERWIN manual says position may move up to 5mm from the gap in the base plate:

"When tightening the fixing nut, the pointer turns -arrow- max. 5 mm to the right from the gap of the base plate. This position must not be corrected, because the toothed belt settles when running- in."

 

The far right edge of the base plate has been dimensioned I believe to show the 5mm - so if you are past the edge of the base plate it is too far I think.  if you are on the base plate you are within the 5mm spec.  I also think as car warms up it moves further to the right.  Depending on exactly where in the engine rotation you are when you stop the car the pointer will be in a slightly different position too I believe.  So it looks to me like you are just about ok on the pointer position.  But I'm not a mechanic.

 

I think usually you aim to be just on the positive side, but I doubt it makes much difference.

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thanks jimbof

it seats properly on the backplate ..this last pic is hot running engine
as i understand, it moves a bit from cold to hot - but this might be a bit over ( maybe due to rubbering sound - belt going to the edge of camshaft sprocket and rubbing on the inner plate of the tensioner?

yes, the car was just warming up and even when hot it makes that ticking noise - it is present way to much to be normal.

I read it might have been due to IP - to adjust the cam sprocket to + or - ?

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FYI I made this video for you of my engine running from more-or-less cold:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=026GdE4GUfE

It has a slight rattle - it has always had this since I got it at 38K miles, 185K miles now.  You can hear it in certain positions of the camera.  Without sound proofing it is louder.  No garage I ever showed thought it was anything at all important.

 

Note the tensioner position.  I installed my belt 15K miles ago.  When I installed it the tensioner arrow would always be towards the right a lot more than this, and even more when engine is hot.  The belt has obviously loosened up a little over the miles.  This is why the manual tells you not to "game" the tensioner by making it end up in the middle, as the belt will stretch a little and then the tension will be low.  Now the belt will be to the right if the engine is warm, but when cold it runs more or less in the middle of the gap.

 

My new belt /tensioner also runs the belt towards the rear, but doesn't catch on anything.

 

Some photos here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-_YzKUQ1hkzU1ZfM2dXbE9oR0k

 

Arrow position at right is cold engine, but after engine was stopped hot.

Arrow position in centre is cold engine, but after engine was stopped cold.

But these are all new belt +15K miles.

Edited by jimbof
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huh jimbof

great effort..

i am very grateful for this...many thanks ..really

 

i have by now changed the position of the timing belt and the tensioner 3 times ...and with same results

always end just like yours (i see this now) at the inner edge. And the tensioner is spot on with the arrow at the position and when hot it is just past the metal plate.

once again - no matter what i do it turns like this

 

so i guess this is how it should be (i can be smart no more - at least until i do some millage with it and to see what it will turned out)

engine starts form first crank

ticking, clancking still present...

 

i did noticed  from VCDS i have the KW spot on 0.0

the kw torsion is jumping from 7.7 to 8.3 (before the belt change 7.1 or 7.7

injection quantity is now 7.3 (is this still good) before i had it 4.9 (5.3 at first try of cam belt change)

what worries me now, i noticed the injection q from injectors got much more higher then before the belt change ( 0.3-0.5 max or the same in the - value ) now i have it on the second 1.5 and on forth -0.9 ?

can this depend on inj. timing ( if i now decide to play with it like to put it to KW 1.0 or -1.5)?

 

maybe is all this just my frustration...i don't know

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huh jimbof

great effort..

i am very grateful for this...many thanks ..really

 

i have by now changed the position of the timing belt and the tensioner 3 times ...and with same results

always end just like yours (i see this now) at the inner edge. And the tensioner is spot on with the arrow at the position and when hot it is just past the metal plate.

once again - no matter what i do it turns like this

 

so i guess this is how it should be (i can be smart no more - at least until i do some millage with it and to see what it will turned out)

engine starts form first crank

ticking, clancking still present...

 

i did noticed  from VCDS i have the KW spot on 0.0

the kw torsion is jumping from 7.7 to 8.3 (before the belt change 7.1 or 7.7

injection quantity is now 7.3 (is this still good) before i had it 4.9 (5.3 at first try of cam belt change)

what worries me now, i noticed the injection q from injectors got much more higher then before the belt change ( 0.3-0.5 max or the same in the - value ) now i have it on the second 1.5 and on forth -0.9 ?

can this depend on inj. timing ( if i now decide to play with it like to put it to KW 1.0 or -1.5)?

 

maybe is all this just my frustration...i don't know

 

You say you have it spot on...

Does it NEVER move away from 0.0? (you said earlier it does move, just cheking)

It should wobble to a slightly different value as engine goes up in temperature.

I read somewhere if it is stuck dead at 0.0 and never wobbles then it is actually OUTSIDE the reportable range.

 

I don't know about those values.  This was my first belt change and I followed the information out there.  The belt position concerned me a little,as it did seem slightly further back than the original wear marks on the cam gear, 15K miles on would say it looks all good to me though. :)

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  • 1 month later...

ok guys...just to recap

thanks all for your inputs and this topic can be considered SOLVED

 

i didn't want to come to conclusions before i do some millage with new installation.

So, after few k miles; the engine runs as before the belt change  (due to KW being -2.9 prior the change and now 0.0, it drinks a bit more fuel). I get more down torque though...

it cranks immediately and always.

The position of the belt is on the inner edge; but i am in peace with it. Belt tension-er is now more or less in range or a bit off the plate when hot.

More or less i am happy with the outcome

 

I did play with the inj timing but i decided to leave it on 0.0.

 

I do get some kind of sweet coolant sort of smell at the start up ...but i am not loosing any coolant ...

I get s shloohing sound from the dash like an air is trapped in the heater matrix (especially when accelerating; that was present even before the belt change); but it is not, couse i have ventilated that vent hole numerous of times with no result.... a mystery... (just maybe; a egr cooler) ??

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  • 6 years later...

Hi Pinstripe,

 

I just wonder if you could please give another update on how your timing belt behaved over time? Did you have any further issues? I recently changed my belt, rollers and water pump using an skf-kit and have the same experience as

you. The belt is drifting towards the inner edge. Especially on the crankshaft sprocket the clearance is low. So if you did not have any further issues I might have more peace of mind :-)

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