Serious Q - What to do with Motorway Queue Jumpers?

[2SkodaFamily]

An actual scenario experienced by me the other day.

 

Motorway lane closure due to an accident. Lane closure signposted WELL in advance, followed by the Arrow signs indicating that the lane was closing (arrow from Lane 1 into Lane 2, with Lane 2 and 3 shown as continuing) followed by Lane Closed signs with the distance (800yd, 600yd, 400yd, 200yd etc). Total distance from first warning of the lane closure to the actual lane closure was well over a mile of stop/start traffic doing, at most, 10mph.

 

Multiple cars in lane 1 jump the queue and join lane 2 with about 100m of their lane left due to the generosity of other drivers in Lane 2.

 

However, this one car was determined that he did not want to join lane 2 with ten cars in front, 5 in front, or even 2. He wanted to leave it to the VERY last second and literally force - bully - his way in. I'm afraid I dug my heels in and refused. He got ever closer until I was sure that he was going to hit me. I moved a couple of feet to the right and accelerated a little. However what I didn't realise till afterwards was that as he was edging closer to me, he had his window down and was trying to punch my car because I refused to let him bully his way in front of me. My wife was in the car behind and told me about it later. It was dark and I wasn't looking at him.

 

Afterwards, I contemplated this and was a bit cross with myself for allowing a situation to develop, but then I thought "hang on, we teach our kids to stand up to bullies and not back down to them. Also it's people like him that make lane closures run slowly as each lane has to brake to accommodate the queue jumpers."

 

So I'm genuinely interested in your views. Should we give in (and give way) to idiots like this? Would that encourage and reinforce their selfish behaviour? Or should we be intolerant of queue jumpers and send them a clear message that it's not on?

Edited 28 August, 2016 by 2SkodaFamily

[Rustynuts]

So someone wanted to merge right at the point where the lane ended and traffic was told to merge?

[2SkodaFamily]

So someone wanted to merge right at the point where the lane ended and traffic was told to merge?

Basically scraped the cones up the left side of their car. Couldn't physically have left it any later.

[250vrs]

Leave them let them do what they want and don't let them spoil your day... Speaking from experience, I have had it done to me lots of times, but, fortunate or unfortunate I have been in an unmarked police car, caught the whole incident on camera and had a jolly out to court...

Keep smiling mate don't let them win

Andy

[Rustynuts]

So they didn't actually do anything but use the available road to its fullest capacity, and all the traffic in lane 2 were making the queue longer than it needed to be?

[Rooted]

The system is what it is and those that do the lane closures know exactly what happens, and the last time the same subject was on here people seemed to agree you must let people in other wise you are being a road captain.

HGV's sometimes do the business and blocks the lanes where they feel they can.

[2SkodaFamily]

So they didn't actually do anything but use the available road to its fullest capacity, and all the traffic in lane 2 were making the queue longer than it needed to be?

If everyone merged in good time there'd be no need for those at the front to brake to let selfish ******* in. It's them that make the queue run more slowly by barging in at the front.

You'd object to someone pushing in in front of any other type of queue: why should they get away with it just because they're driving a car?

[2SkodaFamily]

Leave them let them do what they want and don't let them spoil your day... Speaking from experience, I have had it done to me lots of times, but, fortunate or unfortunate I have been in an unmarked police car, caught the whole incident on camera and had a jolly out to court...

Keep smiling mate don't let them win

Andy

What's the police view on someone standing their ground then? (As long as it doesn't end in handbags at dawn across the car bonnet?)

[philbes]

The system is what it is and those that do the lane closures know exactly what happens, and the last time the same subject was on here people seemed to agree you must let people in other wise you are being a road captain.

HGV's sometimes do the business and blocks the lanes where they feel they can.

The HGVs are not 'doing the business'. ALL of the lanes are available until the restriction is reached. The HGVs are simply blocking available open lanes.

The correct way to approach such restrictions is to use all available lanes and then for the traffic to mutually merge. e.g., use the 'zipper' method of alternate cars merging.

[Rustynuts]

The HGVs are not 'doing the business'. ALL of the lanes are available until the restriction is reached. The HGVs are simply blocking available open lanes.

The correct way to approach such restrictions is to use all available lanes and then for the traffic to mutually merge. e.g., use the 'zipper' method of alternate cars merging.

Correct.

[Breezy_Pete]

I tend to do what you did 2SF. 

The zipper thing's American isn't it? Not in our highway code is it?

[RobClubley]

Most efficient use of the road is to form queues in both lanes and "merge like a zip" as the signs say in NZ. It works well here. There's the odd one who closes the gap but generally it works smoothly.

We don't have the volume of traffic that the UK does.

[Rooted]

Where the HGV's sometimes step in which they have no more right to do than anyone else is see what is happening, and that the zip is not zipping and the selfish are causing maybe the inside lane to become static as others move over to let those in from closed lanes.

 

As it is nobody should be road captains, but a stand off causes all sorts of crap to happen and it often does.

[Phil-E]

It's a tricky one. Although you are supposed to merge at the end of the lane it sounds like he left it very late. You also still have right of way and don't have to let him in.

That said who knows what kind of person is behind the wheel. For all you know it's a stolen car and they wouldn't think twice about hitting you and driving off etc.

As much as I agree you have to stand your ground it's sometimes best to take the high ground and just let them get on with it and keep your distance.

[philbes]

I tend to do what you did 2SF. 

The zipper thing's American isn't it? Not in our highway code is it?

You may find this useful to read:

http://www.infsq.co.uk/2011/02/merge-in-turn/comment-page-1/

From the Highway Code :

"Rule 134 - You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed."

Edited 28 August, 2016 by philbes

[Nathanio]

I don't get this mentality of someone queue jumping if they carry on down the lane that is merging.

Zip merging is the most efficient use of space and would cut back on tail backs. But for some reason riles up British drivers. Go to most other countries and they merge at the point of obstruction.

I always go to the obstruction to merge, not because I want "push in" bit because it is the most logical thing to do. If people acted a bit more like considerate adults then the traffic would flow better. Indicate in plenty of time and then wait for someone who isn't pig headed to let you in one by one.

It isn't rocket science.

[Breezy_Pete]

Thanks for the info philbes,

 

"Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate"

 

Clearly when there are pig-headed folk like me or the OP at the head of the 'to be merged into' lane, it isn't  safe to do so, even if it is appropriate, so anyone who tries to force their way in is in contravention of this rule. 

 

Ta. :sun:

[KBPhoto]

When does merging too early become merging too late? 500yds, 300? 100? 10yds?

Using lane 1 for as long as possible and merging in turn is recommended; so why don't more people use lane 1 for longer, reduce the length of queueing traffic a little and stop this issue of 'pushing in' at the last second?

There is no indication as to when the merging should take place, but 'close' to the point where you have to seems logical.

Edited 29 August, 2016 by KBPhoto

[Auric Goldfinger]

The HGVs are not 'doing the business'. ALL of the lanes are available until the restriction is reached. The HGVs are simply blocking available open lanes.

The correct way to approach such restrictions is to use all available lanes and then for the traffic to mutually merge. e.g., use the 'zipper' method of alternate cars merging.

 

 

Correct.

 

+ one, Correct Answer

[StevesTruck]

It's not like your actions are actually going to teach him anything. He'll still be a knob tomorrow. Just let him get on with it.

Unless you're driving a £300 van like I often am, then see how far they get in their nice shiny audi or whatever before they realise you don't give a flying **** if they drive into it.

I had it in London once where some lad in a convertible BMW with the roof down had gone way, way past the point the lanes merged. He was trying to barge me at low speed from the right.

I was driving a blue, rusted to death l-reg transit.

He went off the idea when I yelled "scuse me fella. Do you like that car? Only, this vans ****. Do you mind crashing into it so I can have a new one?"

Edited 29 August, 2016 by StevesTruck

[Furbytom]

If more people had the sense to use the open lane for longer the queue in the middle lane might not have stretched so far back.

There is no rule about when and where traffic should be merging so long as it's done before the onset of the cones. Getting angry with people who make use of the open lane for longer than you chose to isn't helpful or worth the stress imho. Seeing them as "queue jumpers" in the first place is part of the problem.

Sure, leaving it right to the last moment isnt sensible and there is no excuse for the level of aggression described in the first post but it's far better to just let people in at this point rather than get involved in a conflict. Stubbornly refusing to let someone merge at the merge-point and causing an incident is just daft imho.

[Rooted]

He / She who dares wins.

[Huskoda]

Lots of people in the UK seem to have issues with other people using the other lane. Why don't they use that lane themselves? What particularly irritates me is the ignorant morons who straddle the middle so noone can use the other lane past their position, usually with a long distance still in front of them. Several times I've even seen them so far over that the person in the left lane tries to pass them and then the idiot starts jumping side to side to stop anyone passing on either side. It happens regularly on the M621 where it narrows before the merge from Halfords.

[Rustynuts]

If everyone merged in good time there'd be no need for those at the front to brake to let selfish ******* in. It's them that make the queue run more slowly by barging in at the front.

You'd object to someone pushing in in front of any other type of queue: why should they get away with it just because they're driving a car?

If you look at the situation as 2 separate queues joining together at one doorway, it's more logical. You can choose which queue you take but ultimately both end up at the same place doing the same thing. If people choose to take the longer queue (you) then that's up to them, but if people take the shorter queue (the supposed queue jumpers) then who's being stupid? Everyone has a right to use the available road, and the road is still available until the cones at the merge point. Just use it and merge at the last moment as you're supposed to, or sit in traffic grumbling about queue jumpers, whatever floats your boat. But deciding who drives where and placing yourself in the position of judge by deciding not to let someone in is looking for trouble.

[Breezy_Pete]

And forcing your way in is looking for peace and love?