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Fuel Problem


survey

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Wife's Yeti started returning approx 15% worse fuel consumption. My MB just returning about 20% worse. She has just had new tyres and mine new front pads. My car seems OK regarding brakes as no apparent rubbing of pads. However a common factor is recent fill-up of each tank with fuel. So I wonder if there was a bad batch of fuel.

So should we just fill up with some quality diesel and do we need additives such as Millers? Would the injectors be affected?

Hope next diesel fill up will sort this.

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Anything to do with summer time and warmer weather, or wetter weather, or just weather?

 

Were the tyres like for like replacements other than the new ones being full size?

Did you check and reset the tyre pressures.

 

Did your car get the tyre pressures adjusted when having the brake pads changed?

Have both cars got clean / new air filters in now giving the best chance of better MPG.

 

Where do you buy your diesel, ie which Brand of fuel.

Hundreds of other motorists will have bought the same fuel from the same tank / retailer.

(unless the tanks were near empty.)

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PS

In Scotland Greenergy that supply Tesco Filling Stations also supply Esso Diesel & Esso Fuels.

Same as in other locations around the UK.

Yes and No, there are fewer refineries in UK these days, but they store basic fuel straight from the refinery process (diesel in UK is normally a grade known as EN590) At the tanker filling rack there are relatively small additive tanks for each retailer, and additives are added and blended into the individual road tankers depending on where they go (the additives are a tiny part). A tanker for Tesco wont have exactly the same mixture as one for Esso even if loaded at same location.

One other reason to avoid diesel and go for petrol, is that these days a few percent isn't diesel, but a biodiesel product which degrades easily if not stored well or used quickly. Yes it would be full of micro-organism which is going to clog the engine and reduce efficiency.

Next time you fill up, look at the pump, might be giant letters saying diesel, but somewhere in small print probably have the grade of fuel.

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?

Do you mean the Minimum Octane of the petrol, ie 95 Unleaded or 97 Super Unleaded or 99 Minimum as with Tesco Momentum 99 or Shell V-Power Nitro+ ?

 

 

With the diesels they might not have the same additive package, but they meet minimum standard.

Try looking for the Minimum Cetane on the Diesel Pumps.

Let us know what it says at Asda, Morrisons, Sainsburys, Gulf, Esso, Texaco, Shell, Costco, BP, etc

http://greenergy.com/what-we-do/infrastructure

http://greenergy.com/buying/independent

http://greenergy.com/buying

Edited by GoneOffSKi
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You aren't using "supermarket fuel"? Seriously; I've seen someone's records that show 15 to 20% worse consumption on Tesco diesel than on a mixture of Esso and BP.

 

Well either "someone" uses an outlet where they don't measure the fuel delivery properly, or they're not very good at maths.

I have kept fuel logs for all my cars for the last 10 years and I do about 30,000 miles a year - can say there's bugger all difference in economy between supermarket and "premium" brands.

 

The *only* difference is if you use a super unleaded in a car designed to run on it. And even then it matters not if the super unleaded is Tesco, Sainsburys or BP/Shell/Esso.

 

In the winter diesel engines use more fuel because the fuel companies change the mix of the fuel to make it perform better in the cold months.

Edited by 137699
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Here we go, supermarket fuels are crap!!
They have to provide the same standards as Shell, Mobil etc.
I have not noticed any difference in fuel consumption using any of them and probably use Tesco fuels 95% of the time in the Yeti and my motorcycle.
On highly tuned vehicles premium fuels have to be used and I think a fill of those every 5 or 6 tankfuls are beneficial for other cars due to the extra cleaning additives.

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Re post #7

It does matter in many VW Group petrols if it is UK Super Unleaded 97 Octane minimum, 

or 99 octane minimum from Tesco / Shell and now some Costco.

Just as 100-102 Octane Super Unleaded available on Mainland Europe can make a fair difference from 97 Octane.

 

Recommended Super 98 by VW.

Obviously UK Super Unleaded is 97 ron minimum unless you buy a higher octane, but where VW do give information 

or a sticker in a Fuel Flap of a EU vehicle it sells with Super Unleaded recommended it shows 98 / Super  & the 95 min.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

Edited by GoneOffSKi
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Here we go, supermarket fuels are crap!!

They have to provide the same standards as Shell, Mobil etc.

I have not noticed any difference in fuel consumption using any of them and probably use Tesco fuels 95% of the time in the Yeti and my motorcycle.

On highly tuned vehicles premium fuels have to be used and I think a fill of those every 5 or 6 tankfuls are beneficial for other cars due to the extra cleaning additives.

 

The basic fuel is the same, agreed, but the supermarkets do not use the same additives or they use smaller quantities of those additives.

Typically Tesco use less anti-foaming agent in their diesel and most of the supermarkets add little or no cleaners to their fuels.

 

(My late father was an Esso Bulk Plant manager!)

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http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/409492-what-fuel-do-costco-use

 

If you are using this cleaner diesel fuel and your engine is running very efficiently then putting in several tanks of a diesel with less cleaning agents (detergents) is not going to have the engine running less efficiently.

A lower cetane might, but then they are not selling diesel with a higher cetane.

 

Supermarkets add nothing.  Others like the producers or delivery transporters do.

They buy wholesale,in bulk, on various markets, and different markets around the world,

 get it delivered and sell retail to customers.

Edited by GoneOffSKi
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Supermarkets add nothing.  Others like the producers or delivery transporters do.

They buy wholesale,in bulk, on various markets, and different markets around the world,

 get it delivered and sell retail to customers.

 

Wrong!

Most of the supermarkets buy from the big 3 fuel producers in this country, which is why you will see tankers from Esso, BP, Texaco, Morrisons or Tesco filling up at the same bulk plants, together. 

There are a few "importers" buying from the Amsterdam Free Trade area, typically the likes of Dragon Petroleum in Wales.

 

DVSA can dip a tank and know from the dyes and chemical traces added who the retailer was, even if you have a cocktail in your tank.

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The Supermarkets add nothing.  Staff at supermarkets.  if you read as written.  and in reply to your post. #10

 

We know about additives, we know the claims etc.

We pay Tax and Duty on the fuel we buy, we pay for additives, we also cover the cost of advertising & 

profits which might be greater on branded fuels.

They are not necessarily better fuels at providing energy because of detergents.

In fact some are less efficient in some engines but must provide the energy we pay for and pay Tax & Duty on.

 

The buyers for supermarkets for filling stations the supermarkets might or might not own might well buy what they buy and without the additive package.   

 

Refined Diesel supplied by the big 3 you talk of can come from anywhere around the world before being processed or not, as can petrol. Then additives may or may not be added as required by retailers and end users.

http://platts.com/latest-news/oil/london/uk-still-buying-winter-gasoline-as-european-refiners-8114744

 

PS.

Markers do not give the Retailer.

Possibly the producer and wholeseller / distributor of the fuels, but not who sold it to the person that has the fuel in the tank.

Rebated Fuel Markers and Motorsport use etc is different again.

http://oceanoptics.com/authentication-fuel

Edited by GoneOffSKi
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I was not complaining about supermarket fuel as I had never had a problem at this outlet. Although both cars had had work on them, the only common factor would be the fuel.

On my MB after 400 miles the consumption has improved and I have now just started putting a Redex diesel additive in the tank in case and c**p has reached the injectors

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So what fuel was it and bought where?

 

Maybe your wife's car will need a new fuel filter.

But if you think contaminated fuel was sold contact the owners of the filling station in writing and express your concerns and get a reply 

seeing what they say.

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my i20 lived its first year being fed morrisons petrol and what I noticed was a steady decrease in mpg, from low 50's to mid 40's, I then changed jobs in February and now do a lot more miles and a fuel card so now use branded fuel mainly and slowly the mpg has come back up I am now mid 50's

 

I occasionally use supermarket fuels now and notice no real difference in mpg so basic fuel appears the same

 

but with the initial slow drop off and gradual improvement in mpg once branded fuel is used it could be viewed as lack of cleaners in the supermarket fuel, then once branded fuel used it did what is claimed and cleaned the fuel system / engine

 

the only other conclusion is the first year it did mainly short runs with the odd longer run, since February it has been doing long runs and 500+miles a week, has this help settle the rings, burn off rubbish and clean the engine?

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I stand to be corrected but I think all fuels now have at least 5% bio while I think Morrisons might have 15%. Some engines are not so happy with the extra additional bio.

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Just found this on the Tesco web site.

"All our fuels are refined on our behalf with performance additives and detergents designed to clean and protect your engine."

So they are claiming that they are not just a base fuel meeting the BS spec. I guess you pay your money and take your choice.

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There's a lot of very effective advertising though.

Agreed but it would be easy for say WHICH in the UK to test and prove either way, Tesco have had issues but I wonder whether they'd make such a claim and do nothing at all to the base product?

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If there was a significant difference, you'd think the service manager would have something to say if it had any effect on reliability etc.

I use the popular, high sales outlets for the freshest fuel.

Edited by Ryeman
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Just found this on the Tesco web site.

"All our fuels are refined on our behalf with performance additives and detergents designed to clean and protect your engine."

So they are claiming that they are not just a base fuel meeting the BS spec. I guess you pay your money and take your choice.

 

I think they may be trying to imply that but without actually saying it - they don't actually mention the BS EN 590 standard in that statement.  That's marketing for you.  AIUI "raw" diesel ie as it comes out of the basic refining process has to have stuff added to it in order to meet certain of the performance specifications in the standard.

 

I stand to be corrected but I think all fuels now have at least 5% bio while I think Morrisons might have 15%.

 

 

According to this, the standard allows "up to 7% Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME) biodiesel".  That suggests that selling diesel including 15% biodiesel would be illegal.

 

FWIW I normally use supermarket diesel (mainly Sainsburys) and my engine has been trouble-free to date.  My brim-to-brim fuel consumption doesn't indicate any detectable MPG benefit on the odd occasions that I've had to pay the extra for branded fuel: sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse.  The types of journeys that I'm doing and the behaviour of my right foot probably have more influence on fuel economy than the odd millilitre of woo juice and a focused marketing budget.  (I suspect that the fuel manufacturers would have to take a lot more care in the wording of their advertising if they were subject to the same restrictions that health food companies now are.)

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http://www.tescopfs.com/our-fuels/tesco-diesel

 

The largest additive package is added to their exclusive Tesco Momentum 99.

So that is clear enough and you can find the ron / mon for that.

For the Diesel additives then maybe ask Tesco Customer Services if you can be bothered.

Or like millions of other drivers just buy the fuel and drive.

Edited by GoneOffSKi
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