Flywheel replacement cost and what choices

[Meow]

I believe I may need a new one but not yet sure. I ask this assuming I'm going to need a replacement.

 

Superb MkII CR140 4x4. 117K

 

Likely, ballpark figure please. I know there will be variation across the country and garages, but I mean, very very rough idea of what I'm looking at.

 

I've seen various products listed on parts sites but that's meaningless, like getting a new gas boiler i.e.its the labour that make it expensive, right ?  So I as a layman have no idea of what to expect.

 

As to choice - I have discovered that a solid flywheel is a simpler, long lasting thing and a "dual mass" affair is going to be smoother and quieter.

I'd prefer the latter ! This car is noisy enough as it is in general !!! ( a huge disappointment really )

B.t.w. Does anyone know what I have already ? Normal v's "dual mass" ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chimaera]

Your only choice is the OE dual-mass flywheel. The common rail engines don't tolerate single mass flywheels very well.

 

Parts and labour are both pricey, though I can't give specifics having not had to replace it on my car yet. On my '99 Passat, parts were €500 for clutch and DMF kit, labour was most of a day. You're likely to be in similar territory if not higher on the Superb.

[Meow]

My confusion over flywheel type arose over the contradiction between on the one hand, various people referring to "dual mass" as long as I could remember, that it was a given, and then for a temporary service manager who was up from another group branch telling me, no its not a dual mass flywheel. ( I suspected he was wrong ). I am happy that it is dual mass, since I am given to understand this has benefits for smoothness and quietness, which is what I want.

 

So labour for half a day, right ? So overall, what might this come to, parts and labour ?

[TheRobinK]

The temp service manager is wrong - a 2.0 CR  has a DMF. I've heard here that 1.6 CR diesels may have a single mass but definitely not the 2.0 CR.

 

I was told last year that 2.0 CR Passat / Superb DMF's cost around €700 (that's in Ireland) to replace. I'm guessing that will be at least £600 in the UK?

 

(EDIT - Actually - looking at the other posts here I think I was just told the labour cost!!!)

Edited 21 September, 2016 by TheRobinK

[octyal]

Where abouts are you? someone may be able to give you a contact for a local garage to get a quote off them. Do you know the engine code? If so I can certainly get you part numbers and an approximate labour time, which will give you a very rough idea

[chimaera]

Labour charges vary between garages so you'll have to phone around.

 

Diesel cars have almost universally used DMFs since the late 90s since they offer better NVH performance than a single mass flywheel. Older engines could tolerate a switch to a single mass if you were willing to put up with the noise.

[Meow]

I want to keep dual mass and should anyway if that's standard on the CR140. Glad it is too.

 

Labour charges are likely to be on the higher side of average.

 

I just want a rough idea of what would be "average", all in.

[octyal]

as a rough guide you are looking at 6.8 hours - at a very conservative labour cost of £50p/h you would be looking at around £340 upwards for labour (plus vat), parts wise DMF £365, clutch £285 (taken from Micks garage website - inc vat) so I would say about £1000 or there about

[Meow]

Its DSG box by the way. Does that affect the price / clutch / whether clutch gets replaced ?

[softscoop]

Yes totally.

 

A DSG flywheel is totally different to a manual box.

 

You don't need to change the clutches at the same time as they do not touch the flywheel, on a DSG the clutch packs are inside the gearbox housing.

 

There seem to be several different options for flywheels for DSG on the Superb, but they are all £300 and under at http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/

Edited 21 September, 2016 by softscoop

[octyal]

Its DSG box by the way. Does that affect the price / clutch / whether clutch gets replaced ?

 

That's a whole different kettle of fish. The DSG 6 clutch you can get from Darkside developments at about £250 I think, DMF will need replacing too.

 

First thing to do is to check the service history, as the transmission oil and filter are recommended to be changed every 40k miles (if they aren't, then that's what causes the most issues with the DSG 6) most people however, change it at a round 30k miles, to ensure that the transmission will last. Labour wise, it will probably be similar price by the time you factor in consumables, such as oil and filter

[Meow]

Okay thanks folks.

 

I'll have to actually have the rough, ratchety noises diagnosed as to whether its flywheel or auto-clutch or both, are involved.

 

Its a bit weird and ambiguous really. For ages in the past I had various rough, rattly sounds come and go, typically at idle. Several people, including a non dealer garage and two AA men ( who were out for flat tyre and for battery ) had mentioned they thought I had a flywheel problem. The non dealer garage also tied a whine, most particularly at certain revs/speeds to the flywheel, in all liklihood. I did mention all this to the dealer, who never really went anywhere with it. Curiously the intermittent rattleyness at idle went away recently and now I have a more worrying set of noises in motion. The whinyiness remains.

 

Here's where it gets controversial. I mentioned flywheel to the dealer several times and cited the other casual opinions given. I expressly mentioned that I worried if there was a flywheel issue that it should be sorted out before the end of the 100K extended warranty. The last I got was, " watch it and see". What was that supposed to mean - or do ? Well 100K has passed and now what ? The rattleness at idle seemed to go or is certainly reduced but now as I say, a probably more serious manifestation of a problem of some kind, indicated by the ratchety, gritty change downs as the car nears to slow speed, especially without gas applied and also boomy, rough sound when I re-engage gas. Its very hard to describe really. But the overriding point here surely is, if there was a flyheel problem before, then would have been the time to deal with it, in warranty, rather than "watch it and see" ( meaningless ) as the car sails past it's warranty cover.

 

I don't know what to do or say.

[Meow]

I'll add, the noise of the car in general has been a real disappoi8tnment. The Superb was reputed to be a quiet car, but it just isn't.

 

I compare not only with the likes of Merc and Audi but perhaps more fairly, with Ford and Peugeot - I'm talking about the engines here. That VW 2 litre deisel just is not near as smooth and quiet as the units made by Peugeot and Ford. And also I suspect, Skoda have not bothered to put a substantial wall between engine and cabin. It sucks.

 

Road noise is poor also and that's another story. Oh its quiet when the road is quiet. But its a fairweather quiet car. As soon as the road is rough, it really comes through, very unlike the experience say in an A6 or E Class. Pathetic. But that's another story.

 

The relevant noise to this thread is engine and transmition. I'm very disappointed. I wonder if fixing any flywheel and clucth issues would really solve it. Make it fixed, yes, but as for noise - I don;t know. Fundamentally that VW 2 l deiesl is rough and loud, compared to Peogeot, Ford, Merc.

[chimaera]

Yes totally.

 

A DSG flywheel is totally different to a manual box.

 

You don't need to change the clutches at the same time as they do not touch the flywheel, on a DSG the clutch packs are inside the gearbox housing.

 

There seem to be several different options for flywheels for DSG on the Superb, but they are all £300 and under at http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/

No, you still need a clutch. The internal clutch packs are for switching between the two gearsets that the DSG uses. There's still a clutch between the DMF and transmission for engaging/disengaging drive. The difference is the DSG uses an actuator instead of the driver's leg to operate it.

[octyal]

No, you still need a clutch. The internal clutch packs are for switching between the two gearsets that the DSG uses. There's still a clutch between the DMF and transmission for engaging/disengaging drive. The difference is the DSG uses an actuator instead of the driver's leg to operate it.

 

Clutch on the 6 speed is internal to the gearbox, as it runs in oil (hence wet clutch), so doesn't have to be changed when the dmf is done, although while the box is off, it's cost effective to do the job as well.

Edited 21 September, 2016 by octyal

[lichfielddriver]

how many hours labour at how much/hour plus vat

Edited 21 September, 2016 by lichfielddriver

[silver1011]

Your flywheel is shot. Do not leave it any longer. If it fails completely you'll have a lot more than a few rattles to moan about.

 

You shouldn't be surprised that the garage told you to suck it and see, leaving it beyond the warranty is exactly what they wanted you to do. Success, for them at least.

 

I too have a CR140, on the same mileage as you, albeit a manual. Mine is lovely and quiet. I suspect the DMF is more worn that you want to hear.

 

I'd be on the phone in the morning.

[jafo]

[...]

Here's where it gets controversial. I mentioned flywheel to the dealer several times and cited the other casual opinions given. I expressly mentioned that I worried if there was a flywheel issue that it should be sorted out before the end of the 100K extended warranty. The last I got was, " watch it and see". What was that supposed to mean - or do ? Well 100K has passed and now what ? [...]

By any chance you have that in writing or any other proof?

[Meow]

No proof, just several times relayed what others had stated as their opinion that he flywheel might be going wrong. Both the rattles at idle ( which curiously have recently subsided ) and the whine at certain engine speeds in particular, have been described to me as indicative of flywheel issues.

 

Several times mentioned to dealer at times of service or repair. At one point I wrote a letter of concerns about various things including this, to the service manager. Everything on the list got fobbed off. I was and remain most concerned about the possibility of a flywheel issue - and now with the ratchety noises manifesting with the car in motion, especially noticeable when coasting to slower speed as the box changes down. That and the boomy, raspy sound when reapplying gas suddenly. It all sounds very wrong to me.

 

But no actual proof I had flagged it or any written reply from the dealer to that letter of concerns. I wanted any flywheel issue sorted out before the 100K and now having "watched it" go past the 100K and develop worse, I'm now faced with a huge bill. I feel the dealer should be sympathetic and bear some of the burden, because of the fact that I flagged it before. I cannot understand their indifference, because surely done as a warranty repair they would have been paid .......... or would they get a lot less for an extended warranty ( third party it actually is, that "Skoda" extended warranty ) than by direct charging the customer ? I don't know - someone tell me please. If so, it could explain why they fobbed me off.

Edited 21 September, 2016 by Meow

[Meow]

I'd like if I can to rehabilitate this car and get it really quietened down. Doing the flywheel to deal with the rasping and rattling. Doing the timing belt as I should anyway, coming up to 120K. Getting the whiny transmission looked at - could just be the flywheel thing. Doing the DSG oil service soon, as I have been at previous 40K intervals. And adding more/re-doing the extra sound proofing I had applied before. I'm already careful with tyre choice but I'm also thinking about having Spectrum 205/55/16 wheels fitted to replace my 225/45/17 Laurels and so have smaller wheel size and higher profile tyres. I'd like a nearly new Merc E Class or a new/nearly new Superb MkIII, but that's a lot of money compared to a relatively small outlay to rehabilitate my MkII Superb. It should have plenty of usage left in it, if I see to these fundamental maintenance issues and also do those additional things regarding noise.

[jafo]

[...]

Several times mentioned to dealer at times of service or repair. At one point I wrote a letter of concerns about various things including this, to the service manager. Everything on the list got fobbed off.[...]

I think you should contact Skoda UK and use this against the dealer.

If you remember the date of the letter - then they should have it on file and you can ask for a copy - they also should've replied to you in writing as well.

[Meow]

Another odd thing, to me, is that only the other week my car went through it's MOT successfully without mention of the rough, raspy noises on changes down and generally loud engine noise. Don't know if that would be an MOT issue but it wasn't mentioned at all in the health checklist thing either. I mentioned it when picking up the car and said I'd want to check it over with a Tech when I returned in a few weeks for the DSG oil change.

 

Are they just wanting me to buy a new car or something ?

[chimaera]

Another odd thing, to me, is that only the other week my car went through it's MOT successfully without mention of the rough, raspy noises on changes down and generally loud engine noise. Don't know if that would be an MOT issue but it wasn't mentioned at all in the health checklist thing either. I mentioned it when picking up the car and said I'd want to check it over with a Tech when I returned in a few weeks for the DSG oil change.

 

Are they just wanting me to buy a new car or something ?

 

Vehicle testers will test what's on the protocol and nothing more. If the MOT is anything like our NCT here in Ireland, the checklist is concerned with safety related items - brakes, steering, suspension, seatbelts, lights, etc. Rough running is a maintenance issue for the owner and outside of their remit.

[999smiler]

Mine was noisier when cold and it was during winter months I noticed my DMF was on its way out.

So had it replaced last month; just over £700 Lion Garage Leicester VAG specialist.

Mine is same engine as yours but DSG and had done 130,000 miles.

Looking at the old DMF it could have lasted many more miles, but I don't like the risks.

It has smoothed out the occasional jerkiness when putting in drive as well so needed doing.

[wiilydog]

Your flywheel is shot. Do not leave it any longer. If it fails completely you'll have a lot more than a few rattles to moan about.

You shouldn't be surprised that the garage told you to suck it and see, leaving it beyond the warranty is exactly what they wanted you to do. Success, for them at least.

I too have a CR140, on the same mileage as you, albeit a manual. Mine is lovely and quiet. I suspect the DMF is more worn that you want to hear.

I'd be on the phone in the morning.

Totally agree with above and don't delay as the dmf protects the gearbox from vibrations from the engine being transferred to it. A good Vag tech should be able to diagnose it easily as it took my Vag tech no more that 5 minutes to identify the noise as worn dmf.

Don't expect a MOT tester to pick this up as my last MOT made no comment odd rattle on idle either.