Difficulty in cornering at very low speed, wheels like sliding, not roling smoothly

[darengr]

Hi, 

I would be delighted to get some of your experience on a very strange problem I am facing. Car is 2003 Octavia Estate Elegance 4x4 1.8T petrol with 110k miles (or ~176k kilometers). I ll try to explain this as detailed as possible, however I am not a native english speaker, so some expressions may not be the most common ones , please bear with me, thank you!

 

Car is parked in basement area with a marble-like floor. To get to the road, I need to steer at max both right and left, avoiding columns and other parked cars.

In forward or reverse gear, while steering at max level, car hesitates and I can hear the front wheels making a noise like not rolling smoothly, but jumping or sliding on the floor. They also leave tyre marks more bold than usual on the floor.

 

I understand it like they are loosing their parallel movement and they either tend to come closer, or to deviate from each other as the car moves. Consequently the car behaves like breaking from the front wheels, I need to throtle more the get it moving. All this happens at speeds 1-3 mph, car moving very slowly, so it becomes noticeable, and very annoying.

 

Symptom is very noticeable when car is parked for a day or more, and seldomly noticeable after a short or long trip. It only happens with full steering, in forward or reverse. The more I move the steering wheelfrom a full steered wheel towards the straight track (0 degrees), the less it happens. 

 

Skoda told me that it is the back differential near the haldex that is stacked and this causes the problem, but I doubt it very much, because the back wheels do not make any noise at all, and since the car is heavier at the front, I believe the back wheels would be the first to slide on the floor (at least the one that is supposed to make the longer distance in the outer circle) if the back differential were stacked.

 

I also visited the best wheel aligner in the city and performed alignment on all 4 wheels. The symptom persists. 

 

Haldex and rear differential oils were changed (and they were changed according to schedule at past), the symptom persists.

 

Front differential oil (I think it is in the same container with the gear box oil, not sure though) has not been changed recently, so I thought I could try this next, just in case the front differential causes the problem. This may explains that the symptom rarely happens when the car has moved, so oil is warm.

 

Thank you very much for your patience and any advice suggested. 

Edited 22 September, 2016 by darengr

[@Lee]

long shot but try turning off the traction control and using second gear when in the car park and see if it helps.

[KenONeill]

Haldex is a "part-time" 4x4 system, so the rear wheels aren't driven until it detects the fronts starting to lose traction.

 

Also marble flooring is slippery (like ice, if you've ever experienced that, say up a mountain or on a skiing trip) which won't help any.

 

Now, is your traction control switch labelled "ASR" or "ESP"? If it's labelled ASR, it's a fairly basic TC and is probably best switched off when driving at low speed on very slippery surfaces.

[@Lee]

Haldex is a "part-time" 4x4 system, so the rear wheels aren't driven until it detects the fronts starting to lose traction.

 

Also marble flooring is slippery (like ice, if you've ever experienced that, say up a mountain or on a skiing trip) which won't help any.

 

Now, is your traction control switch labelled "ASR" or "ESP"? If it's labelled ASR, it's a fairly basic TC and is probably best switched off when driving at low speed on very slippery surfaces.

pretty much my thoughts, Ken.

[robek85]

Hey there. I drive same car as you and I have the exact same 'problem' as you described. I have to do full steering when leaving home and car wants to stop on pavement. If i undo sterring a little its ok.

If you discover anything let us know.

[CFBScout]

This certainly sounds like an issue with the 4x4 system, if the Haldex unit is locking up it will force the front and rear drive train to rotate at the same speed and will cause the issue you describe, the tyres 'scrubbing' and pushing the front wide.

 

Its the basic principle of 4WD and was quite a common problem on things like the Land Rover Freelander.

 

It needs attention for sure as it will further damage the drive train if left unattended.

[KenONeill]

This certainly sounds like an issue with the 4x4 system, if the Haldex unit is locking up it will force the front and rear drive train to rotate at the same speed and will cause the issue you describe, the tyres 'scrubbing' and pushing the front wide.

 

Its the basic principle of 4WD and was quite a common problem on things like the Land Rover Freelander.

 

It needs attention for sure as it will further damage the drive train if left unattended.

Does Haldex simulate a locked diff then? Your description is correct for a locked diff (or a Limited Slip Diff which has locked up) but shouldn't be right for an open diff.

[CFBScout]

Yes, when fully engaged the Haldex is effectively a centre diff lock sending drive to the rear end, although it will never be truly 'locked' as it uses a clutch arrangement so will allow some slippage.

 

To quote - "The first two generations from 1998 purely reacted to the slip on the front wheels. Without getting too technical, a Haldex system consists of a hydraulic pump, a clutch and an electronic valve. Early Haldex systems used the difference in speed between two shafts either side (i.e. when there was slip) to activate the pump and connect the rears, while the last three generations from 2004 don't need the slip to activate the pump and so can anticipate when power at the rear is needed."

 

Certainly sounds like a differential issue, could be front I guess but I would still suspect the rear.

[KenONeill]

Cheers; this could be "as designed" behaviour then, and the best option is to drive more gently in the garage (I find it hard to believe that the car won't manoeuvre at idle revs as long as the floor is level).

[darengr]

Thank you all for valuable feedback. Here are some answers to your comments:

 

Switch says "ESP" on the console button, I tried pushing it to turn off traction control, no change in behaviour. I do not think it is "by desing", as it happened this last year. It does indeed not manoeuvre well, and imagine being loaded with family members and vacation gear! Symptom is noticeable in other grounds as well, but in the mosaic-marble I have at parking area, it is very easy to see.

 

If I understand your thoughts well, the central haldex-controlled differential may be stuck (locked) ALL the time, so I have this difficulty in full steered turning. 

A question is, can this lock be "unlocked" by itself after a trip cause I do not notice the "scrubbing" in the same parking area under the same conditions at most of the cases? 

And the second question here is, is there a switch or device that understands the slip and then engages the Haldex properley, maybe this one is broken or faulty and sends an "engage" command to the Haldex all the time?

 

I need a way to test the problem, before I decide on replacing the haldex unit (a new one is the same with the present car value here in Greece!, a used one (to last how much?) is around 1000 euros...).

 

I thought of raising the car on 4 wooden blocks, get in and shift to 1st with the engine running to check on wheels behaviour.

What exactly should I notice on this experiment, if you find it a good idea? 

1. all wheels rotating?

2. front wheels only rotating?

3. say all wheels rotate, then If I turn the steering wheel all the way to one side and I do NOT notice any wheel braking or slowing down, then would it prove that the problem has to be with the central diff being locked (so problem occurs only when the car's axles and wheels has to travel the unequal distance on the ground due to different tracks, and the scrubbing occurs because of it)?

 

Could you suggest maybe another way to test for the cause of the problem?

 

best regards and thank you all.

[KenONeill]

I have had another thought; when was the oil in the Haldex last changed? It should be changed every 40_000 miles (64_000 km).