Engine fluttering and uneven power delivery

[Clarky]

Hi

I've got a 2010 VRS Combi that I've owned since new, 70k on the clock and a full skoda service history. It's a great car but it's now got an issue no one seems to be able to get to the bottom of.

It began last winter when a little miss on start up became evident but quickly cleared as it warmed up. I then occasionally started to get erratic acceleration on moderate throttle almost as if the engine was choking up. This is now happening more often than not and is accompanied by a fluttering noise that increases with the revs.

I called out the RAC after it happened on a recent trip and they couldn't find any fault codes and on the test run it naturally ran perfectly. The issue has continued over recent weeks and I took it into a local garage yesterday who again could not trace any fault codes or identify the issue.

Their suggestion is that it may be a spark plug or coil pack and suggested that I replace all four of each quoting £330. I'm loathe to spend this sort of money on the off chance it will sort the problem. The engine generally sounds more noisy now on tick over and I noticed it rattled on start up twice today raising fears that the tensioner could be on its way out.

Anyone else experienced this problem/ got some advice. I don't mind spending some money on it as I love the car, but I wish someone could tell me what the actual issue is.

[Snowman89]

I'm having a similar issue with my 1.8 TSI engine on my MK 2 Octavia..

Its most visible at idle where it seems to missfire, but this dissapears once it warms up.

Ive noticed that the car kind of "stumbles" every now and then when pushing it.

 

After some searching ive seen that it might be caused by carbon buildup..

However i have not had time to verify this yet, but i do plan to go into the intake with a small camera any day..

 

I have replaced the spark plugs on my car, so that should not be the case.

 

I will be following your thread in case you get any good advice, i will also post my findings once i have had a look inside the intake..

[Clarky]

Thanks. Looking back through the threads on here there appear to be a whole host of things that could cause these symptoms. :-(

The issue does however seem to be getting worse despite no warning lights to highlight a problem. I have also noticed that if left to stand for a while the car runs ok and the stuttering and fluttering only reoccurs after use. I think this is what happened when I took it to the garage yesterday having been stood most of the weekend. Today on my commute to work it was clearly apparent again.

[Snowman89]

Do you experience this when driving normally on the highway, ie going for a steady speed?

Do you notice anything when the car has heated up and is idling?

 

I can notice that my car kind of stumbles at idle every now and then when it is hot, it is not noticeable on the rev counter but i can definitly feel it in the car..

[planehazza]

Mine seems to do this too. 2.0 TSI

[Clarky]

Thanks for this. It tends to happen when driving normally and on moderate acceleration. The engine seems to splutter as if it's trying to come on cam and it only slowly picks up speed. You're never quite sure whether it's going to pick up speed or not and it's certainly not a smooth pick up. Once up to speed it seems to cruise at 70 no problem but struggles when it comes to accelerating again. As I said before this is accompanied by a fluttering noise that goes up and down with the revs and sounds almost like an exhaust blow.

[TheClient]

Faults of this nature are always difficult to identify, especially with no fault codes and inconsistent occurrence.  I don't know the answer, as you say there are lots of things that "could" cause similar problems.

 

I have a 2011 vRS with about 38k miles and I can tell you mine doesn't do it but again not a lot of help.

 

If spark plugs haven't been done in the last 2 years (or it is unknown) it could be worth a shout. If you do it yourself, it is a doddle and good NGK iridium plugs can be had for £30. Will take you 30 mins.

 

If you want to go further, coil packs should be able to be sourced for under £100 I would of thought. These will not take any extra time if doing plugs.

 

Like you say it is a bit speculative, but if there are no clear pointers it is a case of starting to eliminate causes and maintenance type items at reasonable costs are a good place to start.

 

Edit: there would probably be some data logging that might help, turbo boost pressure requested vs delivered, fuel pressure etc. if someone with VCDS can help nearby? Maybe some experienced forum participants can suggest what to look for?

Edited 5 October, 2016 by TheClient

[Clarky]

Yes, I've had it since new so I know how it should run and I'm just surprised that it's not throwing any fault codes given the engine is clearly struggling with an issue.

I was loathe to spend the £330 quoted to replace the plugs and coil packs by the local garage, but having checked Europarts (who seem to have sales discounts every other day) the oem ngk plugs were around £30 and four Bosch coil packs came in at just over £100. The plugs were previously changed by the dealer at the 60k service and the mechanic said on Monday that they looked new from a visual inspection but that didn't mean one may not be duff.

From what you're saying then a full diagnostic test is the logical next step. Does that mean they would be able to analyse much more information than simple fault codes and could potentially use that information to pinpoint where the issue lies?

Funny thing is that I considered changing the car recently but couldn't see the point of paying £25k for something new considering how capable the FL VRS in combi form is. It's quick, comfortable, practical and I often see 40mpg on a good run. On that basis I was prepared to spend some money on it to renew anything that was getting a bit tired and perhaps update the cam chain tensioner for peace of mind. The problem here is if i don't know what the issue is how can I address it without replacing a whole load of stuff that maybe working perfectly.

[TheClient]

I don't have VCDS (yet) and I'm a long way from an expert. My comments were a hopeful lead for with someone with a more experience of data logging and what might be worth looking at in your case.

 

VCDS appears to offer quite a bit of data logging, so if you focus on a couple of areas that it is suspected  it "could" be related like , boost pressure, fuel pressure etc whilst driving, and trying to re-create the fault, it may offer some direction for an area of focus.   

 

You may even find someone with VCDS near you in the forum listing who may be willing to assist.

[Clarky]

In with Vindis in Cambridge today to try to diagnose this problem. 

 

They just called to say they think it's a timing chain issue and will need 5 hours labour (£477!) plus parts just to strip down the engine and confirm...

 

The car's only six years old with a full skoda service history. Should it really be suffering a potentially terminal fault with a supposedly non-serviceable item? 

[planehazza]

In with Vindis in Cambridge today to try to diagnose this problem. 

 

They just called to say they think it's a timing chain issue and will need 5 hours labour (£477!) plus parts just to strip down the engine and confirm...

 

The car's only six years old with a full skoda service history. Should it really be suffering a potentially terminal fault with a supposedly non-serviceable item? 

Is it out of warranty?  If it is a timing issue, you want to fight for good will.  With FSSH you have a good stance, but I'll warn you that a failed timing chain is far from cheap. Depending on damage, many elect to fit an entire new engine.

 

Not trying to scare you.  Have you had VCDS on it yet?

[Clarky]

I've had the car since new and it's well outside the warranty now being 6 years old. It still runs so I'm assuming the chain has not yet failed and imploded the engine. Not sure if they've done a VCDS fault diagnosis.

[planehazza]

I've had the car since new and it's well outside the warranty now being 6 years old. It still runs so I'm assuming the chain has not yet failed and imploded the engine. Not sure if they've done a VCDS fault diagnosis.

 

If they're any sort of good garage it is the first thing they should have done

[Clarky]

Just picked up the car. They carried out fault finding and discovered a sporadic fault stored for the engine control module, knock sensor and emission control. This combined with noise from the timing chain led them to suspect a timing chain issue.

They think it could well be a tensioner issue and suspect that the chain may have stretched. I was advised that if this is the problem then the engine could potentially let go completely if left.

Apparently Skoda goodwill extends to just six years and my car is about 6.5 years old so I'm on my own. Although, I was advised to call Skoda Customer Services and see whether they would consider a contribution.

[planehazza]

Just picked up the car. They carried out fault finding and discovered a sporadic fault stored for the engine control module, knock sensor and emission control. This combined with noise from the timing chain led them to suspect a timing chain issue.

They think it could well be a tensioner issue and suspect that the chain may have stretched. I was advised that if this is the problem then the engine could potentially let go completely if left.

Apparently Skoda goodwill extends to just six years and my car is about 6.5 years old so I'm on my own. Although, I was advised to call Skoda Customer Services and see whether they would consider a contribution.

 

OK then. DO NOT use the car.  It only takes a couple of teeth difference on the chain for it to be catastrophic.

[TheClient]

Seems strange that it is an intermittent stutter if the timing is definitely out. Did they say they are sure? There are some measuring blocks in Vcds which give an indication. Timing chain tensioner issues can affect cars from 30k miles onwards, see sticky thread under mk2 at top of page for catalogue of failures.

If the car is running ok with only the intermittent fault, it doesn't sound like valve gear is damaged... yet.

If the concern is validated genuine, and tensioner noisy, I'd be getting the tensioner and chain done asap. You may want to consider not driving and getting it recovered. I did have the tensioner and chain replaced on mine when bought second hand as a preventative measure.

A good independent will be a lot cheaper labour rate than a skoda dealer. Definitely try skoda uk for Goodwill, there is no harm in asking. A good dealer should really have approached for you rather than telling you, to go it alone, especially with car in there and their diagnostics and first hand report. Sounds like a bit of a hand ball to tell you to try direct.

A completely failed tensioner will more than likely result in catastrophic damage. This often happens after a switch off at re-start.

Edited 11 October, 2016 by TheClient

[scw4955]

I have a 2.0 tdi estate 4x4 6 speed, 2008 with similar symptoms, car noisy on start up which goes as it gets warmer, and a judder /miss every now and then, and again no fault codes I was beginning to think I imagined what was happening, and now they have found that one cylinder is down because an inlet valve is not closing properly due to a warped cam,  awaiting the bill

 

[Clarky]

Now confirmed as slipped timing chain. The cam has apparently been damaged, which could be why we experienced similar symptoms.

[SzalonyPastor]

I have similar problem. During the car accelleration it is choking between 1300 to 1900 revs, usally the first time around 1500revs, then 1700revs when driving moderately on D (DSG).

When I drive on S (sport mode) the car is fine. Above the 2000revs car is going good and no chokes observed. Any guess?