Nox Emissions Software Update

[glenn_btn]

Just got my letter from Skoda this morning telling me the fix is now ready for the EA189 software update on my Yeti.

 

Who's going to bother getting the update?

 

They say it won't change anything but I am not convinced

 

Thanks

 

Glenn

[survey]

I'm not convinced either. Car runs fine at present. Just had a service and did not permit the 'fix'.

[Ryeman]

It seems the Germans claim that its removal will have no effect because it wasn't needed for EU certification, only the U.S.

from that I take it that it was convenient to have a single production line (relating to the ECU) for all markets AND on that basis there would be no compensation, just a 'technical' removal.

VW even suggests that outside of the U.S. nothing was illegal.........that's debatable I'd have thought.

[glenn_btn]

So if nothing has changed bar the removal of the cheat factor, there is no point in updating anyway?

 

Glenn

[KenONeill]

That seems reasonable; the only "needed changes" appear to be the removal of code relating to setting a special engine mode when undertaking an emissions test that's not even used in Europe!

[Ryeman]

Then there is the domestic political message to consider reassuring the general public that 'we are on top of the issue'.....(((

[33q]

I had mine serviced last week......not even mentioned

 

tomorrow it's back for aircon and brake fluid (aircon machine broke).....I'll ask Rainworths.

 

Personally I don't care

 

Having worked in IT (now retired) I know how many times I was challenged to tweak things to make things appear or disappear for all sorts of accounting, marketing, PR, legal loop holes etc. I beleive such practices are rife and no different to any other maximising of business opportunity.

 

I also know IT people love to be clever and beat the system.....I know I did

[VAGCF]

Read somewhere (may have been a thread in General) that a number of Tiguans that have had the update now run like a bag of spanners and VW don't have an answer!

If it was me I wouldn't have the update done and risk a good running car being ruined.

[The Plumber]

Our Toledo/Rapid apparently has one of the 'dodgy' 1.6TDI's, however if the intention of any suggested fix is to further gag the engine to force it to meet the perimeters it was supposed to meet, then I can only see this causing potential running and reliability issues.

 

So I will not be accepting any fix, as for me the engine was designed mechanically and electronically to run the way it is. 

 

 

TP

[Falmouthboy]

Our Toledo/Rapid apparently has one of the 'dodgy' 1.6TDI's, however if the intention of any suggested fix is to further gag the engine to force it to meet the perimeters it was supposed to meet, then I can only see this causing potential running and reliability issues.

 

So I will not be accepting any fix, as for me the engine was designed mechanically and electronically to run the way it is. 

 

 

TP

The 1.6 fix does involve some part changes as well as a CPU tweak. If I still had a TDI I certainly wouldn't be getting it done until plenty of positive reports go online from early adopters and the motoring press have done some before and after testing.

[muddyboots]

Read somewhere (may have been a thread in General) that a number of Tiguans that have had the update now run like a bag of spanners and VW don't have an answer!

If it was me I wouldn't have the update done and risk a good running car being ruined.

See here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/8-reports-of-volkswagen-tiguans-losing-power-after-ea189-emissions-fix/

(and read the comments too...)

Edited 14 October, 2016 by muddyboots

[VAGCF]

That's the one. Thanks MB.

[The Plumber]

Strangely I received my first communication from Seat regard this issue today; basically they are letting me know that a fix for my car is not yet in place but the intention is to do so by the end of the year and have the car recalled sometime next year. 

 

They have given an e-mail if I have any concerns, so I will probably use it to let them know that my only concern is the carrying out this recall in the first place 

 

Will also request that they remove my car from the campaign list and see what response I get if any.

 

 

 

TP

[Macdemon]

Just got my letter from Skoda this morning telling me the fix is now ready for the EA189 software update on my Yeti.

 

Who's going to bother getting the update?

 

They say it won't change anything but I am not convinced

 

Thanks

 

Glenn

 

I'm going to have my car 'fixed' as it will be at Skoda's expense.

 

I have NO idea what damage its done to the DPF or the trade in value or resale value???

[ejstubbs]

Why would it have damaged the DPF?  NOx (nitrogen oxides) are gases, not particulates.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by ejstubbs

[Ryeman]

The imperative is to protect the EGR valve and its cooler from a shortened lifespan as a result of the 'fix'.

[muddyboots]

Why would it have damaged the DPF?  NOx (nitrogen oxides) are gases, not particulates.

My understanding (could be wrong!) is that increasing levels of EGR can cause more soot production - so if the fix involves increased EGR (to reduce NOx) then potentially you'll get more frequent active DPF regeneration, which in turn could lead to ash building up more quickly and DPFs requiring replacement earlier.

Not "damage" to the DPF as such, just a possible shorter lifespan - though no doubt still well outside of warranty periods....

[Ryeman]

AFAIK

The SCR permits sustainable high combustion temps thus reducing soot content, giving a cleaner burn, higher power (eg Mercedes Bluetec 2.0L gives 150kw ~ 200bhp) and better economy.

The high temps produce NOx BUT the SCR (adblue injection) eliminates 90% thus no need for recirculated exhaust gas via the EGR valve and cooler.

But for low mileage (and thus adblue use), it seems there is a risk of crystalline fouling due to the age of the fluid in the tank.

Pluses - cleaner DPF , more power, better economy, no EGR issues and less need/frequency for regens

Negative - SCR injector failure due to low annual mileage .

Edited 17 October, 2016 by Ryeman

[Clive]

I received a letter from Skoda regarding the EA 189 Service Action this morning , as I bought the car second hand I hadn't actually given this any thought , and I wasn't expecting to hear anything . 

 

Anyway it seems the fix for my Yeti isn't available yet , and I'll be contacted again when "the specific technical measure for my vehicle is released". I guess it's good that my car is in the system now .

 

Edited 17 October, 2016 by Clive

[33q]

I received a letter from Skoda regarding the EA 189 Service Action this morning , as I bought the car second hand I hadn't actually given this any thought , and I wasn't expecting to hear anything . 

 

Anyway it seems the fix for my Yeti isn't available yet , and I'll be contacted again when "the specific technical measure for my vehicle is released". I guess it's good that my car is in the system now .

 

SKODA letter.PNG

 

Got mine too today

 

Mines a 140 TDI DSG....wonder if the DSG version is a later version to be released...hope its better than the Tiguan one

 

In any case I have no current plans for my vehicle to be updated!

[Clive]

In any case I have no current plans for my vehicle to be updated!

 

I'll wait to see what my next letter says before I decide whether or not to have it done , but I probably won't .

[ejstubbs]

My understanding (could be wrong!) is that increasing levels of EGR can cause more soot production - so if the fix involves increased EGR (to reduce NOx) then potentially you'll get more frequent active DPF regeneration, which in turn could lead to ash building up more quickly and DPFs requiring replacement earlier.

Not "damage" to the DPF as such, just a possible shorter lifespan - though no doubt still well outside of warranty periods....

 

My reading of your previous post was that you thought the NOx issue might already have damaged your DPF.  Your explanation above - that the fix might have that result - makes more sense, though I've no idea whether or not your technical exposition is correct.

 

(My understanding is that regeneration involves burning off the soot ie carbon particles, which will simply product CO2 with no/minimal ash.  But I might be wrong.)

 

AFAIK

The SCR permits sustainable high combustion temps thus reducing soot content, giving a cleaner burn, higher power (eg Mercedes Bluetec 2.0L gives 150kw ~ 200bhp) and better economy.

The high temps produce NOx BUT the SCR (adblue injection) eliminates 90% thus no need for recirculated exhaust gas via the EGR valve and cooler.

But for low mileage (and thus adblue use), it seems there is a risk of crystalline fouling due to the age of the fluid in the tank.

Pluses - cleaner DPF , more power, better economy, no EGR issues and less need/frequency for regens

Negative - SCR injector failure due to low annual mileage .

 

The fix for the NOx issue on EURO5 engines doesn't involve retrofitting an SCR, adblue etc.  Or have I misunderstood your post?  (I thought you were replying to muddyboots but I may have got confused.)

 

However, your explanation of the pros and cons of adblue is useful, so thanks for that.

[skoda1982]

I received a letter from Skoda regarding the EA 189 Service Action this morning , as I bought the car second hand I hadn't actually given this any thought , and I wasn't expecting to hear anything . 

 

Anyway it seems the fix for my Yeti isn't available yet , and I'll be contacted again when "the specific technical measure for my vehicle is released". I guess it's good that my car is in the system now .

 

SKODA letter.PNG

 

 

Got mine as well

[PaveyArk]

Got my fourth letter today (the first was October last year..) to say they are still working on an update for my specific vehicle - 170 manual L&K

Odd how some are ready and others not...

Edited 17 October, 2016 by PaveyArk

[VAGCF]

Seems to me that given reported problems with e.g. the Tiguan that VWG are delaying implementing the fix for other models?

They were already late with beginning the first "fixes" and little progress seems to have been made - no one on here has reported having the fix done yet.

VWG seem to be dragging this out and the emails are just to placate owners that they are doing something.

Perhaps even now they haven't got the promised fix i.e. one that doesn't affect power, running characteristics and economy and are hoping if they drag it out long enough that the problem will go away, well outside of the US anyway.