Smokey vrs !

[Leeroyale4777]

Hi there , I have a 2003 vrs petrol . I've noticed that it's started to puff a bit of blue smoke out the back and is burning oil . I've checked fmic it's dry . Could it be valve stem seals ? It doesn't smoke driving normally or on boost . It only smokes in traffic and after coasting off throttle then throttling on again . Doesn't sound like turbo or rings to me . Any help would be great thanks .

[Leeroyale4777]

Right ive checked compression and there all between 165 and 175 , is that good ? number 4 plug is a bit oily , does that point towards stem seals ? Anybody had this before ?

[Liverpool-Lad]

Did you try a cold test, wet or dry? That compression ratio looks fine, has it done a lot of miles & what oil are you using?

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Liverpool-Lad

[Leeroyale4777]

Cold dry test , 135000 , 5w30 .

[Leeboy]

Turbo oil seals? Makes a sense to be smokey on idle and off throttle because oil pressure will naturally drop when the engine is warm. Presumably at higher pressure the oil is forcing seals to be more effective and so doesn't smoke.

[Leeroyale4777]

What about the oily plug on number 4 ? Must be oil getting into the chamber right ? I did think turbo seals until I saw the oily plug .

[KenONeill]

That does sound like seals, or possibly a buildup of oil in the intercooler. Which is a good excuse for doing that catch can mod...

[Leeroyale4777]

The intercooler is only a month old fmic , just puzzles me as why only number four is oily , the rest are perfect , good compression , boosts lovely 18 psi holds at 15 psi no smoke . no loss of power . just when its warmed up on tickover and when coasting down hills and when you throttle on puff of smoke then it clears . I'm going to do the valve seals , got a high flow manifold so will fit at the same time . best place for seals ? What is oe spec make ? Cheers .

[KenONeill]

The intercooler is only a month old fmic , just puzzles me as why only number four is oily , the rest are perfect , good compression , boosts lovely 18 psi holds at 15 psi no smoke . no loss of power . just when its warmed up on tickover and when coasting down hills and when you throttle on puff of smoke then it clears . I'm going to do the valve seals , got a high flow manifold so will fit at the same time . best place for seals ? What is oe spec make ? Cheers .

If just #4 is oily, you might be able to just replace the #4 seals (depends on details of head and valve retainer design).

[Reyland]

Hi there , I have a 2003 vrs petrol . I've noticed that it's started to puff a bit of blue smoke out the back and is burning oil . I've checked fmic it's dry . Could it be valve stem seals ? It doesn't smoke driving normally or on boost . It only smokes in traffic and after coasting off throttle then throttling on again . Doesn't sound like turbo or rings to me . Any help would be great thanks .

 

I have been having the same issue which my mechanic told me was the turbo seals. £900 later and new turbo fitted, same issue! He now thinks it could be the valve seals and wants to charge me another £570! Please can you keep me posted if you manage to fix the issue by replacing the valve seals?

[KenONeill]

I have been having the same issue which my mechanic told me was the turbo seals. £900 later and new turbo fitted, same issue! He now thinks it could be the valve seals and wants to charge me another £570! Please can you keep me posted if you manage to fix the issue by replacing the valve seals?

Tell him sure, but you want the price of the seal job chipping by the cost of the unnecessary turbo replacement and that you'll take a cheque!

[Leeroyale4777]

Reyland that's the nightmare situation I'm trying to avoid , have you done compression test and checked your plugs ? I'm doing the job myself with my dad's help as he's an engineer , so labour costs don't come into it . I'll let you know how it goes .

[octyal]

Is it more pronounced if you leave it idling for say ten minutes, then blip the throttle? If so, then that could indicate turbo seals on the way out.

How long has it been doing it too? You say you have recently fitted a new FMIC, did it do it before fitting that? If not, then it will be related to that.

Number 4 plug being oily could indicate that the problem is on that cylinder, try moving that plug to number 3 and run the car for a few days, then re check - if it's still oily on number 4, then it is that cylinder at fault. Which cylinder has got the lowest reading on compression too?

Valve stem seals normally show up as a puff of smoke when changing gear at high revs (had an Audi 80 Sport with the old DZ 1.8i engine that had that problem), whereas bore/ring wear will show up as blue smoke on the over run (trailing throttle).

It could be a breather problem, so worth checking all of the breather system, and also all of the turbo pipework, just in case there is a pool of oil at the lowest point in the system being drawn in.

Plenty of things to check, start with the simplest and work your way up, crossing things off as you go.

[Reyland]

Reyland that's the nightmare situation I'm trying to avoid , have you done compression test and checked your plugs ? I'm doing the job myself with my dad's help as he's an engineer , so labour costs don't come into it . I'll let you know how it goes .

 

According to my mechanic a compression test was done and all looked ok. I have seen a few vids on youtube on how to replace the seals without taking the head off but I would worry about anything going wrong if I did it myself.

[kentphil1]

Leeroyale4777, what does the turbo vane look like with the pipes removed from the turbo, is there a lot of oil residue in there or is it clear?, oil will probably burn off on the hot side of the turbo, but you should be able to assess turbo vane bearing wear and have a clue to if oil smoke is turbo related or internal to the power unit itself.

 

As has also been mentioned, check the pcv valves in the breather and up by the turbo intake pipe, as if you are not the original owner and servicing oil quality has been patchy, they will "gum up " very quickly which will cause the crankcase to pressurize and push oil past a weak oil seal.

 

Is number 4 plug oily on the tip only or over the rest of the metal threaded housing which would be above the head plug thread area?, as plug seals on the cambox can give trouble, and pass oil, especially if the breather is blocked, reducing the ability to control internal engine fume pressure.

 

The fact that it is only on one cylinder, does seem to start to point toward a power unit rather than turbo issue, but the other items cost little to do and have a big overall impact on settling on a plan of action.

 

Just one thing to bear in mind with the compression test, that only indicates the general condition of your bores and compression rings, it is not an indication of your oil control rings condition. Only a cylinder leakage test will confirm where that issue may ultimately be if it is internal.

Edited 17 October, 2016 by kentphil1

[sharkrider]

The intercooler is only a month old fmic , just puzzles me as why only number four is oily , the rest are perfect , good compression , boosts lovely 18 psi holds at 15 psi no smoke . no loss of power . just when its warmed up on tickover and when coasting down hills and when you throttle on puff of smoke then it clears . I'm going to do the valve seals , got a high flow manifold so will fit at the same time . best place for seals ? What is oe spec make ? Cheers .

mine does the same, doesn't use much oil though, (it went down from top to 2/3 of hatch after a 1300 mile round trip to the nurburgring!) , my tame mech thinks it may be the valve stem seals, he says don't worry about it unless it uses loads of oil.... I think it may be a blocked breather, next spring I'm going to attempt the catch can, see if it cures it. it just passed its MOT, so not stressing about it, runs very well

 

I have been having the same issue which my mechanic told me was the turbo seals. £900 later and new turbo fitted, same issue! He now thinks it could be the valve seals and wants to charge me another £570! Please can you keep me posted if you manage to fix the issue by replacing the valve seals?

 

damn :(

Edited 17 October, 2016 by sharkrider

[Leeroyale4777]

Hi guys thanks for the input , breather hoses have mostly been replaced , should I change the check valves first then see if that helps ? The hockey puck valve on tip , and the one on the T piece under the inlet manifold ?

[sharkrider]

Hi guys thanks for the input , breather hoses have mostly been replaced , should I change the check valves first then see if that helps ? The hockey puck valve on tip , and the one on the T piece under the inlet manifold ?

keep posting your progress, as your symptoms are almost exactly the same as mine, so if you cure it, I will follow that route at some point (before I stick a big turbo on ect!lol)

[kentphil1]

Hi guys thanks for the input , breather hoses have mostly been replaced , should I change the check valves first then see if that helps ? The hockey puck valve on tip , and the one on the T piece under the inlet manifold ?

The pcv valve in the breather pipe by the oil filter is quite cheap,and I would change that just to rule it out, as they really can "cake up" with crud and it made quite a difference to the general idle on my vrs when it hit 120k miles.

 

The hockey puck you should be able to test if you have access to a hand held vacuum pump to watch it work on the bench.

 

There used to be a youtube vid of the test procedure about on the net, I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

[Leeroyale4777]

It's just annoying , I was planning on going for stage 2 after crimbo . It runs fantastic and pulls well boosts lovely . Cant even think about that now until I've cured the oil issue .I'll do the pcv and hockey puck see what happens . I'll let you know how I get on , thanks for your help .

[Saints92]

At my work we had a similar problem, and it turned out the be the turbo oil return pipe, that runs from the bottom of the turbo to the block, that had been choking up, causing oil to collect in the turbo and be burned until the oil pressure forced enough through the pipe.

 

Its worth taking that pipe off and giving it a wee blast just incase, as its not uncommon.

[kentphil1]

Just checked youtube, only vids still there are by hobby d.i.y sorts and are only really useful for location (which you already know) rather than useful content to learn from.

 

I believe the latest revision puck valve is a D, but I have heard mention of an E version, so wise to check first.

 

When the puck goes, you would normally get a couple of boost related engine codes, have you got any that you know of?.

[Leeroyale4777]

No codes apart from sai , but that's because I've deleted it , planning on getting it mapped out at stage 2 . I've just had all the breather hoses out and cleaned the valves , they weren't too bad to be fair . This turbo hose is it ok to just remove it and clean then put back on or will it have to be primed again ? Cheers

[Leeroyale4777]

Also found a crack in exhaust manifold , would that cause it ? Got a new high flow one to put on the wkend anyway .

[kentphil1]

Unlikely to be exhaust manifold, was the valve stuck open, or does it spring back freely if you press it open with a pencil or such like?.

 

To be fair, i would get a local garage to do a cylinder leakage check if they have the kit, that will tell you straight away where your pressure is escaping to and hence where it may be passing your oil into the bores. It can get quite expensive guessing at items with something like this.

 

When you have the manifold off, have a look inside the head port with a powerful torch and a mirror to see if the valve stems are oily on the sick cylinder.