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2010 TSI - Running like a bag of s*** (when cold)!


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As above my car is running terribly when it is cold, stuttering, missing and just generally lumpy. Reminds me of my first car (a Rover Metro) which had a manual choke and would run horribly until it had warmed up and the choke had been pushed back in.

 

Its only at lower revs, around 1,500 to around 2,500 rpm and only on light throttle. For example in 4th gear at 30 if I just hold light pressure on the throttle you can feel it kangaroo'ing!

 

I have a good relationship with a VAG specialist that look after it. They have had it on a couple of occasions this year, the problem is are no error codes or EML etc so it is difficult to diagnose. They had it in May for a service, recommended changing the spark plugs as part of the service, no joy. They had it again for another service last month (I do a lot of motor way miles) and they did some more detailed testing but again nothing showed up.

 

Car was also remapped by them, I had this took off last week and the car defaulted to standard as a test, it stills runs rough.

 

They have suggested trying a few things. First one being to disconnect the MAF when the engine is cold and see if it runs ok then, if it does then its the MAF, if not then I will need to take in anyway to have the EML removed at which point they recommend replacing the coolant temperature sensor as that could be a likely culprit given that it happens when cold.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Car is a 2.0 TSi with 75k on the clock. It had a new inlet manifold fitted by Skoda 18 months ago, I've had all the tensioners updated (for peace of mind) and it had a new clutch/DMF earlier this year due to a noisy release bearing (if any of that helps!). Oh and I always run it on decent fuel, either Sainsburys/Tesco's super unleaded or BP/Shell, never normal supermarket fuel

 

 

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I'd also be getting a camera into the inlets and have a look at how much carbon is on the valves.  Your mileage is about right for inlet clogging.

 

What happens is the cold engine & the carbon holds the valves open a fraction. (thats my theory).

 

It's not a huge job to come in through the intake air temp sensor and have a look at cyl 2 & 3.

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Probably coil packs as they usually fail in the UK at this time of year when the cold and damp of the winter first hits us

However noticing that tsi has been remapped - worth checking/replacing the plugs [EDIT - just seen that has been done]

 

 

 

Not as convinced re carbon - I would of thought loss of compression due to carboned up valves would be better when cold (enriched mixture) than hot so less likely to be this - although it's always worth a peek anyway

Edited by bigjohn
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Coil packs is a 2 minute job. Take the plastic cover off, disconnect the wiring harness from each one then they just pull out. They might be tight if they haven't been removed in a while so some use large zip ties to get a grip around them. From memory, they're about £30 each.

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Have they done a live data stream on it whilst driving, thus when the symptoms are present? That may help with identifying the problem, rather than throwing money at it. Maybe there is an ECU temp sensor that is working, but giving a false reading, hence it's not showing up a fault code?

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They've had it in twice for other things and plugged it in whilst its there but I don't know about actually taking a live stream during a test drive. He did mention the coolant temp sensor saying it could be giving a false reading hence why it happens when cold.

 

Problem is by the time I get it to the garage its warmed up. They did take it out last time but said it drove fine to them, I find that extremely hard to believe and suspect they didn't actually test it.

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They've had it in twice for other things and plugged it in whilst its there but I don't know about actually taking a live stream during a test drive. He did mention the coolant temp sensor saying it could be giving a false reading hence why it happens when cold.

 

Problem is by the time I get it to the garage its warmed up. They did take it out last time but said it drove fine to them, I find that extremely hard to believe and suspect they didn't actually test it.

They tested it just after they got it, so it was hot?

 

What you need to do is leave it with them overnight, if the problem only shows up first thing. They should be happy to let you do this; if not, there are other garages.

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There are 4 coil packs. More preventive maintenance that anything else, but I have changed all mine in the last few months. Bought Bosch ones from euro car parts when they had a discount on. Got all 4 for just less than £100 at the time, but at the moment they are £35.49 each at Euro.

planehazza is right, they are dead easy to replace. You might want to look up how to unclip the wiring harness first though. Maybe another member has a photo of the harness showing the clip you push on. It will be easy when you see how, it's just a job to describe without a photo.

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Dear All
 
I have a very similar issue to you Mat-Manchester, and also Neild5:
 
I am seriously considering a Walnut Blast carbon clean of the inlet valves....:

FYI: symptoms: vibration at 750 - 800 revs, only when warm. when cold revs at 1200 and therefore no vibration

 

when driving , when in neutral at 60 mph+ , no issue with vibration when idling (guessing due to air being pushed through air inlet valve at speed)

But below, vibration at idling, so guess it is air inlet valve related and guessing it is a misfire due to not enough air (i.e. blocked inlet valve)

 

No issues with pulling away in high gear at low speed and no difference when clutch is engaged or not. Also no issue with clutch biting

 
I have already replaced the: MAF, PCV & PCV hoses, I have had the Coil Packs and Throttle Body replaced by a garage (who said we know exactly what the problem is - and a lot of £ later it has not sorted it. I have also had a teraclean done (just in case it was dirty injectors), I am losing the will with this car, as this can only be the last option to try?
 
When brad1.8T said this:

I'd also be getting a camera into the inlets and have a look at how much carbon is on the valves.  Your mileage is about right for inlet clogging.

 

What happens is the cold engine & the carbon holds the valves open a fraction. (thats my theory).

 

It's not a huge job to come in through the intake air temp sensor and have a look at cyl 2 & 3.

 

How easy is this do to with a borescope?

 

All the best!

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Doesn't sound like you've had much luck, I'd set fire to mine if it was that troublesome :)

Although mine does seem to be displaying some different symptoms to yours, missing when cold etc.

Mine had a new inlet manifold fitted by Skoda 2 years ago, it's done around 40k since then so could of gone again but last time it threw an EML.

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How easy is this do to with a borescope?

Buy a cheap endoscope off ebay or aliexpress. IIRC you need 7mm or smaller. You can measure the air temp sensor hole to confirm. They cost around GBP15 for a basic unit with LEDS.

The air temp sensor at the front of the inlet manifold is held in by 1 screw.

inlet 2 & 3 are almost a straight run from the air temp sensor. You need an expensive "steerable" endoscope / borescope (I call them borescopes because that's what we called them at work) if you want to go around corners.

 

results will look like this (not great but cheaper than pulling off the manifold):

 

https://youtu.be/kDnlwptPsV8

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Hi Mat, No have not had much luck with this car since i've had it over the last 18 months, fell in love with it and too stubborn to let it go, it's had too much ££ spent on it now to just get rid... I will get to the bottom of the issue...! And there have been a very occasional flashing EML's coming on, but the VCDS scan has come back with: 000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected - 000772 - Cylinder 4 P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - 000769 - Cylinder 1 P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected. hence why i started off with the easy changing of bits, ie MAF and PCV, Coil Packs. The last independant garage said it may be the injectors clogged and dirty (hence the teraclean) or it may possibly be the inlet valves carboned/coked up, which the whole inlet manifold would need to come off to be cleaned (either manually or walnut blast) - or as brad1.8T said get an endoscope and have a look first.

I'd set fire to mine if it was that troublesome :)

inlet 2 & 3 are almost a straight run from the air temp sensor. You need an expensive "steerable" endoscope / borescope (I call them borescopes because that's what we called them at work) if you want to go around corners.

 

I have seen and read on the Mini Forums that the BMW Mini garages have the Walnut Shell blasting at a lot of their garages - is this something they could do. i.e. would they feel comfortable with taking the inlet manifold off and then cleaning it with their walnut blast? and then at what cost - only contacting them and asking the question will prevail any answers!

 

 

Its a full days work for the TFSI. We've done a good number of these. 

 

AP... How much do you charge for this service - 2.0T TSI?

 

 

Thanks all!

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