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Felicia lights/ blown fuse issue


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Firstly i would like to say sorry if this has already been asked. Searching lights brought too many threads. I suppose its always good to have a refresh of answers as well. 

 

Car details 1999 Skoda Felicia 1.3 MPI estate.

 

The driver side front right hand corner light and rear same side light keeps blowing a fuse, but this is not always instantly it can last a week or a few days. The fuses in question is a 7.5 amp. I have supplied pictures of the fuse board and relay board. Looking at the Haynes manual and comparing to the pictures taken it seems some relays are missing is this normal or is this depending on model. Please see pictures attached. I am not the most electrical minded, and before i started poking around i thought it would be best to speak to people on hear who often know more than mechanic's. The sunroof was leaking a while ago but nothing major and has now been sealed up and the fuses seem dry and do the harnesses. 

 

as for the relays, going by what the Haynes manual states it looks like the following is missing:

 

R6 : warning buzzer fro sidelights

R2 : front fog lights

INT : rear wash/wipe 

 

as for R2 i can understand as the car doesnt have front fogs. but the rest puzzles me as the light warning buzzer works, and the rear wash/wipe works. Anyone shed any light?

 

any information would be great.

 

Blown fuse has been removed from the fuse board.

 

 

 

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Edited by dtaddei2
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Searching lights brought too many threads.

Well, yeah, but you can use the Advanced Search feature (see the little gear icon to the right of the search/loupe button?) that allows a much refined search. Using more specific words to search the forum helps too.

 

Now about your questions.

Relay R6 is missing because on Felicia Mk2 the buzzer is located on the back of the instrument cluster.

Relay INT is not exactly a simple rear wash/wipe relay. The name is deceiving. It is an intelligent rear wash/wipe relay, meaning it adds a new feature called Automatic wipe wash with intermittent wipe (see page 55 of FELICIA Owner's Manual). In its absence, the rear wiper/washer is running only as long as the right stalk is pushed. If you ask me, I could live very well without it, although I have it.

 

As for fuse 11 that keeps blowing, I would check for the following issues:

  • water in the relay box from a windscreen leak
  • wiring with bad insulation that shorts to ground on right side and tail light
  • corrosion in the rear bulbs carrier

 

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  • Like 1
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One more thing. How did the blown fuse issue start to manifest? All of a sudden? After a repair? After another event?                   

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Hi the issue just happened all of a sudden. Today i checked both front and rear lights and both seem dry and corrosion free and wiring at both ends seem fine. I checked all the relays and pulled them all out and they also seem dry and corrosion free as does the board ( i removed the board from the tray and it was dry.

 

Any other things i can check? (without having to pull dashboard apart)

 

 

also thanks for explaining the relays, my rear wiper does indeed only operate if you hold the stalk like you mentioned. The front wiring looms for the front lights have a spare plug at each side which i presume are for models with front fog lights?

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Fuse 11 circuit has only 3 electrical consumers: RH front side light bulb, RH tail side light bulb, and the buzzer. If you guarantee the wiring doesn't short to ground, it is either one bulb shorted or the buzzer circuit is shorted. To find the culprit, do this:

  1. remove RH front and RH tail side light bulbs. Note: there are 2 side light bulbs at the rear, one is a small single filament 5W bulb and the other is the "brake' bulb that actually has 2 filaments, a thicker one for brake and a thinner one for another side light. So you have to remove both the RH rear single filament side light bulb and the RH rear combined (double filament) brake and side light bulb.
  2. inspect/measure all 3 bulbs for integrity. If bad, replace.
  3. inspect the sockets of the bulbs for corrosion that might act as a bridge to ground.
  4. plug in a good 10A fuse for fuse 11. Turn on the side light switch.
  5. if the buzzer sounds with a front door open, you're good, go to next step. Otherwise the fuse has blown and the short is in the buzzer.
  6. plug in the front side light bulb.
  7. if the bulb lights, you're good, go to next step. Otherwise the fuse has blown and the short is in the bulb.
  8. plug in the single filament rear side light bulb.
  9. if the bulb lights, you're good, go to next step. Otherwise the fuse has blown and the short is in the bulb.
  10. plug in the rear brake/side light bulb.
  11. if the smaller filament of the bulb lights, you're good. Otherwise the fuse has blown and the short is in the bulb.
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ok i have tried all this and still nothing has blown but on inspection of the rear double filament bulb i could see a small about of corrosion inside the bulb and i gave the bulb a little shake and a small piece of rust was loose so its likely under driving conditions this small piece of rust bouncing around could cause it to short but not blow the bulb. Is this the likely culprit? I will replace the bulb and put a 7.5 amp fuse back in and monitor, and hopefully this will be the end of it. 

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I will  let you know if all goes well in a weeks time. But i wanted to say thanks again Ricardo you are a great asset to this forum and a man full of knowledge, and thanks again for your help and easy step by step instructions, as well as quick replies. You helped me with my last issue and now with this, and i would also like to say thanks to the forum as this has been one of the better forums i have been on out of all the various car forums i have been on and the various cars i have owned which is many. I also want to say that the Felicia has been a great car and in my top 8 cars i've owned. its up there with the Trabant, Triumph acclaim, Mercedes W123 (x2), Mercedes W211, Volvo 240, Honda Civic. and even although all those cars are completely different they have all put a smile on my face. 

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...but on inspection of the rear double filament bulb i could see a small about of corrosion inside the bulb and i gave the bulb a little shake and a small piece of rust was loose so its likely under driving conditions this small piece of rust bouncing around could cause it to short but not blow the bulb. Is this the likely culprit?

Yes, it might be. All bulbs are subject to intense vibrations and once in a while they fail in weird ways, like in your case. Changing the bulb and putting a new 7.5 A fuse is indeed the best solution.

 

PS

Thank you for your kind words. I try to do my best to keep Classic Skodas roadworthy. The more difficult the problems, the more interested in solving them I am. Cheers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well just as I thought the issue was fixed, the fuse has blown again I still have full beam etc just not dipped or rear light as the fuse has blown. Any ideas? I am really scratching my head now, would it be worth check the earthing points on the vehicle? but I would have thought if there were issues with the earthing points on the vehicle then other electrics would be affected. Any information please let me know.

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No dipped beam? On both sides? That is something new, on another circuit and definitely on another fuse. Please confirm and check what other fuse is blown.

 

Also let me know if the fuse has blown immediately after you switched any lever or button.

Edited by RicardoM
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OK. Based on the fact that both front right side light and right dipped beam are not working, I assume some funny thing happens around the right headlight connector or inside that headlight. Being an intermittent short circuit makes things slightly more difficult but we're getting there.

 

So grab a flashlight and here's what I'd want you to do step by step to gather evidence:

  • Disconnect negative battery cable.
  • Have a visual inspection again on the outside of right HL connector. Look for corrosion, signs of burns, melting, cracked insulation of wiring, loose strands of wire. Tug on each of the four wires attached to connector.
  • Unplug right HL connector. Look inside both male/female sides for corrosion, signs of burns, melting.
  • Twist and remove the round cap on the back of the right HL as if you're going to replace the bulbs for the HL or side light inside.
  • Using the flashlight look inside the HL and see if the spring clamp that holds the HL bulb socket caught any wire inside and started to chew on them.
  • Unplug connector of twin-filament bulb. Inspect it for corrosion, signs of burns, melting, cracked/rubbed insulation of wiring, loose strands of wire.
  • Press spring clamp over catches and fold open.
  • Pull twin-filament bulb out of reflector. Do not touch the glass of the bulb. Inspect it for any debris inside, look for integrity of the filaments or measure them with an ohmmeter.
  • Pull side light bulb together with socket out of reflector. Pull bulb out of connector. Inspect the bulb for any debris inside, look for integrity of the filament or measure it with an ohmmeter. Look inside connector for corrosion, signs of burns, melting.
  • Put everything back in reverse order. Avoid catching the wiring inside HL with the spring clamp or rubbing on sharp edges.
  • Replace blown fuse.
  • Reconnect negative battery cable.

Note: If on any step of inspection you'll find a problem, act accordingly.

 

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If previous test didn't offer any clue, you're left with the so called "wiggle test". You replace the blown fuse then turn on side lights and headlights.

 

If the fuse will blow instantly there is a continuous (steady?) short circuit and you'll be able to find it with a multimeter.

 

If the fuse doesn't blow, wiggle the associated wiring starting from the right HL, going to relay box and back to the rear lamp. The idea this time is to make the fuse blow then concentrate on last wiggled wires.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok firstly want to say for the long wait, the weather hasn't been great so have been unable to have a look at the car, but finally checked everything you asked and did the wiggle test nothing made it blow. However after doing all of this and also finding another bulb which the glass spun in its metal base the indicators would not work, they had just blown a fuse :thumbdown:  so after getting the new bulb and replaced both fuses now indicators worked fine now as does the lights, but i decided to take the dash out and have a look for any suspect wires or water, after following a clip on youtube that i found on this forum i managed to remove the dash without taking the steering wheel off  :happy:  and i could find nothing all the wires seemed fine no sign of water only thing was dust. So still nothing so i am guessing that in a couple of days the fuse will blow again  :( but hopefully the indicators wont blow, i am hoping that was just a result of me poking around while doing wiggle test. I am really am banging my head against a brick wall  :wall: only other thing i can can possibly think of is that the wiring going the length of the car has crack in it but this is a nightmare of a job, maybe i should seek a mechanic or auto electrician. Or maybe just maybe the slack bulb was the culprit lets hope so, because 7.5amp fuses are a pain to get hold of you can't just simply buy a bag of 7.5amp fuses you need to buy a bag of fuses that have all sorts of fuses and they tend to only have a few 7.5amp fuses and loads of everything else. Has anyone got any more ideas???????

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Just for a check, how is the wiring inside the tailgate rubber boot in the photo below looks like? Look very close.

Nihycuh.jpg

My last idea is to have a look inside relay plate. Maybe at one time in the past there was water in it and there's corrosion in there. Or some dirt/bug/whatever that bridges the circuits randomly. I don't have evidence for that but it's a possibility. I've told you that intermittent failures are difficult to catch. If you remember something related that coincides with the fuse blowing, please share the info.

 

If anyone else has better ideas, I'd be happy to learn about them too. I've tried my best remote diagnose.

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hi thanks again for the info, i checked the tailgate wires a while ago as i remember when i have a volvo 240 the tailgate wires use to be really bad for having cracks and breakages in. But they all seem fine.

 

UPDATE:

Ok last night we had a very heavy down pour and today i thought i would check the lights again and they all seemed fine however what i noticed this time that the drivers foot well, and insulation under right hand side steering column was wet and after giving it a squeeze a load of water came out, so possibly in the past only damp and small amount of water had been getting in but not enough to come through the insulation hence no evidence. But after the big down pour of rain this showed a leak. However when i took the dash out it all seem and looked dry and all the padding was bone dry. So i can anyone advised best places to check for blocked holes and possible leaks??? also could this just be another problem and not related to the electrical problem?? Should i take the dash out again? I did read on other threads of corrosion around window and window seals, however i am looking for a cheap fix as i will have the car in till March 2017 when i will leave the UK, as i am going to Africa for 16 months to do unpaid charity work. The car has been great and the estate is surprising big once seats are down, and the 1.3MPI engine is great, i would easily have another one on my return. 

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On a hunch, tell us a little about your car. Mileage, repairs, proper maintenance? Is the wiring 100% original? Most importantly, are there any 3rd party electrical devices installed? Like radio, anti-theft alarm system, USB chargers, extra lights, tuning stuff ,etc.

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Hi Ricardo the car has done 119,000. Wiring i Believe is all original, and nothing has been added still the original radio. The car has ben serviced with a Skoda dealer up to 2014 then it was done by a mechanic who owned the car to who i bought the car from this year (March 2016). I really am scratching my head, I will give another check over the next few days as the ame fuse has blown again after 3 days but if no joy by wednesday i will book it into a garage and see if they can find anything. But in till then any ideas?

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I thought that there is some aftermarket device installed or some original wiring modification that you don't know about or didn't think of. In that case different diagnosis rules apply. Since that is not the case I can't think of anything else. That is the drawback of remote diagnostics via forums. We have to rely on poster's eyes, hands and skills.

 

If you'll go to a garage, ask them to have a closer look inside relay box. Explain them what have you checked so far. They will have to show you evidence for the fault otherwise you'll return to them a few days later with the same symptoms.

 

Keep us posted.

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hi all to have contributed this this topic. I took it to the garage and they said when they did there tests that they found a couple of bulbs that were not correct for there intended use even though there were working and corrosion free and that they had found a bulb which was causing a draw which they believed was causing it to blow the bulb was ever so slightly blackened on the glass. So far it hasn't blown but its only been two days, and in the past the fuse sometimes lasts a week, i am not totally sure if this is the cause because apart from the bulbs i changed that were rusty which are the correct bulbs, the rest of the bulbs haven't been changed for over a year so unless the bulb causing the draw has gotten worse overtime this could be the only reason. However i had to admit when i checked the bulbs i was looking for blown bulbs, corrosion, loose fittings etc, i never once thought to check every bulb to see if it was the correct specification for light, i think because the bub was working i assumed it was correct my fault, but i never thought someone in the past would just put whatever bulb they thought would work, so i suppose lesson learned. So if you ever have problems like this its not always something complicated but could be something as simple as wrong bulbs. 

 

but i will put an updated later in a couple of weeks and mark this topic as solved if all is still going well. I would also like to thank everyone again for the information and that this forum is really useful and a must for Skoda owners. I like i have said i have owned many types of cars from luxury cars to even 2-stroke engine cars(great fun) and this is my first Skoda and i have to admit i like the Felicia is simple, reliable, capable, cheap, and comfortable, and i would have another, the estate which i have is surprising big and can hold a lot more than you think. 

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...that they found a couple of bulbs that were not correct for there intended use...

Really? What bulbs? Where were they installed? And what exactly means "not correct for their intended use"?

 

...they had found a bulb which was causing a draw which they believed was causing it to blow the bulb was ever so slightly blackened on the glass.

Again, where was it installed? And how come the said bulb blew the fuse from time to time?

 

I'm asking because to me the answers look fishy. A 7.5A fuse blows at over 90W electrical load. That's a lot. I don't see what 2 bulbs (one front one rear) for the right side lights draw suddenly 90W. If they really fixed the problem I think they found an intermittent short that you missed. My sole interest is that we, the members of this forum section, learn something useful and true from your problem

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hi Ricardo here is some more detail from the invoice:

O/S/R sidelight bulb incorrect current draw = fit correct bulb

O/S/F sidelight bulb high resistance = replace bulb

N/S/R upper sidelight bulb blown = replace bulb

 

like i said i will see how it goes i know that i replaced a couple of bulbs but like i said i replaced with what manufacturer stated.

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I presume that F, R, and S means front, rear, and side respectively. What stands N and O for?
 
Let me analize the invoice details:
 
O/S/R sidelight bulb incorrect current draw = fit correct bulb - that is a mystery to me, unless there was a 21W directional bulb fitted instead of a 5W side one. Even so the fuse shouldn't blow
O/S/F sidelight bulb high resistance = replace bulb - this means old bulb with lower luminosity. Nothing to do with blown fuse
N/S/R upper sidelight bulb blown = replace bulb - just a simple 5W bulb blown. Nothing to do with blown fuse

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hi to answer N=nearside and O=offside.

 

I found it hard to believe a bulb was blown considering i have checked all the bulbs and they were all fine a few days later one is blown. Apparently they testing the wiring and found draw leading to that bulb, the bulb did have some blackened glass as they showed me, but the bulb did work. They said with a combination of all these must have been enough to cause it to blow the fuse, i know i was a little bit weary about all this, but if the fuse doesn't blow come Xmas then i guess they were right but time will tell. 

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