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ACTION REQUIRED letter


ejstubbs

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I was not accusing anybody personally but the whole subject is a load of old nonsense. All manufacturers are up to it to steal a march on competitors. I apologise if anyone is offended as I was accusing the industry not owners. Motoring Which? highlighted the problem years ago as their emission tests always exceeded the manufacturers specs

Edited by edbostan
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I would not mind but the whole fiasco is crazy.  Our cars have a piece of software that detects when they are being tested for emissions for type approval, so what the dickens has that got to do with normal every day use?

The whole thing is ridiculous!

 

I certainly will not allow them to mess with my car.

 

Norry

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Just received letter which provides many more questions than answers. In view of the many uncertainties it looks like the sensible thing for me to do is nothing at the present time. My engine has had done 20,000 VERY smooth miles since a UNICORN remap and the prospect of getting a software update does not appeal in the slightest. My view would be the same even without the remap.

 

PS I was geordiebroon in my earlier life on Briskoda

Edited by 2Geordiebroon
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Our cars have a piece of software that detects when they are being tested for emissions for type approval, so what the dickens has that got to do with normal every day use?

 

This has been asked a lot.  In fact this is the very nub of the issue.  What VW did was programme the car to recognise when it was being tested and, when it did, to run in a nice, clean manner.  This is the cheat.  However, as soon as the car is out on the road, it realises it is now no longer under scrutiny and reverts to a more driver-friendly engine map, which gives a better driving experience in terms of power, torque and whatever but, crucially, is now no longer compliant with the NOx emissions legislation requirements.  So, in every day driving, the car is non-compliant and 'illegal'.  The fix seeks to make the car run in a compliant mode all the time, so it isn't about removing the cheat, it's about making the cheat the normal.

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This has been asked a lot.  In fact this is the very nub of the issue.  What VW did was programme the car to recognise when it was being tested and, when it did, to run in a nice, clean manner.  This is the cheat.  However, as soon as the car is out on the road, it realises it is now no longer under scrutiny and reverts to a more driver-friendly engine map, which gives a better driving experience in terms of power, torque and whatever but, crucially, is now no longer compliant with the NOx emissions legislation requirements.  So, in every day driving, the car is non-compliant and 'illegal'.  The fix seeks to make the car run in a compliant mode all the time, so it isn't about removing the cheat, it's about making the cheat the normal.

Except that the car is not "non-compliant and illegal". The law requires that a sample car performs a certain emissions testing regime, but your car was never required to be submitted to, never mind "pass", that testing. As long as your car does not "emit objectionable black smoke" it is legal.

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Except that the car is not "non-compliant and illegal". The law requires that a sample car performs a certain emissions testing regime, but your car was never required to be submitted to, never mind "pass", that testing. As long as your car does not "emit objectionable black smoke" it is legal.

Exactly!!

 

They have not been able fixed the emissions with this software or they would have done it the first time round.

 

The whole business is rubbish!

 

Norry

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Except that the car is not "non-compliant and illegal". The law requires that a sample car performs a certain emissions testing regime, but your car was never required to be submitted to, never mind "pass", that testing. As long as your car does not "emit objectionable black smoke" it is legal.

I think you'll find that should say a representative sample car.

Because of the cheat, none of the cars tested were representative of the real car, with the software map used on the road.

Construction and Use regs say that nothing must be done to worsen the emissions relative to that which was (type) tested. VW group themselves did such a worsening - by not using the same software outside the test environment - therefore technically all the cars are indeed illegal. Would be a long court case though...

Edited by Wino
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Oddly you can buy a Skoda Approved Used Car, or a VW, Seat, Audi Approved used car and if no Service was due then a Service might not be done 

just the 'Workshop checks', 

This is why 'Service Campaign Recall Actions' on things can be outstanding even when a Main Dealer sold the vehicle.

'A Sticker should be in the Spare Tyre well beside the VIN Sticker when the likes of a DSG Service Campaign action has been carried out, 

as it will be with the 'Recall Actions to remove the Defeat Device software.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

(The Fix recall campaign does not show on this checker, others that are outstanding should.)

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I think you'll find that should say a representative sample car.

Because of the cheat, none of the cars tested were representative of the real car, with the software map used on the road.

Construction and Use regs say that nothing must be done to worsen the emissions relative to that which was (type) tested. VW group themselves did such a worsening - by not using the same software outside the test environment - therefore technically all the cars are indeed illegal. Would be a long court case though...

If it was proved that the cars were illegal, the fix would be compulsory (or the car deemed unroadworthy), VAG fined 'big time' and we would all be due compensation. This is the case in the US where the NOx limits are exceeded without the cheat device. In Europe, as I understand it, the EuroV limits are not exceeded - which begs the question why are they fixing it.

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If it was proved that the cars were illegal, the fix would be compulsory (or the car deemed unroadworthy), VAG fined 'big time' and we would all be due compensation. This is the case in the US where the NOx limits are exceeded without the cheat device. In Europe, as I understand it, the EuroV limits are not exceeded - which begs the question why are they fixing it.

 

Wishful thinking as I understand it.  As you say, if the cars would've passed without the cheat, why on earth would they risk the cheat being discovered?, they'd have just not used it at all.  Some will say "it wasn't used in EU tests, it was just dormant software". Well if that were true, surely VW group would've moved heaven and earth to prove that, job done?

I think the more pertinent difference between EU and US situations is that the rules/law on what is/isn't permitted in the testing in the US is worded better, so it's clear that in US law the cheat was illegal. Not so clear cut in the EU apparently, so despite admitting that 11 million cars are affected by the 'strategy' they used for passing the tests, they aren't admitting that it was against the laws as written. 

Edited by Wino
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I don't care if it does what vag claim (not to be trusted)even if all their claims are met ,there are no written guarantees on how these changes will effect the EGR and DPF in the future and I'm sure vag/Skoda will not be any help if there is premature failures on vehicles that are over 3 years old.If vag want to give a further 3 years warranty after the changes I might consider the changes but as it stands no way are they getting away with this once my warrant has ended if I decide to keep the car.

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If it was proved that the cars were illegal, the fix would be compulsory (or the car deemed unroadworthy), VAG fined 'big time' and we would all be due compensation. This is the case in the US where the NOx limits are exceeded without the cheat device. In Europe, as I understand it, the EuroV limits are not exceeded - which begs the question why are they fixing it.

 

The Euro 5* emissions are exceeded, no question.  This is why they are having to deploy updated fuel injection strategies and use "diesel combustion technology not available at the time your car was manufactured" [sic] to fix it.

 

Strictly, the type approval for the cars is thrown into question which would mean their sale in EU would be illegal, but I'm guessing there's enough wiggle room in the legislation and negotiation to avoid this issue.  Like how the DVLA have agreed that they won't retrospectively alter VED rates for affected cars.  Actually I'd bet that they have actually been better on CO2 than declared, so maybe we should be pushing for a retrospective refund.....?  :D

 

* geeky pedant's note: passenger car Euro norms use Arabic numerals, heavy duty vehicle Euro norms use Roman numerals.  Thus ours are Euro 5 rather than Euro V.

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Having spoken to the Seat department of the VAG empire after receiving an update letter, they tell me this fix (not yet available for our Toledo/Rapid clone) is not mandatory and will not effect the warranty left on the car should I decide not to have the work carried out, which I'm not.

 

Also had the car in this week for a warranty replacement of an increasingly creaky accelerator peddle and noted on the job card that a 'Field Actions 23Q6' was carried out but no action was currently required. This I'm assuming has something to do with the dodgy software, so I'll have to remember to tell the dealer to leave well alone next time I need to take it in.

 

 

TP

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.... This I'm assuming has something to do with the dodgy software, so I'll have to remember to tell the dealer to leave well alone next time I need to take it in....

 

A wise move, probably.  As reported elsewhere here, my dealer suggested that a signature might be needed on such an instruction - which I duly supplied when Annie went in for a service/MoT recently; "...Not to be installed without my explicit agreement...".  I would repeat it whenever and for whatever reason they have the car in. 

 

PS  No letter yet

Edited by Brijo
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Also received in this mornings post.

I have called customer services regarding one concern:-

"...I can confirm that there will be no change to your vehicle's engine performance, maximum torque or noise levels."

I politely asked for the data to support the claims as the torque comment is not specific enough for me. Max torque may be unchanged but at/across what revs?

Technical are getting back to me, as Skoda UK hold no data. They are acting upon a go ahead from the factory.

 

Colin

 

Update.

72hrs and no call, so I called Skoda back. 14 minutes listening to terrible "music" and then talked to somebody who could got help, so had to put me on hold whilst he asked for assistance. Still no luck, so now escalated to "Executive emissions team" who will get back to me within 48hrs.

 

How about other forum members also phoning in.

 

Colin

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 "Executive emissions team" 

 

 

Are they any different to "normal emissions"as often happen following eating a curry? :giggle: 

Probably just as effective!

Fred

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Are they any different to "normal emissions"as often happen following eating a curry? :giggle: 

Probably just as effective!

Fred

I think it just means you speak to anyone they can find in the call centre wearing business attire.

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Maybe, Might Be, Could be after 2020.

 or sooner if the London Mayors suggestion on pre 2005 / or Euro 4 Emission Diesels being charged.

A Euro 5 TDI might put out as much NoX as those but then the Government were the ones that accepted and promoted their purchase with Tax Breaks and a Scrappage Scheme in 2009. so time will tell.

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Well had mine done yesterday at North Wales Skoda, took a lot longer than they said it would though.

Drove sixty miles home, and couldn't see any difference whatsoever in power levels.

Time will tell wether MPG has been affected.

Got a nice Skoda goodie bag for taking it in, and they washed and valeted my car for free..

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Well had mine done yesterday at North Wales Skoda, took a lot longer than they said it would though.

Drove sixty miles home, and couldn't see any difference whatsoever in power levels.

Time will tell wether MPG has been affected.

Got a nice Skoda goodie bag for taking it in, and they washed and valeted my car for free..

Do you think the goodie bag came from Skoda as an genuine 'thank you/sorry' or simply a good dealer valuing their customer? We're the contents of real value or just a cheap pen, a gonk and an accessory brochure?
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A very nice skoda note book, a good quality skoda brolly, and a skoda flask.

Didn't expect anything as I have never used them before (or any other garage as I'm a mechanic).

Did tell them the car didn't need cleaning, but they did it anyhow..

Off to Ireland next week, so will do a lot of mileage and give the car a proper test..

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