ACTION REQUIRED letter

[Breezy_Pete]

That will be about Maximum HP & Torque and the scores on the doors.

If you want to know about the 'curve', and where your torque is then a Dynamic Dyno before and after 'The Fix' can show you just much what you see 

when doing Before & After with a Remap.

But the curve is generated with the engine at full throttle, isn't it?

[Rooted]

?

What is it that people are so worried about, is it performance up through the gears to get to UK NSL's or speeds in Continental Europe or is it Pulling Power with the vehicle loaded or towing?

If it is the above then it is up to them to get 'the scores on the doors' as their vehicle is before and after.

If Fuel Consumption is their worry, then if they service the vehicle and then monitor a Years worth of Economy then they can compare their vehicle a year older after having The Fix 

for the next year.

 

As to shorter engine life if there is that possibility, that is going to be a hard one to be certain on, especially if the car is not a keeper.

[Breezy_Pete]

Is that a yes or a no?

[Rooted]

Is that a yes or no to a Dyno being carried out giving the vehicle lalddy.

 

Yes you strap it down and gearbox dependent you boot the thing and see what you get from it.

Is that not what people are worried about.  Their Dirty Diesels will no longer be able to get a 0-60 under 10 seconds or so, 

worrying that they will be keeping their licences and not be able to get a shift on while getting a implausible economy.

[Breezy_Pete]

What's a lalddy?

[Rooted]

You never watch Star Trek?

http://laldy.com

[Breezy_Pete]

OK, so are we agreeing now that a RR session may not be very useful in determining the affect of the reprogramming on normal driving? That's all I was trying to establish; not asking how people drive.

[Rooted]

If you want to assess normal driving you drive your car and assess.

The thing is that many that bother about the Fix are not driving cars that need The Fix' and if they are and know how to check a vehicle with the use of Logging etc they will surely be doing it.

Many do not even know the tyre pressures are dropping, or the Oil or Coolant without a warning message or light, or if Winter Fuel affects their vehicles fuel economy, or it is just using lights and heaters in winter that does.

 

It is a shame that the UK Motoring Press are not Checking The Fix.  The owners of Haymarket Publishing that produce some of the UK's best selling Motoring Mags are owners 

of a Vehicle Testing Company, but then maybe getting the results is not a priority or good move for them.

They will be looking to be a Government Approved Facility / Company for new Emission Testing and Consultancy.

Edited 23 November, 2016 by Offski

[Breezy_Pete]

Not big on yes-or-no answers are you. 

[Rooted]

What do you want an answer on?

Have you done logs before or after the Fix or are you offering to for members.

Are you actually up on anything concerning the fix and changes to mapping and do you care to share it?

 

Is your interest academic on it?  Personally my interest is just to see what the outcome is because i have never been present at a Diesel being Tested Before and After on a Dyno.

I have tested Petrol Engine vehicles before & after Factory Updates and seen where they have been responsible for a lower power output.

These were Software Updates done because the Manufacturers were having issues with engine failures due to the Original Factory Engine Management.

Edited 23 November, 2016 by Offski

[Breezy_Pete]

For posts 101 and 107, I would've been quite happy with yes or no, maybe with some explanation if either was a no.

 

I've not done any logs on affected cars. I cannot log stuff except on older cars as I only have KKL-cable/VCDS Lite. I believe there are a significant number of members with full VCDS capability though, possibly even some with affected cars.

I don't know anything about how VW are changing the mapping/calibration.  However; knowing that EGR on diesels is primarily there to reduce engine-out NOx, it doesn't seem to me to be a radical idea that they may have changed how much it's used. VCDS logging of a given A-B journey, possibly a few times to eliminate random variables a bit, could establish whether EGR is being used more/less/same as before quite readily, I believe?

 

My interest is indeed academic/scientific, as it usually is in my life.

[g6zru]

What do you want an answer on?

Have you done logs before or after the Fix or are you offering to for members.

Are you actually up on anything concerning the fix and changes to mapping and do you care to share it?

 

Is your interest academic on it?  Personally my interest is just to see what the outcome is because i have never been present at a Diesel being Tested Before and After on a Dyno.

I have tested Petrol Engine vehicles before & after Factory Updates and seen where they have been responsible for a lower power output.

These were Software Updates done because the Manufacturers were having issues with engine failures due to the Original Factory Engine Management.

I've just remembered why I used the ignore list for this poster!

 

Fred

[Rooted]

Yes but you always come back because your ignore button is broken, then you comment on remembering, remember now?

[Falmouthboy]

If you want to assess normal driving you drive your car and assess.

The thing is that many that bother about the Fix are not driving cars that need The Fix' and if they are and know how to check a vehicle with the use of Logging etc they will surely be doing it.

Many do not even know the tyre pressures are dropping, or the Oil or Coolant without a warning message or light, or if Winter Fuel affects their vehicles fuel economy, or it is just using lights and heaters in winter that does.

 

It is a shame that the UK Motoring Press are not Checking The Fix.  The owners of Haymarket Publishing that produce some of the UK's best selling Motoring Mags are owners 

of a Vehicle Testing Company, but then maybe getting the results is not a priority or good move for them.

They will be looking to be a Government Approved Facility / Company for new Emission Testing and Consultancy.

I'm a member of Which and they plan to do some evaluation - the trouble is, there are a number of different 'fixes' across the VAG range, some involve parts as well as a software tweak and the impact is likely to be different in different cars. I suspect as the fix is so new they want to get their facts straight first.

[Rooted]

If you do not start sometime then you will not get on very quick with it.

VW did their evaluations and got approvals, then the Regulators held them up and did evaluations after reports of issues with vehicles already with the Fix.

 

So how long does anyone want to start with the first vehicles that had the Defeat Device Removed in the UK or Continental Europe.

[Sad555]

It isn't what effect you notice if you have the fix done, to me it's problems that might occur with the EGR and DPF at a later date and if one the these fail I don't thin VAG of Skoda will want to know and disenvow all responsibility IF it was caused by their fix.

[longedge]

I no longer need to decide when the letter comes. Just ordered a 1.2 SE L DSG to replace my Black Edition. It seemed recently to be in the middle of a regen every time I stopped so I've pre-empted DPF problems that seemed inevitable because I no longer do any long journeys. I was in negative equity so I said thanks but no thanks to what I was offered initially. However I got a call with something a lot nearer to my target a couple of hours after I got home   and said yes. Something to do with an extra bonus that Skoda are giving for cars that are delivered before the end of the year so it's one that's in stock somewhere I assume.

[coldplug]

I've not done any logs on affected cars. I cannot log stuff except on older cars as I only have KKL-cable/VCDS Lite. I believe there are a significant number of members with full VCDS capability though, possibly even some with affected cars.

I don't know anything about how VW are changing the mapping/calibration.

 

Hi,

 

VCDS won't be of much help to determine if remapping is done. You need flashing software to download original map, save it to your computer, then after "fix" repeat process and see if something is different in map file. If it is, you can reinstall your older saved map if you wish.

 

Here you are quick example if you want to play with it:

Edited 24 November, 2016 by coldplug

[Breezy_Pete]

 

Hi,

 

VCDS won't be of much help to determine if remapping is done. You need flashing software to download original map, save it to your computer, then after "fix" repeat process and see if something is different in map file. If it is, you can reinstall your older saved map if you wish.

 

Here you are quick example if you want to play with it:

I haven't suggested examining the software itself.  VCDS can be used to log the behaviour of many parts of the car, including EGR valve usage. This is what I am suggesting is looked at before and after the software remap. Logs showing how the EGR functions during a given journey. An indirect way of seeing what the new software may be doing differently. Actually reading the software and comparing before/after would be a very different approach, and maybe rather difficult to interpret?

 

If people don't want their software changed, there's no need to do anything at all in the UK, except  to make sure their wishes are clearly communicated if they take the car to Skoda for other reasons..

Edited 25 November, 2016 by Wino

[coldplug]

Actually reading the software and comparing before/after would be a very different approach, and maybe rather difficult to interpret?

 

Actually very easy if one wants to know only if there is a change, by just comparing two files together, by performing any diff tool on two files, for example:

http://winmerge.org/?lang=en

Of course if you want to know what is actually changed, then knowledge of remapping will be required:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpuH1y6t8Y6q9kP6ope8VA/playlists

[Breezy_Pete]

Seems obvious that there will be a change.

[coldplug]

Seems obvious that there will be a change.

Well, not in a map itself possibly. It is hard to know what they will do when they don't want to tell anything - don't understand that policy but... If they only delete that cheating piece of code then it should not require reuploading new map. It is different stuff. If map is changed then fueling is changed and performance must change somehow, regardless they say it doesn't.

[Breezy_Pete]

I had a look at one of your linked videos, about EGR map in EDC15, it's interesting, and yes, it could be a way of comparing the behaviour of the car before and after the reprogramming. 

 

I think just looking at the EGR logs with VCDS will be considerably easier for most people, once one person actually does this logging to produce some data.

[coldplug]

In fact when I look closer to the issue, it seems to me that the mentioned piece of software could actually be inside file that flashing software would download. In that case diff tool will register change even if no fueling/map change is performed. If that is true then only detailed look into map itself could reveal if changes to mapping (and thus performance) is done.

 

I believe somebody will do it eventually, but for now I can't find anything such on Internet.

[KenONeill]

 

Actually very easy if one wants to know only if there is a change, by just comparing two files together, by performing any diff tool on two files, for example:

http://winmerge.org/?lang=en

Of course if you want to know what is actually changed, then knowledge of remapping will be required:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpuH1y6t8Y6q9kP6ope8VA/playlists

Point of order - Most diff programmes will return "binary files differ" when given 2 compilations of the same code on different dates as objects.