Yeti burning oil. Should pistons and rods be replaced as well as piston rings?

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

There's various reasons for failures though and oil grade alone cannot be the definitive cause. Poor production materials and misinformation regarding how an engine should be treated at the point of sale and in the owners manual play a large part of it. The vehicles that are having problems were always going to have them regardless of what oil they were using.

If they have a thirst for oil then changing the grade is mearly masking an inevitably underlying problem.

All the swaps I've done have all had the same oil used there after and had no problems. In most cases they were burning oil with 5w30s prior to their repairs and stopped burning using the exact same oil post repair.

[Rooted]

http://blauparts.com/vw-oils/vw_oil_german_ravenol.html

 

You do know the failure rate of the Mk2 Fabia in the UK that have had replacement engines that have failed again do you not.

Have Skoda UK ever told you?

As to the 5w 30's use in the twinchargers, the problem does continue even with new Oil Spray Jets.

Maybe you should consider the 5W 40 (VW 502 00) speak with the VW Factory.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by Offski

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Most customers want as much as they can get for as little money as possible with parts that are approved by manufacturers, that stands for any buyer/purchase action as a consumer.

We could happily use oil that costs £50 a gallon that is marginally better than what VW AG supply but people don't want to pay that. They just want a product that does the job as cheap and efficiently as possible.

It's funny how many VW group cars have stickers under the bonnet and literature in the service pack supporting the use of the likes of Castrol GTX, shell helix etc yet you rarely see it on the shelves in the parts departments and quantum which is supplied directly from VW AG to the dealer network tends to be Fuchs.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by James@RRGRochdale

[muddyjim]

This articles also compares the different VAG Oil specs

 

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php

 

Jim

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

http://blauparts.com/vw-oils/vw_oil_german_ravenol.html

You do know the failure rate of the Mk2 Fabia in the UK that have had replacement engines that have failed again do you not.

Have Skoda UK ever told you?

As to the 5w 30's use in the twinchargers, the problem does continue even with new Oil Spray Jets.

Maybe you should consider the 5W 40 (VW 502 00) speak with the VW Factory.

They used to, yes when engines were being replaced like for like in the early days of this issue.

An oil burner now, be it a 1.4, 1.8 or 2.0 TSI engine has the relevant modified internals required to prevent this issue occurring.

I can speak from the personal experience of replacing more of these engines than I can remember, as I've said numerous times. All the modifications do is try to bring the engine within spec and don't last. With a new engine the problem is resolved and can happily run 5w30s or 5w40s to their hearts content.

I've seen repeat occurrences of engines burning oil after replacement, it was all down to engines being fitted that were no different to the ones being removed.

I've done my time with the bocca's and cupras, now I've moved on to the fabias, superbs, octavias and yetis.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by James@RRGRochdale

[Rooted]

James most customers trust the manufacturers recommendations and the Dealerships.

 

Owners of French Manufactured cars see a TOTAL sticker under the bonnet.

 

What we are talking about is an engine which failed as other certain VW engines fail, 

but VW seldom if ever change their recommendations on consumables, but then they seldom accept they build some lemons, 

have Fundamental Design, Manufacturing or Component Choice and Quality Control, or reveal what failing they have with Engine Management.

 

Some owners just want a reliable engine where there is a risk of failure and Long Servicing Intervals or the easy to stock and retail and use 

and 'Highest Spec' according to the VW Group might not be what gives the best protection.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

That may be true in some instances but there will always be occasions where one product is deemed better for the job, by some - than that set by the manufacturer.

If someone were to present the relevant findings to our company and could assure us that across the range of engines that we sell and maintain, that a lesser specced item could offer the same, if not higher quality of operation with no vastly increased costs involved and at no risks to ourselves or the customer then it would be no problem. But as far as RRG see it - it's the best the manufacturer can offer and that's what we want our customers to have.

If someone were to request that we use 5W40s oil in their car then we would happily supply and use said oil but after quite a long period of business in the skoda market with no directly related failings to oil grade we use it will no doubt remain that we continue to use only 5w30s unless asked otherwise.

Just for the record - I am and always have been completely against extended/longlife/variable servicing since it was introduced. Ticking time bomb with enough failings of older engines to show it only saves pence over pounds.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by James@RRGRochdale

[Rooted]

Yes i understand that.

But you said as others do that what you use offers the best protection.  Not actually correct, as Long Life Oil & Long Servicing Intervals is a convenience.

 

Castrol have worked a long time with VW, and there are new oils and all that jazz, and VW stand by their partners, especially where they benefit from it.

 

As to requesting VW 502 00 , 5w 40 FS it is just a pity so many at a Dealership Service Desk say that is Semi Synthetic and we can and will not use that.

But then customers have a tongue in their head and a brain and when they can speak with Technicians like yourself they can get what might suit them and the car. 

and even be prepared to pay for Long Life oil without getting long life and just accept what they use their car for and Fixed Servicing and not Long Life Oil.

 

PS

Something not clear yet at VW, Skoda, SEAT or Audi HQs, 

like getting Service Indicators on Vehicles and Oil Changes and Dealership Servicing and Maintenance regimes sorted out, 

and clear enough explanations to Buyers as to what is available before they collect a vehicle or the PDI.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

If it can go on a website it can go in brochures and leaflets.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by Offski

[rayx]

Lot of info, but the clue is ACEA. Cx oils have worse cleaning specs than A3/B4 oils, Cx are primarily designed for DPF, using it in petrols makes things worse. But be aware, VW 502.00 oil for fixed interval can have Cx too, I would rather avoid it and look for pure A3/B4. Oil with specs A3/B4/Cx is nonsence as Cx goes against A3/B4.

 

As mentioned above, VW Russia recommends on russian market into 1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engines oil with VW502.00, ACEA A3/B4, viscosity 0W30. Use this info as you want B)

Edited 21 December, 2016 by rayx

[KenONeill]

Lot of info, but the clue is ACEA. Cx oils have worse cleaning specs than A3/B4 oils, Cx are primarily designed for DPF, using it in petrols makes things worse. But be aware, VW 502.00 oil for fixed interval can have Cx too, I would rather avoid it and look for pure A3/B4. Oil with specs A3/B4/Cx is nonsence as Cx goes against A3/B4.

 

As mentioned above, VW Russia recommends on russian market into 1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engines oil with VW502.00, ACEA A3/B4, viscosity 0W30. Use this info as you want B)

What that tells me is that "it can be very cold in Russia in Winter". (see also references to "General Winter" and his part in the "Great Patriotic War")

[rayx]

Well, winter conditions etc, then you need lower viscosity xW. I do not want to speak about SAE viscosity, that is not that critical, europeans should be fine with 5W40 or 5W30.

 

What important is intently bold in my previous contribution. But as I said, thousands users, thousands ideas what oil to use, never-ending source of discussions ...

Edited 21 December, 2016 by rayx

[VAGCF]

Yes i understand that.

But you said as others do that what you use offers the best protection.  Not actually correct, as Long Life Oil & Long Servicing Intervals is a convenience.

 

Castrol have worked a long time with VW, and there are new oils and all that jazz, and VW stand by their partners, especially where they benefit from it.

 

As to requesting VW 502 00 , 5w 40 FS it is just a pity so many at a Dealership Service Desk say that is Semi Synthetic and we can and will not use that.

But then customers have a tongue in their head and a brain and when they can speak with Technicians like yourself they can get what might suit them and the car. 

and even be prepared to pay for Long Life oil without getting long life and just accept what they use their car for and Fixed Servicing and not Long Life Oil.

 

PS

Something not clear yet at VW, Skoda, SEAT or Audi HQs, 

like getting Service Indicators on Vehicles and Oil Changes and Dealership Servicing and Maintenance regimes sorted out, 

and clear enough explanations to Buyers as to what is available before they collect a vehicle or the PDI.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

If it can go on a website it can go in brochures and leaflets.

I've mentioned this on a previous thread, but when I booked my TT in for a 12 months service and 3k. on the clock the service adviser actually argued with me over having the oil and filter done as the car was on Longlife servicing! I initially booked the service but then cancelled it and went to another main dealer. The adviser there actually agreed with me that it was a good idea to change the oil whatever the mileage.

 

I've only ever kept one car on Longlife servicing but it always went against the grain with me. In fact I've sometimes wished I'd had the oil changed at 500 miles like in days of yore! A first oil change at 12k. never mind 20k. seems daft to me, no matter if oil technology has moved on.

 

But it's having the oil changed every year, is the latest 2.0 tfsi engine, is never abused and will never do many miles (it's a keeper) so am as confident as can be that it will be fine.

 

The Yeti probably won't be a keeper but that's on annual servicing as well.

Edited 21 December, 2016 by VAGCF

[Rooted]

The thing is that Diesel Engines had Coolant & Oil which is a Coolant and lubricant and the fuel is Diesel Oil and we know how that works well.

 

Then Petrol (Gasoline) engines have Coolant, Oil & the fuels used, out there in there millions, no issues, 

Its the Fuels & Oils commonly used, no problem, follow manufacturers recommendations.

 

Then there is the Volkswagen Group, Millions and Millions of engines built, 

& then they have some TSI's / TFSI's. 

Poor Design, Manufacturing, Materials, Quality Control and failures, 

one issue causing failures can be 'bore wash'.   So as boring as it is, Fuels (Detergents) and Oils can be an issue.  

But then VW the 2nd biggest car manufacturer in the world would always tell Owners & Buyers why there are problems, they would never mislead them.

[VAGCF]

What always frustrates me with car manufacturers is that they have years and years of experience to draw on and spend a fortune on R&D and testing etc. and use advanced manufacturing methods and yet time and again there are serious problems which the poor old customer gets saddled with. 

 

In this day and age it really is a poor show.

[brianja138]

Over the last 18yrs we have purchased 4 new VAG cars and specified long-life oil from the factory. We have followed the 'oil change due' indication and always used long-life oil.

 

2 of these cars had the 1.8tsi engine. The first had the elastomer cam belt and the other the chain, both ran well for 100k hard mls before being sold on.

 

None of these engines suffered any mechanical damage or excessive oil use.

 

Were we just lucky, who knows?

 

Guess which oil type we will continue to use? You pay your money – you make the choice.

[Ryeman]

What always frustrates me with car manufacturers is that they have years and years of experience to draw on and spend a fortune on R&D and testing etc. and use advanced manufacturing methods and yet time and again there are serious problems which the poor old customer gets saddled with. 

 

In this day and age it really is a poor show.

Except Honda and Toyota, but they are conservative when it comes to choosing between the very latest technology and the most reliable.

Or

....their QA is simply superior

[YetiSweden]

Another update on my Yeti: I got the car back yesterday, drove for a couple of miles and noticed the orange engine warning light is on! Aaagh! It has to go back to the garage. Super annoying. It's -24ºC and we're going to be without a car (cycling everywhere instead) for who knows how long! 

[brianja138]

It's -24ºC and we're going to be without a car (cycling everywhere instead) for who knows how long! 

 

If you ask nicely, can they not offer a courtesy car?

 

It is not your fault they have messed up!

 

Generally I have always found Scandinavians very reasonable people.

 

Good Luck, and Happy New Year. 

[rayx]

@YetiSweden - did anyone from dealer tell you what service was done on the car? And what warning light you mean exactly, the yellow/orange oil jug? http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/warning-light/engine-oil-level

 

It looks they do not want to spend much on repair so I would rather give this car back to them and look for another one. The only possible fix is new pistons+rings, nothing else ...

Edited 6 January, 2017 by rayx

[YetiSweden]

Once they have figured out what the problem is, I will ask about the possibility of a courtesy car depending on how long they think the fix will take.

 

I know that the pistons, rings and rods were changed, and the whole job came to about £5,000 (paid by the dealer, work done by an independent garage). I really liked the car, and I was looking forward to having it back with pretty much a brand new engine! Now I'm concerned they haven't done the job correctly (this was the first job of this kind they have done and had to order new tools to do it). I'm seriously wondering whether the car is worth the hassle.

[YetiSweden]

@YetiSweden - did anyone from dealer tell you what service was done on the car? And what warning light you mean exactly, the yellow/orange oil jug? http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/warning-light/engine-oil-level

 

It looks they do not want to spend much on repair so I would rather give this car back to them and look for another one. The only possible fix is new pistons+rings, nothing else ...

 

Sorry, forgot to add, it's the yellow/orange check engine warning light (http://i.imgur.com/2Mgqg.jpg)

 

Edit: correct term emissions control lamp

Edited 6 January, 2017 by YetiSweden

[Rooted]

The New Engine (Base Engine not a Short Unit) would have cost about the same, so someones attempt to economise has gone badly wrong.

[brianja138]

Sorry, forgot to add, it's the yellow/orange check engine warning light (http://i.imgur.com/2Mgqg.jpg)

 

 

The VAG system for warning lights is;

 

Red: you should stop the car as soon as it's safe.

Yellow: action is required.

Green:for information only.

 

With our 1.8tsi It was intermittent, we called it 'the helicopter light'.

 

Fitting a new oxygen sensor, also called Lambda Sensor, in the exhaust system cured it in our case.

 

The garage may say just continue driving until we have time to fix.

 

[it should be their decision, to cover you]

[YetiSweden]

 

The VAG system for warning lights is;

 

Red: you should stop the car as soon as it's safe.

Yellow: action is required.

Green:for information only.

 

With our 1.8tsi It was intermittent, we called it 'the helicopter light'.

 

Fitting a new oxygen sensor, also called Lambda Sensor, in the exhaust system cured it in our case.

 

The garage may say just continue driving until we have time to fix.

 

[it should be their decision, to cover you]

 

They told us to drive as little as possible and drop it off with them asap. Dropping it off tomorrow. 

 

It just seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be related to the work they did, so I guess it's unlikely to be the Lambda sensor.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

A Major engine overhaul is carried out then the EML appears - I'd pretty much guarantee that it will be a result of something that's been touched during the work.