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Yeti burning oil. Should pistons and rods be replaced as well as piston rings?


YetiSweden

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Hi,


 


Despite googling a while I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer to this. fingers crossed someone here has some advice!


 


My 2009 Skoda Yeti is going through oil fast, and after running various diagnostics and fixing any potential leaks, the Skoda garage have diagnosed that the car is burning oil. If they were fixing the problem themselves, they would replace the piston rings, pistons and rods. Because I noticed and reported the problem within 6 months of buying the second hand car, according to Swedish law (I'm not Swedish, but live in Sweden), the seller has to fix the problem. He is not going to the Skoda garage, but to somewhere else where they've never dealt with this before, and they've told me they're not going to replace the pistons and rods, only the piston rings.


 


The Skoda garage tell me replacing just the rings is unlikely to fix the problem (although it may do for a short time). I don't know who to trust!


 


Is just replacing the rings a reasonable fix? 


 


Thanks in advance for your comments!


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Welcome to the forum.

 

?
what engine, TDI or TSI.

 

Likely replacing rings not enough if a TSI.

Head / Valves need inspected, Bearing dependent on miles / km.

A Base Engine should be expected, a Short Unit at least. 

 

Different engines, but for VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat 1.4 TSI Twincharger Units, there were Updated Oil Breathers, Software & New OIl Spray Jets as a sticking plaster fix, 

and still in the end engines were replaced. This is still happening now and the issue started in 2010.

(Back in 2011, just new piston rings were the Warranty Fix.)

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I see no reason to replace the rods in any event.

 

As to whether you need new pistons, that will depend on whether the bores just need honing (just need rings) or actually need to be rebored (will need over-size pistons).

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If doing that much I hope that valve stem oil seals will be replaced.
I suspect that this is the 1.8 TSI as they have a history of high oil consumption.

AS above why are they replacing the con-rods?

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Please excuse my ignorance, but would the need for reboring become aparant during the ring replacement?

 

If the cylinder walls are scratched by a broken ring replacing the rings is not going to give a complete repair.

It may not need doing at all or perhaps just a light hone.

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The hone marks should be interesting to see.

VW knows all about this issue from what I've read and it should have been dealt with some time ago.

Ditto the stem seals.

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If doing that much I hope that valve stem oil seals will be replaced.

I suspect that this is the 1.8 TSI as they have a history of high oil consumption.

AS above why are they replacing the con-rods?

 

That's what the Skoda guys say is recommended by Skoda. Exactly why, I have no idea.

 

Language issues are getting in the way of communication with the dealer who sold me the car. I'm getting a Swedish friend of mine to call him today and tell him that Skoda don't think ring replacement alone is going to be sufficient. He may just want to try it and see anyway, but I will be bringing it back in if it doesn't fix the problem, and that will mean he has to pay for the engine to be taken apart again...

 

Edit: yes, 1.8 TSI. No mention of oil seal replacement.

Edited by YetiSweden
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If everything was as simple, or everything in life as reliable as a Golf,

 or putting new rings & scrapers into VW Group engines that use Excessive amounts of oil it would be a wonderful world.

 

VW could far sooner have stopped putting in Rings made of chocolate, and the issue would not have grown as it has.

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Have they done a compression test? That should identify whether it is a bore/ring or valve seal problem.

 

Jim

They have already ruled out valves/seals being the issue, so yes I think it was a compression test they did.

 

 

If the engine number is less than CDA_221245 then the original pistons (06H 107 065 BS) must be replaced (together with connecting rods) with 06H 107 065 BK.

 

That's amazingly specific! Can you give me some more background to this?

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I sneaked it from this thread on a Russian forum. It describes several other common problems of this engine in addition to the one you have. Apparently, VAG has issued a bulletin on this, but I have never seen it.

 

Thanks for that! My husband is Russian actually, so I passed the untranslated page on to him.

 

The mechanical issue is becoming clearer now, but what will be done about it is less clear. I'm not sure I legally have the right to insist that the dealer does the full replacement required, if he's set on the cheap option of just replacing the rings. I can understand his point of view, as the work is extremely expensive. I'm not sure if we're doing the right thing insisting that he fix it, given the age and mileage of the car. But at the same time, if we were to sell it on, the problem would come back to us and we would have to pay for the work. 

 

Edit: Presumably the mechanic replacing the rings will see the dire state of the pistons and realise a ring replacement is not sufficient?!

Edited by YetiSweden
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Presumably there would be no extra labour charge for replacing the pistons,  as they have to be removed anyway to replace the rings.  A "halfway house" for you might be to offer to pay for the new pistons?

(But demand to be given the old ones,  to be sure they really put them in!)

Edited by Zarniwoop
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If Swedish Law has the vendor having to have remedial action taken what time scale does the repairs have to last for because surely 

a repairer has to guarantee their work and parts, and the Genuine VW parts have a 2 year warranty.

 

The Repairer should surely have access to Skoda / VW TPI's and also Skoda / VW Licensed Software & Diagnostics.

They are going to be needing them.

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Having just finished a repair and gone through this entire process I shall lend my enlightened opinion.

1.8tsi engine using oil.

There is a set test procedure which requires the use of the ODIS diagnostic system which measures the oil consumption via a weight test. I has to be done through the ODIS method for skoda HQ to be of any assistance.

This involves the removal of all the oil then the weighing and filling of the oil with a specific amount (found on ElsaPro). The vehicle must then cover around a 1000km and the oil be re-weighed. Once this has been carried out the repairs can move forward depending on the results.

There is a TPI which in some cases requires the replacement of the timing chain and tensioner but on the same bulletin it states that the pistons with rings and rods must be replaced too. The parts will have no doubt become the subject of redesign using different materials to conquer the issue.

In order to carry out this task the engine needs removing to strip it. The head will need removing and at that point the bores should be inspected by an independent engineering company who should then provide you with the measurements of the bores and a break down of their condition. They will probably find that they are scored and need liners fitting OR the block is found to be scrap.

At which point the most sensible option is a full new engine.

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Good stuff.

Lets hope those carrying out the consumption test are now clear from the instructions on the weight of the oil being drained and none are still working on it being 1000 grams a litre of engine oil.

That did mess up some official oil consumption tests.

Good to see the test is carried out over 1.000 km again and not 300km and then calculations done as it was being.

 

An Example of someone working as a technician with all the gear and no clear idea, hopefully they were retrained.

post-86161-0-88215300-1481297488_thumb.jpg

Edited by Offski
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There are plenty more examples of Test Results and Invoices like that but not all want them shared and they are good for when VW, Skoda, Audi & SEat UK Customer Services need examples of how poorly some Trained Technicians carry out Official Oil Consumption tests and even try to charge Customers for the Time & Materials.

(where someone does pay getting recompensed is usually quite easy when incompetence can be shown,)

 

Actually as VW Group Main Dealer Employees and Customer services refer to 'May use 0.5 litres 1000 km, 

which cover all engines from 3 cylinders and 44kw up including petrol and diesels, 4,5,6,8 cylinders,

 

2,000 km (1,242 miles) covered might be more accurate, as in what the oil usage is after an engine might have consumed the first 0.5 litres, 

especially since some are 2.8. 3.2 or 3.6 litres capacity, and can  be 1 litre or more low and no Oil Warning light shows, 

or a low oil pressure light shows before low oil warnings.

 

621 miles is just one tank of fuel in some VW Group models,. 

an Oil Consumption test covering 3 tanks of fuel is a more realistic indication of the excessive oil consumption.

 

After all VW never warn that a vehicle that has a 3.6 litre oil capacity might need 8 litres topping up between fixed servicing.

Then 372 days / 9,600 miles a new 3.6 litres is required to follow Service Schedule / guidelines and keep a Manufacturers Warranty valid.

 

The original testing over a shorter mileage when done correctly was actually more accurate than the ridiculous 300km tests.

post-86161-0-33021000-1481311527_thumb.jpg

post-86161-0-32729300-1481311540_thumb.jpg

Edited by Offski
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