Clutch replacement 5-speed box

[Breezy_Pete]

Who's replaced a clutch (themselves) on one of these 02T boxes?

 

At just shy of 150k it seems that the one in our Fabia needs replacing.

 

Any really awkward aspects?

Any 'really must replace' bolts? I think gearbox mount ones, dogbone mount ones, lower arm balljoint ones, driveshaft ones are all listed officially as being 'replace'. Any of these a bit 'what?, why?'?  Happy to buy them all , but interested to hear others' opinions on necessity. I have my doubts that any are actually true stretch bolts.

 

Got some bargain (I think?) genuine bits off ebay a week or two back in preparation, friction bit, pressure plate, release bearing and mounting, all for under a ton.

 

You can probably tell from what I'm writing that I have no clue about this job.

Any how-to's anywhere?

 

Will change the oil while the box is out, wondered about diff seals too, as they weep a touch, but it looks complicated in the ETKA diagrams compared to what I've done on mk2 Golf before so I might give those a miss.

 

The official instructions mention disconnecting the exhaust which seems odd, maybe just so the engine can be raised/lowered a bit without stressing it?

 

Please help a clutch noob!

 

 

 

 

 

[SkUG]

The guys who did mine (in the car park) had a handy hoist that mounted on the wings - not much help re:bolts etc but I was 300 miles away from all my tools

[Breezy_Pete]

Thanks fella. Was just thinking about that aspect this morning. Might rig up a sturdy 'two-b-four' based thing to support engine and lower the box from.

Just gonna order a bunch of bolts this morning.

Having just driven it, there's no obvious urgency for this mission, happily.

[TMB]

Have you got a clutch alignment tool to align the friction disc? I used to do them by eye but much easier with a tool.

[Breezy_Pete]

Not yet Lee, might have to make one if I can figure out the dimensions.

[TMB]

OK. Best thing to make one with is an old input shaft but not easy to come by.

[TMB]

Universal ones are pretty cheap

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-17pc-Clutch-Alignment-Tool-Kit-Hand-Bearing-Transmission-Tool-/391227136321?hash=item5b16f45941:g:w80AAOSwPcVVwGZC

[Breezy_Pete]

OK. Best thing to make one with is an old input shaft but not easy to come by.

 

That's the sticky-outy bit in the middle of the first photo here?

[TMB]

Aye that's the one.

[Breezy_Pete]

I should have a few days immediately after the Christmas stuff so I can probably just wait until then, take the box off, measure up and make something.  Sorely tempted by the bargain price of that universal kit though...

Edited 10 December, 2016 by Wino

[bigjohn]

I should have a few days immediately after the Christmas stuff so I can probably just wait until then, take the box off, measure up and make something.  Sorely tempted by the bargain price of that universal kit though...

 

Universal kit looks really useful - back in the day I used to do it by eye with a wooden dowel to help -  probably harder on a FWD car though

 

The easiest clutch I ever changed was a 1977 Datsun 100A. You removed a front wheel to gain access to some bolts that allowed you to remove motion shafts - then you remove a bellhousing access panel that allowed you to undue the cover plate "cartridge" complete with friction plate. Did a clutch change in 45mins -  including the not done this before factor.  For it's day an amazing car- did 55mpg on a run - shame about the rust!

Edited 10 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[TMB]

I remember on some Vauxhalls (Astras etc) that you could remove the clutch whilst the gearbox was still attached to the engine. There was a cover you removed at the bottom of the gearbox and then you fitted these 3 little metal clamps to the pressure plate. They had an input shaft that you could pull out of the end of the gearbox enough to clear the clutch disc after removing a cover and a circlip. You then just unbolted the pressure plate and the friction disc could be dropped out. Did a few of those.

Edited 10 December, 2016 by TMB

[sepulchrave]

I've still got two of the three metal clips for holding the pressure plate, god knows what happened to the third.

[felicia16v]

Using an old input shaft won't work on most fwd cars any more due to them not having a spigot bearing just buy the universal kit or do it by eye with a good fitting socket and extension bar.

[TMB]

Using an old input shaft won't work on most fwd cars any more due to them not having a spigot bearing just buy the universal kit or do it by eye with a good fitting socket and extension bar.

 

Ah, very good point. I forgot about that.

[Breezy_Pete]

It occurred to me sometime late last night that with new friction disc and pressure plate already on hand, I already have everything needed to make a tool?

 

Make tool that puts red circle slap bang in the middle of blue circle, yeah?

 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino

[felicia16v]

yes you can get one that expands out on the pressure plate side to center it, or a decent bit of nylon and 10 mins with a lathe and your sorted, don't forget the large hole will get smaller as the pressure plate is tightned up tho lol so you need to measure it with the fingers pushed level somehow, if I remember tomorrow I'll measure the hole in the crank spigot as if your making something it will be easier to line it all up that way.

[Breezy_Pete]

yes you can get one that expands out on the pressure plate side to center it, or a decent bit of nylon and 10 mins with a lathe and your sorted, don't forget the large hole will get smaller as the pressure plate is tightned up tho lol so you need to measure it with the fingers pushed level somehow, if I remember tomorrow I'll measure the hole in the crank spigot as if your making something it will be easier to line it all up that way.

Ah, thanks, I'm starting to understand now.  I didn't think the pictures of the official centring tool could quite look like what I was thinking of making per post #16, so I had a feeling I was misunderstanding something. So it's really crank-to-friction disc centring that I want to be doing, once that's right, friction disc to pressure plate has to be right.

 

Measurement of the crank spigot would be awesome if it's not too much trouble, but I guess once I have ours in bits I can do that myself. Being able to make the tool ahead of time would be nice though.

[octyal]

Are you doing it on a ramp or on the floor? If you are using the floor, then make sure you have a couple of trolley jacks to hand, or even an engine hoist. Manhandling a FWD gearbox back in whilst bent over a partially raised car is back breaking - been there too many times - easier on a lift as you can use a transmission jack to take the weight.

 

When you get the box back in, make sure it goes all the way up to the block, then get two bolts in the top and nipped up to hold it - DO NOT let the gearbox hang on the input shaft or it will damage the centre plate (friction disc) leading to a potential failure.

 

Grease the splines with a very small amount of molybdenum grease - DO NOT use copper grease on any clutch part, it's abrasive - then wipe it off with a cloth.

 

As for the bolts, basically, if it has a torque value associated with it, then it should be replaced, as once it has been torqued then the threads will have stretched, so it may either break, or not torque correctly the second time. However, if it is only a single torque stage, then you will probably get away with re use, just be careful with them - if it was a dealer doing the job, then they would replace all of them. You may not need to disturb the hub end of the driveshafts, and may just be able to undo the gearbox end and pull them out of the way by releasing the track rod ands and the ball joints instead.

 

Diff seals should be replaced really, as they will probably be disturbed removing the shafts, same as the gearbox oil, that will need topping up afterwards anyway.

 

With the mileage on the car, I would be considering the rear crank seal as well while the box is off.

 

Get a new clutch fork and pivot for the gearbox as well. they are prone to wear, especially after 150k miles, and lightly grease any contact surfaces with molybdenum grease too.

 

Before you remove the clutch from the flywheel, put a dab of tipp ex or paint on the plate, so you know which way round it goes (just in case the new one isn't marked, it should be if genuine, possibly with getriebeseite - German for gearbox side)

 

A week or so before you do the job (or longer if time permits) get underneath and have a look around the gearbox/engine bay etc for any fixings that may require a new tool to be purchased/borrowed, nothing worse than getting 3/4 of the way through a big job only to find you need a 5.5mm double star bit to undo a critical bolt.

 

If I think of anything else, I will add it after, but that should cover the often overlooked bits n pieces

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Wow, that's awesomely helpful, thanks octyal.

 

I'll be doing it on the ground, but have plenty of trolley jacks.  I could do it indoors at work where there's an engine hoist (which I can't reasonably 'borrow' to take home unfortunately), if lifting the box is way ahead of dropping it out in terms of ease?

 

I've watched a youtube video of 'BMACVAG' or some such fella wrestling (painfully it seems, with a friend too) with extracting a Polo box downwards and out, so not massively keen on that avenue. It was a different engine though, so may have been worse than what I'll experience with the 3-potter?

 

Cheers for all the help peeps, really appreciated.

Edited 13 December, 2016 by Wino

[octyal]

No problem. It will be designed to drop out of the bottom, rather than lift out of the top. Downside is that there may be a sub frame or cross member that needs to be removed to do so.

Doing it on the drive, I would definitely suggest trying to get hold of a hoist of some sort, will make it easier to position the box when refitting to the engine, it's not easy trying to hold the box on the jack (remember they don't have a flat bottom on the gearbox either), locate the splines, and slide the box onto the engine - hence the hoist. Lift the box to the right height, make sit easier to align the box.

[Breezy_Pete]

:thumbup: Thanks again; doing it at work looks like the best option for a few reasons.

[octyal]

:thumbup: Thanks again; doing it at work looks like the best option for a few reasons.

 

Not a problem - been there so many times struggling with gearboxes on the drive, worst one was my Discovery....

[Breezy_Pete]

...Get a new clutch fork and pivot for the gearbox as well. they are prone to wear, especially after 150k miles, and lightly grease any contact surfaces with molybdenum grease too...

 

 

Do you mean items 10 & 12 here: Clutch lever and ball stud?

Anyone have (just) a clutch lever to look at a part number? Seems to include bearing etc when bought as item 10 there, and I already have that.

The shopping list is getting a bit alarming :sweat: :

 

Gearbox mount bolts 6Q0199767 , 2

Gearbox mount brkt bolts N 10703701 , 2

Driveshaft bolts N 91108201 , 12

Diff seals 02T409189C & 02M301189B

Crank rear seal 021103051C

Wishbone BJ bolts 3-off N 10127707

ARB link lower nut N 10261310

Gear oil 2-off G060726A2

Spline grease G000100

Plus the items 10 & 12 bits above (I guess)

 

Edited 13 December, 2016 by Wino

[Breezy_Pete]

Other than clutch slip (sometimes, on abrupt footdowns immediately after changing up) there doesn't seem to be anything at all wrong with the system, so I am inclined to keep it minimal.