DSG Disappointment

[DeeDar]

Hi,

 

I'm sure the following comment will upset or annoy a lot of people on this forum;

but here goes:

 

The DSG gearbox is not worth rave reviews it gets, a good 'traditional' automatic is as good.

 

My last car was a Mercedes with a 7 speed tip-tronic gearbox which was, in my opinion, far better than the 2.0 Superb DSG I have at present.

 

I prefer automatics and would have another DSG its just, for me at least, a standard automatic is as good if not better.

 

Your comments!

[Ootohere]

Each to their own.

 It is as well there are choices and if you chose wrong then best be sure next time.

 

Personally i very much like the 6 speed Wet or 7 speed dry and the 7 speed wets now are crackers.

[philbes]

Perhaps if you explain why you hold that view it will get some responses.

[cnc]

I agree with philbes above, a little more info would be advisable. Vehicle model i.e. petrol/diesel, 140/170 TDI, 1.8/2.0/3.6 petrol, mileage, service history etc.

 

All I can say is I had a 2009 DSG 6 speed wet and it was pretty good, but later on my wife had a 2014 Octavia with the 7 speed dry and that was fantastic, way better than my earlier 6 speed. The newer the model the better they get, plus those that haven't had the DSG oil and filter changed can get a little rough. Every time I had mine serviced I always asked for a factory reset which smoothed it out. 

After the Octavia my wife had a BMW auto, so a 'traditional' auto as you call it, and that was a great gearbox - especially after it had warmed up, when it was cold it wasn't as smooth in the lower gears especially on a light throttle.

The early boxes could also have trouble with the mechatronics units which was fairly costly.

[TheRobinK]

I've driven them all (transmission types).

 

When i lived in the city - I preferred the "normal" automatic i had in a couple of BMW's. Manuals could be tedious in crappy traffic and the DSG I used was a bit jerky at slow bad traffic/jam speeds/parking etc. It was really nasty allied to a start/stop system on a diesel (2013 Passat - urgghhh). 

 

Now living in the countryside, I prefer manual or DSG. Me and the DSG are super smooth on more "open road" driving. The DSG is seriously quick and smooth on changes.

 

No matter where I am, CVT automatics make me want to neuter myself and then blow my brains out. Reason being, if i ever bought one I would consider myself too **** house crazy to breed.

 

In fairness to any CVT owner - the ones i have used were in a Nissan Micra and a Honda Jazz - both of which made me want to explore end of life options anyways (thanks for lending your cars Mum while my BMW's were having issues...)!).

 

Out of boredom - I tried an ASG Volkswagen Up before getting my wife a manual one (which is a load of fun - we love the car). That ASG though is another auto box to be avoided at all costs. A teen lad with a naughty mag jerks less than one of those.... 

[Robjon]

No matter where I am, CVT automatics make me want to neuter myself and then blow my brains out. Reason being, if i ever bought one I would consider myself too **** house crazy to breed.

 

I almost had a coffee/keyboard moment there! 

 

I love my DSG but I've never driven a CVT.  Could I ask what it is about CVT that makes you dislike it so much?  Thanks.

[old newbie2]

I agree with philbes above, a little more info would be advisable. Vehicle model i.e. petrol/diesel, 140/170 TDI, 1.8/2.0/3.6 petrol, mileage, service history et

 

All I can say is I had a 2009 DSG 6 speed wet and it was pretty good, but later on my wife had a 2014 Octavia with the 7 speed dry and that was fantastic, way better than my earlier 6 speed. The newer the model the better they get, plus those that haven't had the DSG oil and filter changed can get a little rough. Every time I had mine serviced I always asked for a factory reset which smoothed it out. 

After the Octavia my wife had a BMW auto, so a 'traditional' auto as you call it, and that was a great gearbox - especially after it had warmed up, when it was cold it wasn't as smooth in the lower gears especially on a light throttle.

The early boxes could also have trouble with the mechatronics units which was fairly costly.

We have 3 DSG's, a '10. a '12 & a '16. The '10 is pretty good, & all the better for a fluid / filter change even though it hadn't reached the 40k mile point. 

The '12 plate is working really well, very hard to fault & will get fluid & filter changed at the next service.

The golf is newest, changes are still smooth & shifts down just at the right moment, but why not, it has the latest tech & softwa re.

 

Modern, (& expensive) torque converter transmissions have their place too but VAG have done a good job in refining the twin-clutch concept, to the point (IMVHO) when the average customer neither

know or cares about the technology, just that their new car has but 2 pedals & is easy to drive.

 

Those of us that are enthusiastic about cars are really in a minority, for most drivers their car is just another domestic appliance............

 

DC 

[williamshatnerspants]

I love the 6 spd (wet) DSG on the TDI. The only downside IMO are:

 

When crawling along at walking pace, there is a vibration as it 'rides the clutch'. Perhaps our clutch plates are wearing/worn....

A standard auto would be better in this situation.

 

Parking, reversing up hills. You have to remember to use the handbrake like you'd do in a manual. This only happens on very steep streets when reversing, so not a big deal. Yes we have hill hold, and no it doesn't work in this situation.

 

Questionable reliability. A standard auto would let me sleep easier. Touch wood, no issues after 90k miles.

 

Overall, its a much nicer box than any auto I have driven. 

[Outrunner]

Having moved today from a 2009 BMW E60 520D 177 6 speed auto to a 2013 Superb Elegance 2.0 TDi 140 6 speed DSG, I personally find the DSG box a far smoother changing box, I just don't notice the changes. 

Edited 15 January, 2017 by Outrunner

[BoxerBoy]

I almost had a coffee/keyboard moment there! 

 

I love my DSG but I've never driven a CVT.  Could I ask what it is about CVT that makes you dislike it so much?  Thanks.

I've driven a few CVT hire cars and they don't come close to a normal auto or DSG. They make a lot of noise, but the revs don't reflect the speed. Some have a "fake it" arrangement so that the chain or belt system steps up to simulate gears rather than be seamless as per design. They're ****e.

The DSG instant - imperceptible - gear changes are brilliant. Top end slush boxes are good too, but I love both our 6 speed and 7 speed units. Take a spirited drive using paddle shifts to find out what they can really do.

[Ootohere]

The Subaru Lineartronic (CVT) is rather good IMO, and i really liked my iQ 1.0 Multidrive (CVT) was great (As the Donald says).

Loved my Punto Speedgear (CVT) and even my Volvo 343 CVT.

Favourite of all were my Subaru Justy CVT's. 

All are or were very good in the Snow.

Had or driven just about every Automatic, Semi Automatic, Servo Clutch & CVT available in the UK over the past 40 years and some from before that.

 

Stinkers are Smarts & UP!MiiCitigo's  Looking forward to trying a Suzuki Ignis with a AGS soon.

Edited 15 January, 2017 by Offski

[TheRobinK]

I almost had a coffee/keyboard moment there! 

 

I love my DSG but I've never driven a CVT.  Could I ask what it is about CVT that makes you dislike it so much?  Thanks.

 

Pretty much what BoxerBoy said would be a good summary  - "They make a lot of noise, but the revs don't reflect the speed." ​I found this very disconcerting - I had to keep fighting the urge to ease off the throttle.  

 

My wife, who is no petrol-head, said this: "It's a hairdressers car. If you didn't get enough of hairdryers at work - you can have one to drive home!"

 

​On a more reasonable note, I think it fair to say that their advantage is the reason I don't like them - because of the constantly variable drum and band, the engine pitch and rpm stay pretty high and constant. That's good for economy and keeping the engine at an optimal band, but I just hated the experience from the drivers seat.

[Ootohere]

Funnily with the good CVT's you just get up to speed and do ease off the throttle and get good economy and use the choices you have with the gear stick for decelerating and you keep up speed where required and use very little braking.

[old newbie2]

The Subaru Lineartronic (CVT) is rather good IMO, and i really liked my iQ 1.0 Multidrive (CVT) was great (As the Donald says).

Loved my Punto Speedgear (CVT) and even my Volvo 343 CVT.

Favourite of all were my Subaru Justy CVT's. 

All are or were very good in the Snow.

Had or driven just about every Automatic, Semi Automatic, Servo Clutch & CVT available in the UK over the past 40 years and some from before that.

 

Stinkers are Smarts & UP!MiiCitigo's  Looking forward to trying a Suzuki Ignis with a AGS soon.

Let me add to your list:-

 

CVTs.

 

Daf 55 Marathon, OK, but better with a little tweaking & a set of after-market belts.

Ford Fiesta, Yuk!

2012 Mazda Demio, a Japanese import rental in Cyprus. (A hotbed for Japanese oddities!) Nice little car but I can see why the CVT was restricted to Japanese mome market cars.

 

Conventional less than perfect Automatics.

 

Borg-Warner 45 4-speed in a Chrysler Sunbeam.

'89 Ford Escort 3-speed. (Mazda transaxle?) Seriously jerky shifting, even when locking-up the torque-converter in 3rd. 

Mk.3 Ford Cortina 2.0litre 3-speed, slow & thirsty.

 

Automated Manuals.

 

'08 Citroen Grand Picasso. A total joke, very slow shifting at low speed, dangerous when inserting into traffic.

Ford Fusion, very clunky.

 

+ bunch of low budget semi-auto conversions for disabled drivers, only experienced on closed tracks at the Mobility Roadshows in the '80's & '90's.

 

Disabled drivers get a much better of choice of decent automatic cars & vans these days.  

 

 

DC

[Ootohere]

My biggest financial disaster was buying from a Disabled Driver a 51 Plate Ex Ford Demonstrator Transit MWB Semi High Roof TD Durashift.

The Ford Dealer sold her their Demonstrator and she had it converted with Windows & Hand Controls then spent £1000's getting it diagnosed and still it was crap.

(it was the Hand Controls messing up the rear brake light, & ALSO the Fundamental Design & Manufacturing of the Borg Warner Actuator.)

 

So it turned out only years later that Ford had brought back in the Demonstrators and scrapped them and this one slipped through the net as had others.

The new Actuator cost me £1,800 and a lots of extra from the diagnosis and fitting and still i had to change gear using the dash buttons.

I sold it 'In need of repair', the new buyer was delighted as he bought a new gearbox still in the crate for £850 & drove it for several years after i had cut my losses.

FORD are as bad as VW in the 3 Monkeys, See, Hear & Say no Evil, admit nothing and it never happened.

[numskull]

I love the 6 spd (wet) DSG on the TDI. The only downside IMO are:

 

When crawling along at walking pace, there is a vibration as it 'rides the clutch'. Perhaps our clutch plates are wearing/worn....

A standard auto would be better in this situation.

 

Parking, reversing up hills. You have to remember to use the handbrake like you'd do in a manual. This only happens on very steep streets when reversing, so not a big deal. Yes we have hill hold, and no it doesn't work in this situation.

 

Questionable reliability. A standard auto would let me sleep easier. Touch wood, no issues after 90k miles.

 

Overall, its a much nicer box than any auto I have driven.

HHC doesn't work on reversing up a hill, or do you mean the operation isn't as good as using the handbrake? On our manual, it's fantastic and works perfectly reversing up my mates steep drive?

[Phil-E]

DSG was my first automatic car (1.9 6 speed Octavia).

I loved it and would have another without question... But...

Now I have a traditional torque converter auto I now see the DSGs shortfalls.

Setting off is one area I always struggled with- too much throttle and the clutch engagement was very sudden.

Reversing up a slope was impossible!

Odd gear changes (5 to 3 for example) always results in a noticeable pause.

All of these are not present with a torque converter.

Obviously the DSG ist more efficient especially around town.

[old newbie2]

DSG was my first automatic car (1.9 6 speed Octavia).

I loved it and would have another without question... But...

Now I have a traditional torque converter auto I now see the DSGs shortfalls.

Setting off is one area I always struggled with- too much throttle and the clutch engagement was very sudden.

Reversing up a slope was impossible!

Odd gear changes (5 to 3 for example) always results in a noticeable pause.

All of these are not present with a torque converter.

Obviously the DSG ist more efficient especially around town.

Maybe there have been improvements in the last few years, but none of the 4 DSG's that we've owned (& still own 3 of them...) have had these problems.

I've been out in traffic this afternoon in the Golf, & setting off was whatever I wanted it to be, (gentle, brisk, rapid), but always as smooth as any conventional auto but tighter, without the looseness of a torque converter.

 

It's quite possible that a 2.0 TSi (flatter torque & power curves) is better suited to a DSG than a 1.9 diesel, the only example I've experienced was a Golf diesel & that wasn't brilliant t odrive.

 

It's a sequential gearbox so block changing 2 or 3 gears isn't possible, but flicking up or down with the paddles is probably quicker than pumping a clutch & waggling a gearstick......  

 

DC

[chimaera]

Odd gear changes (5 to 3 for example) always results in a noticeable pause.

The way DSG works is that it is essentially two gearboxes that the controller switches between for gear changes. One side has the odd gears (1, 3, 5) and the other side has the even ones (2, 4, 6). So if you're in second and changing to third, it'll preselect third on the odd side then switch over to it. It uses a bunch of clever logic to determine if you're likely to be changing up or down and preselects the next gear well in advance so the shift is pretty much instant.

 

On a double shift, such as from 5 to 3, it has to switch to another gear on the same side so it's going to take a bit of time for it to organise the gear shift and execute it, compared to a shift from odd to even.

 

Any DSG box, no matter how well engineered it is, is going to have this issue.

[Ootohere]

But then a DQ 200 7 speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG fitted to a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132 /136 KW Twincharger does it without issue, you should try one.

Dropping 2 gears buy shifting or a double kick down is not an issue & there is no delay.

Even Thomas can do it...

Edited 16 January, 2017 by Offski

[Tall-Pete]

Hmm...better. By what metric?

A torque converter automatic should always be silky smooth.

The 7G tronic was actually what got me driving an auto. Is the DSG as good....Probably not quite, the 7G mechtronic unit definitely delivers a faster shift. But by the time you consider vehicle cost it us close enough for me. I ended up cross shopping a e-class and superb. No prizes for guessing which I bought.

I can confirm that the 2.0TSI and a 6speed dsg are a great pair. The only limit on a fast smooth take off are the tyres! (Provided you wait the 1.5seconds after putting it on drive for the clutches to take up.)

What amuses me is everyone dislikes CVT yet seems happy to have an ever increasing number of gears. Hence also complexity and weight. Following the current trend we are going to have near CVT auto boxes any way... 10/11 or more gears anyone?

[cnc]

10/11 or more gears anyone?

Ford already do a 10 speed auto in the US.

[Ootohere]

VW Group were spinning about theirs when playing top trumps, 10 speed DSG,  we are wonderful, and also being the No1 Biggest Car Manufacturer in the world.

Then they were revealed as lying cheating deceivers.

 

The VW Group are well deserved of a reputation not for reliability or VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK but if you have failures and require to do 'World Wide Recalls' and extend Warranties 

a Service Campaign will do for Europe because those countries are not in The World and Government Agencies & Courts believe you.

 

So forget lemons, just move on, there was no Fundamental Design, Manufacturing or Component Choice or Supplier & QC issues.

Go 7 speed Wet and save announcing 10 speed for next time you need Emissions Cheating and the likes off the top ten on Google.

 

VW Group current issue again is the investigation on Devices controlling gearboxes not just for the benefit of Driver / Owners getting good economy 

but 'Active' during EU Testing or even US Smog testing.

Edited 17 January, 2017 by Offski

[lichfielddriver]

never driven a DSG yet wet or dry but my best auto was...

 

[williamshatnerspants]

never driven a DSG yet wet or dry but my best auto was...

 

mmmmmm P5. My Dad was a Rover fan, I loved the P5 Coupe, and our P6/P6B