Felicia 1.4-16v engine transplant

[RobinSLXi]

yes that's true ken, but using the dizzy as a trigger doesn't tell the ecu which cylinder is at TDC... all you would get is a 'pulse' from the hall effect switch every 1/ 2 turn of the engine and nothing that relates it to which cylinder is at TDC

That instantly makes me think: pair of sensors and wheel(s) on the distributor drive for a 2-bit coding system, but then I admit my mind lives far more in the domain of electronics and software than 'real' engineering...

I'm guessing you can't use a Hall sensor on the VW flywheel, since that would be far too generous of them given that you've already got a hole in the gearbox for mounting one.

Out of interest, I've just looked up the K3 and it seems that too supports the option of a distributor signal instead of a crank sensor. I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying following discussions like this - I'd never have imagined before that an ECU was basically just a simple state machine full of lookup tables, now if I had the time I'd almost consider making my own just for the hell of it

[KenONeill]

yes that's true ken, but using the dizzy as a trigger doesn't tell the ecu which cylinder is at TDC... all you would get is a 'pulse' from the hall effect switch every 1/ 2 turn of the engine and nothing that relates it to which cylinder is at TDC

FAIL!! A 4-cylinder dissie has one input, and 4 outputs.

[djaychela]

But not of any use, that's the spark being sent different ways.

[TeflonTom]

I've just looked up the K3 and it seems that too supports the option of a distributor signal instead of a crank sensor.

yes that's right, you can use a hall effect switch in the diizzy if you are doing batch fired or semi-sequential injection and using a simply dizzy for ignition, but to use a coilpack or fully sequential injection/ignition you need a crank sensor too

FAIL!! A 4-cylinder dissie has one input, and 4 outputs.

yes but that's assuming you have a rotor arm which points the spark towards the correct cylinder.. the 1 in 4 out system works very well with just a hall effect switch in the dizzy

But not of any use, that's the spark being sent different ways.

yeah what he said ^^

Edited 16 November, 2010 by TeflonTom

[KenONeill]

Are we trying to solve different problems here? A dissie can send an 12v pulse one of 4 ways, and and you must be able to use that to fire a coilpack.

[djaychela]

It'd be an unreliable, inaccurate, backwards Heath-Robinson way of "solving" the problem, and I doubt it'd work with 12v anyway - there's usually enough of a gap between rotor arm and dizzy cap to stop 12v anyway, i'd think. It's a bad solution because of that and also because it's less accurate than taking timing from the crank (where there is no gear lash/inaccuracy to worry about).

[TeflonTom]

^^ i'm with darren on this, a ht dizzy wont work on 12v becuase there's not enough voltage for the spark to jump the gap.. i think the best solution is to retro fit a trigger disc on the aux belt pulley

[felicia16v]

^^ i'm with darren on this, a ht dizzy wont work on 12v becuase there's not enough voltage for the spark to jump the gap.. i think the best solution is to retro fit a trigger disc on the aux belt pulley

do you not already have a crank sensor on the 16v block. on ours it was on the rear main housing. didn't bloody work with the DTA ecu tho as they dont talk the same language so I made a trigger disk on the crank pully (i'll try and get a pic honest)

[TeflonTom]

yeah there was a crank trigger fiitted as standard on that engine, it uses a standard bosch 60-2 pattern with 85 BTDC reference, but it was busted on this engine, plus when you are using the skoda gearbox/adaptor plate it doesn't fit easily, i was too much of a cheapskate to fork out the £100 they wanted for a new one (the entire rear crank oil seal and housing and trigger ring is a complete assembly) so i just whacked an old skool oil seal housing one there from an aee lump..

i suppose the best option is to whip the gearbox out and modify the adaptor plate a little to allow the oe crank sensor to be used :wonder:

[felicia16v]

yup only took about 20 secs with the grinder course i didn;t know it wouldn't work with the DTA at the time.

I made a trigger wheel on the front pully and made a bracket from the sump bolts to hold the sensor

[TeflonTom]

well i was planning on fiitting a lightened flywheel and an uprated clutch at some later point, so i guess that is the ideal time to re-fit the crank sensor..

although the other route i'm looking at is using motorcycle carbs, i suppose there is no benefit iin using wasted spark/independent coils in that setup which means there is no 'problem' to solve..

as a matter of interest do any of you gentlemen known where i can get some decent fast road cams for the afh head, or even possiibly a re-grind of the standard units.. the prices i've seen bandied around seem to be upwards of £600 from catcams or schrick.. i'm not after something with a radical profile that will make it idle rough, just want something with a bit more duration.. although £600 is an utterly rediculous price for a few extra ponies.

[felicia16v]

well i was planning on fiitting a lightened flywheel and an uprated clutch at some later point, so i guess that is the ideal time to re-fit the crank sensor..

although the other route i'm looking at is using motorcycle carbs, i suppose there is no benefit iin using wasted spark/independent coils in that setup which means there is no 'problem' to solve

yea ideal time to do it mate lol, waste spark is so much better at high rpm as it gives much longer dwell time for the coils.

[StevenP]

Just read through some of this thread, brilliant! The engine that the Felicia should've always had

[TeflonTom]

sorry folks i've been very busy at work, but i'm starting to work on it again...

intake manifold flange 15mm thick in 6061 aluminium alloy plate, cut out in a matter of mere seconds on a waterjet cutting machine wikipedia - waterjet cutting

[TeflonTom]

quick trial fitting.. good times.

more on this thread later

[TeflonTom]

^^ i doubt if anybody can guess where this is leading? more on this thread later... must find soem batteries for my camera :wonder:

[TeflonTom]

starting to get a few bits together now, this is quite handy but i'm not too sure it will be of any use, i think the spout is too small

[djaychela]

Where'd you get the cutting done, Tom? I'm looking to get some steel or stainless flanges made up for exhaust for the 136 engine....

(and you're putting throttle bodies on, right?)

[TeflonTom]

Where'd you get the cutting done, Tom? I'm looking to get some steel or stainless flanges made up for exhaust for the 136 engine....

i have a couple of local contacts that will do them for me for beer tokens/mates rates, if you can send me either a drawing or a gasket or whatever i'll draw them onto autocad and get them done, or if you have a dxf file it would be ideal

(and you're putting throttle bodies on, right?)

no i'm going to custom fabricate a plenum-type manifold to take a 65mm vr6 throttle body and use the standard injector rail and map sensor, which puts the throttle over on the drivers side near the airbox.... i know this might sound drastic to anybody reading this, but it really isn't that difficult, plus i reckon my current 'pikey' twin air-box setup is robbing me of about 5bhp

[TeflonTom]

one thing i did forget to mention is just how bloody strong these skoda type 10S gearboxes are, it's just coming up to 5 months now, and 130 odd bhp wont even scare it, and believe me i've been trying to bust it!! and that's the original 80k mile factory unit too!!

there will be a few updates/mods/changes made in the coming months

1. first off baffled sump and a few oil breather mofications will be done baffled sump thread details of the sump baffles can be found in the linked thread

2 de-cat and exhaust mods to be done

3 intake manifold/throttle body/induction pipe work to be completely re-worked..

4 possibly a ported cylinder head too if i can muster the patienece!

aiming for 140bhp this year

Edited 31 December, 2010 by TeflonTom

[RobinSLXi]

Ooh, breather cap at last! Does this one fit under the bonnet OK? Having just wiped a load of oil out of my inlet duct and throttle body yet again I'd be very keen to get my hands on one if it does. Mayo on the filler cap, fair enough. Mayo on the throttle body seal,

I had a feeling it might be a custom manifold. If you weren't upgrading the throttle body as well, though, wouldn't it be simpler to just replace the pipework and Polo airbox with some Max Power-style fat silicon hose? After all, that alone would be worth at least eleventy BHP if it was brightly coloured enough

[TeflonTom]

yeah red is the fastest colour

i need to do some number crunching with various formulae first to work out the ideal length/bore size for the runners and plenum, also going up from the 60mm throttle on the 16v to the 65mm unit from a vr6 engine should help it breathe more at higher rpm, the main design consideration with these is that it needs to be mounted horizontal with a horizontal cable pull, as apposed to mounted vertically with a horzontal cable pull which it currently has. this should work out better because i won't need to put a 90 degree elbow on the end of the induction pipework, also with it on the drivers side the pipework is minimal and will only need 1 bend (approx 40 degrees) into the standard felicia airbox.... the rule of thumb goes that you loose roughly 5% of flow capacity for every 90 degree bend you have.... at the same time i will also open out the air feed hole in the front bulkhead to a sensible size

Edited 31 December, 2010 by TeflonTom

[RobinSLXi]

Cunning, sounds like that should solve most of the remaining 'problems' in one swoop. Although the number crunching does sound a bit too much like work to me (albeit not literally - fluid dynamics and have never gotten on too well...) - I've been enjoying not being sat in front of MATLAB all week . I'd definitely agree too on enlarging the intake (and the airbox feed pipe) if you're looking to minimise losses - my back-of-an-envelope calculation may well have been wrong but it suggested an 'ideal' 5000rpm would require pulling air up the stock pipe at ~120mph. Not much ram-air effect there!

Cheers for the info on that breather too - now I just need to decide whether to annoy the local VW dealer or see if the Skoda parts dept. are nice enough to get me one from TPS...

[TeflonTom]

the one piece of wisdom nobody has questioned me on is using the standard airbox.. not really too sure what all the rally-boys opinions are on them but personally ii can fiind absoolutely no flaws or potential problems with the standard air filter and box, for now i will stick with it.. and as for ram air effects, sadly they are an urban myth, there's absolutely no benefit in fitting any kind of scoop to induce ram-air or a car, i've seen it proven with a track car running in a wind tunnel, you need to travel at over 175mph before you see any gain from it

[felicia16v]

nothing wrong with the stock airbox at all mate, it flows enough air for a 1.9TDI engine in a felly so you are not going to tax it much with a 1.4.

but I think you may lose a load of torque by ditching the std inlet, ram air lol would be more use sticking a pipe from my arse to the throttle body..

HAPPY NEW YEAR FOLKS in case you haddn't noticed