Fabia VRS Starter Motor - The Wire of Death

[mollusc]

Hello there! I'm a new boy with a chipped 54 plate Fabia VRS that must be one of the most fun cars I've ever owned!

Finally, after a year of no grease-action, I've opened the red toolbox and tried to tackle my VRS's recently developed non-starting problem. I've wrestled the starter motor nearly off (all bar the positive lead that doesn't fit past the plastic cover - grrrr) and can see THAT little broken wire poking out of the loom near the back of the solenoid.

Problem is... I can't see where it was meant to be attached to the solenoid. Maybe it's obvious if you know what the wire is for.... :confused:

I've checked the Haynes Manual, but the days of plentiful clear photos (like they are in my Mk2 Cortina one) are gone :(

If anyone can tell me where the wire goes - or has a photo of the setup with the wire in the right place - that would be a Godsend right now!

If not that, then some idea of what it does will help!

TIA.

[mollusc]

Aha!

The part I was looking at seemed to be a connector for a vacuum tube of some sort, but on further investigation was an 'ole for the wire... Problem solved.

I've taken some photos and hopefully will be able to post the fix that I did... Assuming when I put it together it works, of course!!!

Cheers,

[Dads-VRS]

seems to be quite a common occurance at the moment , that solenoid wire breaking

[DGW]

Let us know how you get on with the repair.

[Mouse]

I have had the wire of death too. Fixed by the competent AA man. Probably chaffed

because of the poor design of the battery covery. Much easier to rag up to get access

components than to actually take off. Full main dealer service history here. Looking

forward to the pics.

[KTP]

happened to mine to, got fixed by skoda assist in the way of the RAC. think the guy lengthened the wire when sorting it.

[mollusc]

Update - All worked fine, but my wife killed the camera!!! I don't know - fix one thing...

Back to General Custard... The wire was broken off right as it joined that weird liddle biddy rubber grommet bit. Actually, I spent ages trying to get the darned plastic bit off the solenoid until I noticed the latching mechanism - doh!

When I pulled it off - and after I mopped up the knuckle blood - I found a small cylindrical shaped protrusion from the end NOT connected to the solenoid. Inside it was a grommet with an approx 1mm hole in it. I carefully removed the grommet, and underneath was a kind-of metal sheath about 7mm across with a solder terminal in the centre of it. There were little broken bits of copper sticking out of the solder - so I was pretty sure that's where the wire had come from.

To mend it I carefully sawed off (!) the excess plastic from the cylindrical protrusion: not enough so that the rubber grommet wouldn't stay in, but enough so that my soldering iron would reach the little tag inside without melting the case. I recall it it was about 3mm. It looks as though it would be possible to remove the metalwork from the housing, but I couldn't find how to do this and I decided life is too short!

I found a fairly slim and FLEXIBLE piece of wire (it needs to go through the grommet) about 15cm in length, and soldered the end to the place where the original wire had been. It was a bit fiddly even with less material round the edge, because I had a choice of either soldering iron or seeing what was going on, but not both. I won't be submitting the results to the "International Foundation for Neat Soldering", but it stayed on, and after I slid the grommet down the wire and into place it all looked quite neat. I know this is obvious, but I recommend you don't attach the wire to the loom before you solder it, or you'll have nightmares about the underside of Fabias for ever more.

So, why did it break? My theory is... The original wire was bound to the loom very close to the point of entry to the solenoid connector - about 8cm in my case. The solenoid is attached very firmly to the engine, and the loom very firmly to the body.

With all those torques flying around, I bet the engine swings around the engine bay a bit under acceleration. This would cause the wire to be "waggled" exactly like you would do to break a piece of wire on purpose - pulling it backwards and forwards until the internal structure of the wire crystallises and it fractures.

Attaching the wire at the loom end was straightforward. Personally I don't use terminal block for permanent fixes and I'm not crazy about crimp terminals in outside environments either. I got a piece of heat-shrink sleeving, soldered the wires together, and covered the join in heat-shrink.

I left as much of the original wire as I could. Although it was all quite knackered and hard, cutting it off near the loom would be really bad if it snapped on the loom side again. I also taped a little more of it to the loom for the same reason.

I ended up leaving the whole 15cm length on the new wire. I taped round the end of the (shorter) solenoid connector and continued a few cm along the new wire to provide a little "strain relief". The new wire is more flexible than the old one by far, and as it is long enough now to form a semi-circular loop between the loom and the solenoid, the impact of the movement will be hugely reduced.

Conclusion? Perhaps some of my ideas were a bit anal and others (sawing) might seem barbaric, but the overall plan was to maximise robustness and reliability - to avoid my wife being stranded somewhere on a rainy night - whilst not getting to bogged down with cosmetic detail.

I hope this helps someone ). If you want any more specific help please do send me a message. I'm a Skoda beginner but I have some experience of wires

[mollusc]

....Have a couple of photos from my phone... but can't seem to get the upload bit to work. :(

I'll try from home later.

[Klippie]

The same thing happened to me a couple of months back I very nearly got stranded 30miles from home but luckily it just started, to me the wire looked to have been under stress and with the vibrations from the engine it was just a matter of time till it broke (very poor design). I had to remove the connector from the starter soleniod and solder in a new wire leaving a long loop to take up any movement between the loom and the starter.

[liambooth]

hi there my fabia currently has a starting issue some times it starts other times it doesnt but when it doesnt there is no noise what so ever from the starter motor. is it possiable that this could fix it. any help would be great.

[luke90_vrs]

Yes, sounds like you have the same problem. Mine was the same before the wire broke fully. Get it sorted before you get stranded

[devonutopia]

I had the same. Affected wire was crimped back together due to lack of room for soldering, but I was told it was a strong connection so unlikely to break at the crimp.

[liambooth]

Thanks for the help so far but can anyone give me proper direction as to the whereabouts of the wire as im struggling to find it. all help would be appreciated

[vindaloo]

Thanks for the help so far but can anyone give me proper direction as to the whereabouts of the wire as im struggling to find it. all help would be appreciated

Remove air pipe from slam panel to the airbox. Peering down past tghe side of the battery box (with a torch?) it's underneath the gearbox shifter mech.

(Select a gear or move the bellcrank or counterweight or whatever out of the way if need be.)

It's a single wire entering a connector on top of the starter. Wire leads from a minor loom running front->back behind the starter.

There is a guide to accessing it from the top, requires battery plus battery box removal.

[06vrsandy]

Repaired the same issue with my Fabia, thanks for the help of this thread.

 

It is a terrible design, not enough slack in the wire and wire not flexible enough

Some pictures to aid other people with the problem attached.

Initial symptoms of the issue are occasional non turning of the starter when you turn the key, jiggling the wire helps it start.

When I went to repair mine after it finally gave up it snapped right off when I went to pole it. The wire was in a terrible shape, the strands of the wire exposed, corroded and dirty.

Re-soldered with a new section of wire with a bit more slack on it.

 

thanks

[TransporterT4]

Repaired the same issue with my Fabia, thanks for the help of this thread.

 

It is a terrible design, not enough slack in the wire and wire not flexible enough

Some pictures to aid other people with the problem attached.

Initial symptoms of the issue are occasional non turning of the starter when you turn the key, jiggling the wire helps it start.

When I went to repair mine after it finally gave up it snapped right off when I went to pole it. The wire was in a terrible shape, the strands of the wire exposed, corroded and dirty.

Re-soldered with a new section of wire with a bit more slack on it.

 

thanks

Good pictures thanks.

[MattH]

My car decided it didn't want to start this evening while I was out getting dog food. Managed to bump start it in the end. Is this a likely cause for my non starting issue? Or would it not bump start of this was broken?

[Breezy_Pete]

Bump starting will not be affected, so yes, very likely to be the solenoid wire.

[MattH]

Cheers mate. I've had 5 years trouble free driving with my vRS. I can't be mad. Even if it turns out to need antthing else lol. 

[MattH]

I'm pleased to confirm this is my issue. Although it's somewhat different. My issue is that the wire has snapped inside the black plug. I've managed to "stuff" the wire back into where it's meant to go for now, until I can get it to the garage tomorrow. It seems to be working. Not sure how my mech will fix it as it could be tricky to solder. 

[vindaloo]

2 hours ago, MattH said:

I'm pleased to confirm this is my issue. Although it's somewhat different. My issue is that the wire has snapped inside the black plug. I've managed to "stuff" the wire back into where it's meant to go for now, until I can get it to the garage tomorrow. It seems to be working. Not sure how my mech will fix it as it could be tricky to solder. 

Plug will break down into component parts. Allowing the terminal to be freed. Can then be soldered to a repair wire, then crimped onto the original. Don't leave crimps hanging or it'll fail again. I.e. the crimp must be secured to to loom.

[superandy]

Not a difficult job to fix. £10 on an amazon special soldering iron, some wore stripped from an old hoover in the garage. 1hr all in (removing and replacing the battery housing etc. And has lasted 2 years +. Poor design to begin with. If doing DIY, add length when repairing.

[superandy]

Its been a while but finally at the end of my tether with the car, almost. After successfully replacing the clutch, whilst re installing the starter motor the male connector inside the starter motor solenoid snapped off, after 3 years of being crimped on. Removed he starter motor the 5mm worth of connector won't go back in so time for new starter motor and connector to the loom. All in all £73 for a new motor delivers same day and 30 minutes connecting all back up. Still, I've replaced the clutch, battery and starter, fluid and filter service it's cost under £300 and however way you look at it, I've saved hundreds doing it all myself. Go DIY if you can

[Xoij]

I had the same issue, luckily it broke with enough wire to solder some new wire in to extend it and then crimp it. Feels bad for anyone having this wire break inside the solenoid connection.

[Uncle_Buck___]

On 01/04/2012 at 22:21, vindaloo said:

Remove air pipe from slam panel to the airbox. Peering down past tghe side of the battery box (with a torch?) it's underneath the gearbox shifter mech.

(Select a gear or move the bellcrank or counterweight or whatever out of the way if need be.)

It's a single wire entering a connector on top of the starter. Wire leads from a minor loom running front->back behind the starter.

There is a guide to accessing it from the top, requires battery plus battery box removal.

Could you tell me where the guide is please 🙏