Superb oil

[Supurbia]

How do you work that out then?

Normal 5w-30 or 0w-30 fully synthetic is about £25 to £30 a bottle.

VAG 5w-30 VW507 longlife is about £35 a bottle.

Seems like £5-£10 per bottle to me. (and yes that is 5L vs 5L price from the same motor factors)

Halfords example:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_230739_langId_-1_categoryId_165581

That oil is a differing standard to the stuff used in fords own in house engine designs.

You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres, last quote I had for golden 500 oil was £50 at GSF and that was Fuchs oil, you keep on playing the VAG game, me I don't, cos I know what a sh1thouse firm it is, I used to work for them, and you can keep ringing the VAG bell all you like I use and have used GM oil for 50k on a 100k engine and it's still perfect, delude yourselves all you like, you are playing the game set up by VAG to confuse ppl, I'll comment no more as you all know you are right and I'm wrong, and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.

[Supurbia]

From an oil supplier:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/529/16120Motul50501points.pdf

An interesting thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=94811

Not to chastize you Cheeze, it says 0 or 5W as an oil choice, and as for the second link with the tech guff, aren't these the same ppl who have a PC and have to benchmark it every 3 hours just incase they got a millionth of a millisecond more speed because the PC was more idle than the last time they ran their golden FREEWARE benchmark software, I thank you for posting the links, because it doesn't really state only use 500 series oil, it states use 0 or 5W oil, which is what I've been trying to tell ppl all along.

[ap0gee1978]

You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres...and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.

So you've changed you're oil every 2k to save up the ninety quid over 50000 miles? Seriously, with approved oil (necessary or not) at 25 quid for 5 litres, why bother with anything else - and as I mentioned earlier, Ford require it to be used in their VAG-sourced engines, but not their in-house ones, which I notice you didn't have an answer for?

Like I said earlier, if you were that unconcerned about things, why not save yourself loads more each year by insuring third-party only? In all likelihood, you car won't get nicked or suffer excess-busting damage in the next twelve months after all. Your logic and self-righteousness beggar belief IMO...

[Tom_vRS]

Manufacturers have specifications for oils for their engines, and its a naive person who doesn't stick to their specification. There are several big oil manufacturers who make oil to all these specifications, so it doesn't force you to buy from VAG et al at all. I genuinely believe its not a money making scam, but correctly specified oils for engine durability.

As said above, the high shear conditions in the PD engine cylinder head are a special case, as is the durability requirements of the oil for variable servicing regimes. My Mazda has an oil that is friendly to its revelutionary nano-technology DPF (which at close to £20 a litre is pricey!). I'm certain that an off the shelf 5W30 won't grind the engine to a halt in my ownership, but why take the risk?

In reality, modern engines should run to 300k+ with ease. Even assuming a lower spec oil increased wear by double, how many people really put 150k+ on an engine in their ownership? Saying I've done even 100k on pikey oil without issues doesn't mean its up to the job.

[cheezemonkhai]

Not to chastize you Cheeze, it says 0 or 5W as an oil choice, and as for the second link with the tech guff, aren't these the same ppl who have a PC and have to benchmark it every 3 hours just incase they got a millionth of a millisecond more speed because the PC was more idle than the last time they ran their golden FREEWARE benchmark software, I thank you for posting the links, because it doesn't really state only use 500 series oil, it states use 0 or 5W oil, which is what I've been trying to tell ppl all along.

Yes probably correct and I wouldn't waste my time like they are. If they want to do that it's fine. I was just adding a couple of sources of debate where you can get varied views.

The thin oil is indeed critical, and it's likely the other oils come more into play with the longer life servicing, however the testing number is piece of mind.

You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres, last quote I had for golden 500 oil was £50 at GSF and that was Fuchs oil, you keep on playing the VAG game, me I don't, cos I know what a sh1thouse firm it is, I used to work for them, and you can keep ringing the VAG bell all you like I use and have used GM oil for 50k on a 100k engine and it's still perfect, delude yourselves all you like, you are playing the game set up by VAG to confuse ppl, I'll comment no more as you all know you are right and I'm wrong, and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.

You my dear sir, are being ripped off by your GSF branch as I can get 5L of millers long life VW507 for £35 or 4L of mobil 1 ESP for £35 and 4L of castrol VW507 for £32. from another factors and similar pricing from them. If I move away from long life VW approved oil, to fixed interval VW approved oils, then you can take about £10 off each of those prices.

Are you familiar with thin film wear reducing additives? If your GM oil has sufficient then you will be fine, if not you won't over time and you will end up with worn injectors and cam.

I don't say I'm right, you're wrong, I'm saying since we really don't know which oils provide enough protection to the PD cam areas then why take the chance for such a small amount of money every 10k miles (assuming you're not doing variable but fixed)?

Just driving at 70 as opposed to 62mph will cost far more than that in the same 10k miles.

As for the £90 of beer, WTF are you on about, my engine uses 4L of oil, that is £35 (average) and so you've saved £14, which you drank and enjoyed. Even if you apply full variable service and say 3 time that ( as you'd get 2.7 changes in 50k) you're still only drinking £42 of beer.

I'll also enjoy the money I saved by using the specified parts and got back through good will payments for using their servicing. You make your choices, I make mine and it probably all evens out in the end.

I'm really glad for you that you feel you're right and all that, and you're entitled to feel that way. People have differing opinions, but I'm in a position where I'm happy to pay for a bit of piece of mind. Sure it might only be an expensive tracer in the oil to show it's passed 507 testing, but it's worth it should you have engine issues in warranty.

As said above, the high shear conditions in the PD engine cylinder head are a special case, as is the durability requirements of the oil for variable servicing regimes. My Mazda has an oil that is friendly to its revelutionary nano-technology DPF (which at close to £20 a litre is pricey!). I'm certain that an off the shelf 5W30 won't grind the engine to a halt in my ownership, but why take the risk? .

To be fair some off the shelf oils will kill it and others will I'm sure be fine.

For the same reason VW moved to 5w from 0w oils for DPF equipped cars.

From my understanding of it the VW507 oil has to have a low ash content when it burns so that this doesn't block up the DPF. The fact they moved to 5w also means less should burn by getting past the pistons or up through the crankcase etc

Edited 25 November, 2009 by cheezemonkhai

[Supurbia]

Ok, to clear some things up, the £90 is the 3 oil changes that I've done since owning the car, Skoda want £60 for 5 litres of Jose Mourinho oil (smile) the altenatives I can't find for less than £50, as I pay roughtly around £20 for the oil thats a £30 a time saving times 3 = £90 give or take a quid, I also use GSF filters at a fraction of the cost of genuine ones, I don't see the point in paying for a name written on the side of a filter that will be out of sight anyway, anyone fancy starting a filter arguement as well, I can tell you they all get made in the same factory and depending on who they are going to depends on what gets written on them, otherwise Halfords etc would be liable for engine failures for supplying sub standard filters, so either it's the same filter or the filter is good enough for the oil to flow through. About the not answering the Ford oil question, I did answer it, I said......if the oil is so crucial why isn't it labelled the same for both Ford and VAG PD engines, if only 500 series oil is suitable, then that makes the Ford oil unsuitable doesn't it, because it doesn't say 507 on the bottle, of course it is suitable or Ford wouldn't sell it, perhaps I should go chat with the little bloke down the factory who stands in the corner making this grail oil, and ask him exactly what he does to make it reach that spec. As for engine wear, please do tell me of an engine that doesn't wear over time, I really want one, that way all I need to buy each time is a new body rather than a whole car, I've told the doubters mine is on 6 figures now and it sounds and runs perfectly, another user whose father is an engineer has also told you, how much more proof do you need.

[ap0gee1978]

...About the not answering the Ford oil question, I did answer it, I said...if the oil is so crucial why isn't it labelled the same for both Ford and VAG PD engines...

Err, because the part number or spec is set by the car manufacturer, not the part / product manufacturer. By way of proof, over the years I have got my new wiper blades from TPS, ordering them by part number. Until now, I've always got Bosch ones - but this time I got some Valeo ones. They're the same length, the driver's side one has a spoiler and the passenger side one is curved - they even came in the same box. It's just that VAG have switched from Bosch to Valeo for their Fabia wipers. Same for air filters: I've had two made by Mann and two made by Mahle, yet they had the same part number and came in the same VAG box.

In case my point hasn't sunk in yet, if I had a Galaxy with a fixed-servicing PD engine, and took it to a Ford dealer that got their oil from TPS, they would ask for some WSS M2C-917A. If I had a Sharan WITH THE SAME ENGINE, and took it to a VW dealer that got their oil from TPS, they would ask for some 505.01. AND YET, in both cases, TPS would send out some Quantum Platinum 5W-40. The difference in manufacturer spec is quite independent of what the actual product that meets that spec is!

And as for Berr0010's dad being a mechanic, my dad does IT and comms training for the government - doesn't stop him ringing me up when he wants to know what new mobile he should get! And I hope Berr0010's dad's customers are happy with him filling their sumps with non-compliant oil!

You're entitled to your own opinion of course, and I reckon ne'er the 'twain shall meet in this case. But I think you'll struggle to convince others on here that there's any big conspiracy...

[ap0gee1978]

PS: I've just spotted this thread, and reckon you're clearly never going to give up on your conspiracy theory...

http://briskoda.development.scalr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=162787

I've half a mind to close this thread, because it's going nowhere and on occasion you've been less than courteous with your replies to members who see things differently to you.

Or is it because I'm an organ of the evil VAG empire, out to silence the dissident?

[Supurbia]

PS: I've just spotted this thread, and reckon you're clearly never going to give up on your conspiracy theory...

http://briskoda.development.scalr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=162787

I've half a mind to close this thread, because it's going nowhere and on occasion you've been less than courteous with your replies to members who see things differently to you.

Or is it because I'm an organ of the evil VAG empire, out to silence the dissident?

Where's the smash head on wall icon when you need it, as you say we aren't going to agree on this, so I'll continue to save and others can continue to spend, you have too much faith in big business my friend, I'll leave you with this thought, a friend used to be the parts guy for a tri dealer, the dealer did Lada,Lotus and Alfa at the time, and I always remember him telling me how ppl could come in owning a Lotus needing a door handle or a mirror, that'll be say £65 sir, only thing was if you nipped into Wadham's and asked for the same part for a Maxi or an Allegro it was £20, and the only difference was that box it came in, one said Lotus, the other Austin, anyway if I have been less than courtious please forgive me, I'm a bit strung out right now due to my work situation, and the fact all I've tried to do is help ppl save money and it falls on deaf ears doesn't help. And you did it again with the Ford thing two names for the same thing, to service the same engine, a PD is a PD, there's no Ford PD, PD is a VAG engine full stop, please understand it's just branding, if I suggested Mobil would you shoot me down? if they can make oil for F1 I'm sure it'll be good enough for any car engine wouldn't you agree?

[ap0gee1978]

Err, I think you'll find that all Mk1 Galaxies with a TDI badge on the back have a VAG engine under the bonnet, as part of the platform-sharing deal with the Sharan and the Alhambra, as Ford didn't have a diesel that was up to powering something the size of the Galaxy!

As for the door handle thing, I have no issue with using alternative parts / products IF THEY WILL DO THE JOB AS WELL AS THE MANUFACTURER'S. For instance, I will gladly point people in the direction of TL774-D coolant, as a bit of research proves it's an old Audi designation for what VW call G12. The simple fact is, as your own door handle anecdote proves, you CAN get the right parts / products for less if you look about a bit, so why bother with something that MIGHT be right, but can't be proven to be? It's a big risk to take for just a few quid a month...

[cheezemonkhai]

Ok, to clear some things up, the £90 is the 3 oil changes that I've done since owning the car, Skoda want £60 for 5 litres of Jose Mourinho oil (smile) the altenatives I can't find for less than £50, as I pay roughtly around £20 for the oil thats a £30 a time saving times 3 = £90 give or take a quid,

Without being wanting to be rude, just because you're being ripped off for your VAG specific oils, it doesn't mean the rest of us are. Even Halfords own VW507 oil costs less than that for 5L at full retail and not on offer.

I also use GSF filters at a fraction of the cost of genuine ones, I don't see the point in paying for a name written on the side of a filter that will be out of sight anyway, anyone fancy starting a filter arguement as well, I can tell you they all get made in the same factory and depending on who they are going to depends on what gets written on them, otherwise Halfords etc would be liable for engine failures for supplying sub standard filters, so either it's the same filter or the filter is good enough for the oil to flow through.

Again, I have a trade account with a motor factors and their filters cost the same as the dealer ones. I paid less than £4 each for genuine oil filters for my car last time around.

They don't all get made in the same factory.

Mann Filter are made in Germany, Fram in serbia (IIRC) and there are many others.

There are at least 4 revisions of oil filter for the 2.0 TDI.

One made in France, another in Hungary, another in Germany and one in China. The last one is IMHO much cheaper and nastier quality and thankfully seems to have been replaced by the other parts.

Different filters have different qualities. For example if you look at some of the cheaper oil filters in tins, the pressure release valves weep unfiltered oil past them, or even just divert oil around the filter when things get slightly dirty. The filters material bloats and makes flowing oil much harder.

Sure the halfords ones and big brand ones might be fine and made well, but there is certainly some cr*p out there. Add to that the fact that the halfords filters are more expensive than the dealer ones, even on trade and there is no point going there.

About the not answering the Ford oil question, I did answer it, I said......if the oil is so crucial why isn't it labelled the same for both Ford and VAG PD engines, if only 500 series oil is suitable, then that makes the Ford oil unsuitable doesn't it, because it doesn't say 507 on the bottle, of course it is suitable or Ford wouldn't sell it, perhaps I should go chat with the little bloke down the factory who stands in the corner making this grail oil, and ask him exactly what he does to make it reach that spec.

The ford and VW oils will be made to the same spec and will no doubt both work to the service regime given by the manufacturers.

As I've said time and time again, the VW standard doesn't mean other oils are not suitable, it means these oils are tested to be suitable. I'm sure if you ran the ford PD oil in any PD engine of that generation and stuck to the ford servicing schedule it would be fine.

The ford/VW standard are probably exactly the same, the oil made in the same place, but ford won't have a VW standard in their books so named it something themselves.

If I needed VW505.1 oil and the ford version was cheaper, then I'd buy the ford version knowing it's going to be just fine.

As for engine wear, please do tell me of an engine that doesn't wear over time, I really want one, that way all I need to buy each time is a new body rather than a whole car, I've told the doubters mine is on 6 figures now and it sounds and runs perfectly, another user whose father is an engineer has also told you, how much more proof do you need.

I never said an engine doesn't wear, I said you can get excessive cam wear.

Your car has done 100k, but only 50k of that is on the unapproved oil. Keep running it and let us know how things are after 100k on the cheaper oil.

It isn't a case of proof others are not good enough.

It is however a case that approved oil that costs not much more (0.1p per mile assuming you use the more expensive VW507 and do fixed servicing intervals anyway) give you a piece of mind that the oils have been tested under the conditions found in PD engines and found to protect the engine.

As with genuine filters that cost less than halfords ones, it's a case of it saves issues come a dealer taking the car in come a warranty claim of similar. You don't have to have the argument of whether the part is good enough or not.

Simples

Edited 26 November, 2009 by cheezemonkhai

[Supurbia]

Without being wanting to be rude, just because you're being ripped off for your VAG specific oils, it doesn't mean the rest of us are. Even Halfords own VW507 oil costs less than that for 5L at full retail and not on offer.

Again, I have a trade account with a motor factors and their filters cost the same as the dealer ones. I paid less than £4 each for genuine oil filters for my car last time around.

They don't all get made in the same factory.

Mann Filter are made in Germany, Fram in serbia (IIRC) and there are many others.

There are at least 4 revisions of oil filter for the 2.0 TDI.

One made in France, another in Hungary, another in Germany and one in China. The last one is IMHO much cheaper and nastier quality and thankfully seems to have been replaced by the other parts.

Different filters have different qualities. For example if you look at some of the cheaper oil filters in tins, the pressure release valves weep unfiltered oil past them, or even just divert oil around the filter when things get slightly dirty. The filters material bloats and makes flowing oil much harder.

Sure the halfords ones and big brand ones might be fine and made well, but there is certainly some cr*p out there. Add to that the fact that the halfords filters are more expensive than the dealer ones, even on trade and there is no point going there.

The ford and VW oils will be made to the same spec and will no doubt both work to the service regime given by the manufacturers.

As I've said time and time again, the VW standard doesn't mean other oils are not suitable, it means these oils are tested to be suitable. I'm sure if you ran the ford PD oil in any PD engine of that generation and stuck to the ford servicing schedule it would be fine.

The ford/VW standard are probably exactly the same, the oil made in the same place, but ford won't have a VW standard in their books so named it something themselves.

If I needed VW505.1 oil and the ford version was cheaper, then I'd buy the ford version knowing it's going to be just fine.

I never said an engine doesn't wear, I said you can get excessive cam wear.

Your car has done 100k, but only 50k of that is on the unapproved oil. Keep running it and let us know how things are after 100k on the cheaper oil.

It isn't a case of proof others are not good enough.

It is however a case that approved oil that costs not much more (0.1p per mile assuming you use the more expensive VW507 and do fixed servicing intervals anyway) give you a piece of mind that the oils have been tested under the conditions found in PD engines and found to protect the engine.

As with genuine filters that cost less than halfords ones, it's a case of it saves issues come a dealer taking the car in come a warranty claim of similar. You don't have to have the argument of whether the part is good enough or not.

Simples

Sorry Cheeze, my last one looks like it's a response to you but it wasn't really for you, you've already proved what I said is correct in a previous link, but look at the answer above yours and once again what I said has been ignored and an answer to suit the user has been posted, I'm going to get overulled on everything I say here anyway, so I'd rather not waste my time on it anymore.

[ap0gee1978]

Ignored? No. Contradicted? Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Galaxy#Galaxy_Mk1_.281995.E2.88.922000.29

The reason VAG call the requisite oil one thing, and Ford another is simply down to consistency with the rest of their product specc'ing system. The formulation is the same.

And to come out with such a fatuous remark as your last one about Mobil? The fact is that they themselves acknowledge they don't make anything that meets VAG's requirements:

https://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/car_care/which_oil/WhichOilManualResults.aspx?option=2

Do you think if they did, they wouldn't advertise it to increase their sales?!

At several points in this thread, you've been presented with evidence that proves your assumptions on lubricant technology are misguided, and your response has been 'See? That proves my point.' No it doesn't. It seems to me, you've taken a punt to save a few quid, based on what you THINK you know about oil, and when people have questioned your wisdom, you've either tried to claim that their contradictory evidence is in fact confirmatory, or yelled out 'Conspiracy!'

You keep on doing what you've been doing. Mark and I (and others) will continue to use the correct oil at the sort of prices you're prepared to pay for the wrong stuff. I think what's drawn the flak to be honest, is that you can't back up your claim that the stuff's OK, yet you evangelise about it...

[Supurbia]

Ignored? No. Contradicted? Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Galaxy#Galaxy_Mk1_.281995.E2.88.922000.29

The reason VAG call the requisite oil one thing, and Ford another is simply down to consistency with the rest of their product specc'ing system. The formulation is the same.

And to come out with such a fatuous remark as your last one about Mobil? The fact is that they themselves acknowledge they don't make anything that meets VAG's requirements:

https://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/car_care/which_oil/WhichOilManualResults.aspx?option=2

Do you think if they did, they wouldn't advertise it to increase their sales?!

At several points in this thread, you've been presented with evidence that proves your assumptions on lubricant technology are misguided, and your response has been 'See? That proves my point.' No it doesn't. It seems to me, you've taken a punt to save a few quid, based on what you THINK you know about oil, and when people have questioned your wisdom, you've either tried to claim that their contradictory evidence is in fact confirmatory, or yelled out 'Conspiracy!'

You keep on doing what you've been doing. Mark and I (and others) will continue to use the correct oil at the sort of prices you're prepared to pay for the wrong stuff. I think what's drawn the flak to be honest, is that you can't back up your claim that the stuff's OK, yet you evangelise about it...

So two names for the same thing isn't confusing then, all I'm saying is you state that a PD engine must have 500 spec oil, yet Ford use the engine and spec another spec for it, now if it's the same oil which we all know it is why isn't it labelled the same spec for both? I'm not guess working at all, I know that good grade oil is just that, and the one I use goes in VX V8's, so it has to be able to withstand 7000rpm at the hands of the enthusastic driver, hardly what you could call substandard is it, and to further back it up I've seen PD's do 300k before on any old oil the driver could lay hands to, none suffered any of the damage scare rumour. You can use whatever you like, it's up to you what you put in it mate, I was trying to give ppl an alternative, infact the handbook even states you can use B3 and B4 grades if thats all thats available, now to me either you can or you can't, there's no ok it'll be ok because 507 isn't sold in Nepal, but be sure to have an oil change once back in a country that does. Mobil I guess looked at the whole situation and washed it's hands of VAG so there'd be no chance of a lawsuit for engine failures, add in the patent licenses and they probably thought not worth it. For the record, I think it's a con, those that don't thats fair enough, and I do think you're having a go because I'm not a fanboy of VAG and you don't like me pointing out just what sort of a company it really is. Yep, that's exactly what it is Current Vehicle: Year: 2004 Make: Volkswagen Model: Passat Engine Type: 4cyl. 2.0Liter TDI-PD Turbocharged View printable Special Requirement; VW 505 01 Requires a Volkswagen 505 01 spec motor oil. i.e, we ain't gonna open ourselves up to get sued, especially in America, if you spoke to someone at Mobil off the record I'd say they'd tell you Mobil 1 is fine in it but we can't endorse it for legal or risk reasons, anyway, you're not going to agree with me even if hell froze, so I guess I'll leave it there and read your reply tomorrow, which no doubt will only seek to rubbish my opinion further.

Edited 27 November, 2009 by Supurbia

[ap0gee1978]

Why won't you accept that 505.01 is VW's name for a particular formulation of oil, and WSS M2C-917A is Ford's name for that same formulation? You'll be trying to tell me that the Skoda Laura:

http://www.skodalaura.co.in/

...and the Skoda Octavia:

http://new.skoda-auto.com/COM/model/newoctavia/look/Pages/look.aspx?ff=0

...are two completely different cars next.

Thank you for the nugget about your choice of oil going in GM's V8s, because that's enough to find out what you're actually using, and prove that it isn't even ACEA B3/B4 oil (which clearly you think it is!):

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

Just as your lack of understanding over the provenance of the Mk1 Galaxy diesel engines demonstrates you don't know as much as you think you do about cars, your statement that 'this oil goes in GM V8s, so it must be the best around' shows you don't know much about engines either. The low specific output of the GM V8s (typically around 60bhp per litre in normally-aspirated form, or around 20% less than that produced by European engines) means that less stress is put on the engine components, and the requirement for advanced properties such as high shear resistance is reduced.

Now, assuming you're not going to try and claim this actually PROVES your point as you have been with the Galaxy / Sharan fiasco, you say yourself that the manual states you can use B3/B4 oil if you can't get 505.01, and yet you have been filling your car with A1/B1 oil for the last 50k, which is a lower spec. I'll leave it up to you to explain how this is a good idea...

You may be interested to know, that I myself take certain 'liberties' with what VAG tell you to do as regards service fluids. Allow me explain:

Oil: As you know, I won't put anything in if it's not compliant with the 505.01 spec. But this doesn't matter, because with a little bit of effort, I can get hold of it for virtually the same price as non-compliant 5W-40 synthetic oil.

Coolant: Although I probably could have got it cheaper than at Halfords, I bought a big bottle of their orange / pink long-life coolant when an error on my part replacing my wife's thermostat meant she lost quite a bit of the stuff. Sure, I could have shopped around for that too, but Halfords isn't far from my work, so it was easiest to get the coolant there, and then fix the leak and top-up when I got home. Halfords long-life coolant doesn't claim to be compatible with G12, but what it does claim is that it's compatible with TL774-D, which as I say, can be proven to be the same as G12 (much as WSS M2C-917A is the same as 505.01):

http://lukoil-lubricants.com/products/passenger/techliq/00207/

http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/350

http://www.wilcodirect.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1415

http://www.addinol.co.uk/cooler.php

http://www.fuchslubricants.com/products/111/maintain-fricofin-g-12-plus

Screenwash: VAG are insistent you use their own screenwash with the fanjets, to stop them blocking, to stop foaming, and to prevent damage to the pipes. For this, I don't bother and just get the cheapo blue stuff. I would get the VAG stuff if I could find it at a decent price, but I can't so I don't.

This isn't, however, down to the fact I looked at the bottle, saw it said 'Screenwash' on it, and convinced myself that it must be the same as the VAG screenwash; it's down the the fact that I know from experience that it doesn't foam, I know how to get the fanjets off to clear them (not that they have), and I also know how to get to all the joints and replace the requisite parts, should a leak occur (not that it has either).

The difference here is that I understand the failure modes associated with using non-compliant screenwash, and am in a position to sort them should anything ever happen, at very little cost in comparison to the extra cost of buying enough VAG screenwash to keep up with the rate I get through the stuff.

I take the punt firmly in the knowledge that I know what I'm letting myself in for, and am happy I'm quids-in if VAG's scare-stories (as you call them) turn out to be true. You, on the other hand have seen that the manual allows you to stick ACEA B3/B4 in if you can't get 505.01, and have then decided that A1/B1 oil is close enough, on the assumption that 90 quid in-hand is more important than taking all reasonable steps to avoid an engine rebuild, EVEN AFTER people have told you more than once that you CAN get the correct oil at more-or-less what you're paying for your A1/B1 stuff.

Now you've been presented with the evidence that your - let's face it - HUNCH is wrong, please don't get all Nigel Tufnell on me and repeat your own flawed arguments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

And by the way, with the aim of mitigating any further damage, here's the real deal for 30 quid delivered (I'm not the seller, I hasten to add!) Is your GM A1/B1 stuff REALLY that much cheaper?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Quantum-Platinum-PD-Fully-Synthetic-Diesel-Oil-5w-40-5L_W0QQitemZ280418683384QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=e8f87be71240a0aad4439523ffc50fb4

Edited 27 November, 2009 by ap0gee

[ap0gee1978]

By the way, I take back what I said in post 12 about one type of 5W-30 synthetic oil possibly being the same as the next - it's not something I'd put a lot of thought into prior to this week, although the more digging I've done, the more I've found it not to be the case.

I'm sorry I've been unable to convince you of this as well, and hope your cams haven't suffered too much from 50000 miles of inadvertent ACEA A1/B1 abuse from an owner who clearly thinks that the manual saying you can use B3/B4 oil if you really have to actually means he has the green light to put in anything with an ACEA rating on it...

Edited 27 November, 2009 by ap0gee

[Supurbia]

By the way, I take back what I said in post 12 about one type of 5W-30 synthetic oil possibly being the same as the next - it's not something I'd put a lot of thought into prior to this week, although the more digging I've done, the more I've found it not to be the case.

I'm sorry I've been unable to convince you of this as well, and hope your cams haven't suffered too much from 50000 miles of inadvertent ACEA A1/B1 abuse from an owner who clearly thinks that the manual saying you can use B3/B4 oil if you really have to actually means he has the green light to put in anything with an ACEA rating on it...

Never said that mate, B3 & B4, B3 in the VX oils is 10/40 and B4 is the 5/30 one, I'm not advocating ppl chuck Tesco supermulti in one, I'm just saying if you use a good quality oil from a known good brand it will be ok. As for the branding, I know what 501 etc is and I know it's the same oil under another name at Ford, it has to be doesn't it, which is what I've been trying to get across, the main issue is viscosity, put a 15 grade oil in and as you say you will kill the cams, put a 0 or 5 grade in and it should do exactly the same as what VAG recommend, as for the 50k on my cams, they sound fine bud, if I'd done them in it would sound like Keith Moon practising by now, she's as good as the day I got her, there's no ticking or knocking to be heard. Anyway I think we've done it to death now, so lets leave it to anyone else reading if they want to take the risk or not eh.

[ap0gee1978]

Anyway I think we've done it to death now, so lets leave it to anyone else reading if they want to take the risk or not eh.

Yep.

[cheezemonkhai]

Just to add a correction to a comment above, while trying not to carry this on.

Mobil do make a VW spec oil.

VW504/507 is Mobil1 ESP

[Supurbia]

Just to add a correction to a comment above, while trying not to carry this on.

Mobil do make a VW spec oil.

VW504/507 is Mobil1 ESP

Trust you, rotf.

[magictongue]

Wish I'd never started this now. Guys to be clear im somewhere in the middle of this row. But the reason i started it was to say you CAN get VW spec oil at less than the price of non spec oil so WHY would you take the chance???????

[Supurbia]

Wish I'd never started this now. Guys to be clear im somewhere in the middle of this row. But the reason i started it was to say you CAN get VW spec oil at less than the price of non spec oil so WHY would you take the chance???????

Yeah, but then your thread would only have a paltry 5 replies

[toni4125]

Excellent post !

I've got full-synthetic as Repsol TDI 0-30W,

Bye

[dohertyjj]

Sorry I am with Superbia on this one. Lets get real BMW GM VW and Merc DO NOT make oil ! FACT. They use manafactors to do this. now imagine how expensive an oil would be if it was made just for one engine type. Well the real important fact with oil is viscosity. If you get a cheap oill or wrong viscosity then I can understand how a PD engine can be damaged. My Dad works on commercial vehicles and cars and do you think they have 18 barrels of oil lying around. If you want to believe all this 505, 506 507 then thats ok. My Superb is out of warrenty and I know that with regular oil changes the car will be fine. Oh I have the blue coolant in my radiator not the pink Well the radiator failed after 40k so the pink cannot be that good. God I am a rebel.

couldn't agree more just buy a good quality 5 30 grade fully syn oil and a sealy oil vacum system and you will have no problems if you change your oil and filter every 10k proof superb with 150k on clock and octavia with 240k on clock most dealers have a 45 gallon barrel same oil goes into a felica as goes into superb there is no doubt if you use old style oils in any modern car you will run into problems as a lot of newer engines do not have valve stem seals any more they depend on an oil pressure system and can have problems from cold starting to chucking while driving

i

[TheFinn]

FWIW, I'm using 505.01 spec Teboil Diamond Diesel 5W-40. It's Finnish brand (owned by Lukoil nowadays) and costs under 26 euros (under 23 pounds) per four litres. For this price I see no reason what so ever to use anything that does not meet VAG spec.