THE Winter Tyres Thread

[Rooted]

I needed to replace my Michelin Alpin 6 on the front of my Corsa electric after getting a bulge from a hard hit on a pothole.  Also a few cuts on the sidewall.  Down to 2mm.  So were coming off anyway before any snow.   I had ordered BG Goodrich G-Force Winter 2 but they were not available so I have Riken Snow tyres instead on.   Much meatier tread.   9mm now as new. Tyres half the price of the Aplin 6 and from a manufacturer Michelin own.    Still a pair of Alpin 6 on the rear with  wear after 32,000 miles in 2 years.  Now @ 5mm.     I will see how the Riken are in the wet later and in the dry when the newness is off.  In the snow in maybe a couple of weeks time. 

 

Edited 31 October, 2022 by roottoot

[Rooted]

Most of us know what the story is no matter what year they do the videos.

It seems it is just lots of SUV / AWD car drivers that fail to get the message about having all the gear other than the correct tyres when winter gets wintry,

 

 

It was worth a try in D1

. 'What is the worst that could happen?' as he was only going back down anyway. 

Edited 24 November, 2022 by toot

[Gaz]

Interesting:

 

 

 

Gaz

[DSL]

Did someone say “winter tyres”?   😃

 

Conti winters doing their thing today keeping us on the black white stuff.  Been driving on fair amount of snow and ice recently and Skippy hasn’t put a foot wrong. 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 2022 by DSL

[NX01]

Looking for some advice if I may.

 

I am a fan of winter tyres and have the Continental TS850 on my Superb and they have been excellent.

 

Am taking delivery of a new Kodiaq next month so will be back in the market for new tyres etc.

 

My knowledge of these things is slim to say the least but by my limited thinking I thought that the twice yearly stretching to remove and fit the tyres would not be good for the longevity of the tyres so went for a 2nd set of rims which after 7 years has meant the winters have never come off the rims and the summer tyres have only been changed twice.  I appreciate 7 years is a long time for tyres but I have them checked by a trusted garage each year before and after use.

 

I guess my question is will swapping and changing tyres each time be damaging for 19" tyres?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[SurreyJohn]

2 hours ago, NX01 said:

Looking for some advice if I may.

 

I am a fan of winter tyres and have the Continental TS850 on my Superb and they have been excellent.

 

Am taking delivery of a new Kodiaq next month so will be back in the market for new tyres etc.

 

My knowledge of these things is slim to say the least but by my limited thinking I thought that the twice yearly stretching to remove and fit the tyres would not be good for the longevity of the tyres so went for a 2nd set of rims which after 7 years has meant the winters have never come off the rims and the summer tyres have only been changed twice.  I appreciate 7 years is a long time for tyres but I have them checked by a trusted garage each year before and after use.

 

I guess my question is will swapping and changing tyres each time be damaging for 19" tyres?

Personally, I would be loath to put them on and off rims 14 times (twice a year for 7 years).   A good tyre fitter might be ok, but many fitters do not take much care and rather snatch at the tyre beads when taking them over rims.

 

If keeping 7 years, I would be inclined to have second set of rims.

 

This is rims brochure, depending on what you have, the winter rims from Superb might be ok for Kodiaq

 

https://www.skoda.co.uk/_doc/639a0118-4da5-446b-a786-86e1f789b57b

 

For reference there is also a complete wheel (rim + winter tyre brochure)

 

[SurreyJohn]

Looks like Skoda has issued a new winter wheels and tyres brochure

 

https://cf-cdn-v6-api.skoda.at/files/dc65993199f942ed5279baff86cc4abcd6781b03/b3f85333-cc44-4541-b2f5-d180744ac4f3/skowkr297x210mm2324rzds
 

[PPIZulu]

Official Skoda Accessory Winter Complete Wheels Not Matching Recommended Alloy Wheel v. Tyre Pairing Sizes.

Living in Scotland and having a twenty five mile drive to work, one of our cars needs to be 4WD to cope with the winters, be big enough for four of us plus the grandparents and keep the family safe in testing driving conditions. Hence the Kodiaq. Until moving to Scotland I didn't even know that having different tyres for winter driving was even a thing. Now, having experienced their superior winter performance, I am a total convert.

Any hooose...the insurance company allow the fitting of winter tyres but they have to be the manufacturer recommended offering. Fair enough. The rule was the same for the Tesla. Likewise, the actual wheels can also be changed as long as they are the same dimensions and tyre combination as one of the manufacturer recommended combinations. To save having the tyres pried off the rims and back on again twice a year (and the attendant stress on both tyres and rims) I have two sets of wheels for my cars; one set with 'summer' tyres and one set with 'winters'. As the Kodiaq is new I have yet to furnish it with [complete] winter wheels. So, I went looking for the Skoda official offering via the Skoda shop (.co.uk) and my local dealership.

Attached is the current official Skoda winter complete wheels offering.

So, speaking to the local Skoda dealership parts department (and through them to Skoda Technical UK) I was informed that, for my model, I could fit either the 20", 19" or 18" offerings. So far, so good. The cost of the 20" was quoted at around £3200 (inc VAT) and the 19" were about £2200 (inc VAT) - ouch! Not so good. I was sure I could find the same combination cheaper and separately via Black Circles/Tyres-Pneus...etc and ebay. And so I can...but...

Whilst researching the combinations I realised that whilst the 'Skoda official' 235/45s fitted to the 20" (8J) rims is within the rim width v. tyre width combination recommendations (Tyre Equivalence), the 235/50s and the 235/55s fitted to the 19" and 18" rims respectively are not with in the recommended rim width combination of a 7J rim. In all of the Tyre Equivalence tables I can find (including the one linked above) the maximum recommended tyre width for a 7J rim is 225.

So...what gives?

How are Skoda offering an official winter complete wheel combination that, as far as I can see, is not recommended by tyre or alloy wheel manufacturers? I queried this with the local parts department who then referred to Skoda Technical and, figuratively, everyone shrugged. I've tried but I can't seem to find any official governmental or motor trade governing body absolute rules.

Thanks for your kind attention.

Zulu.

skowkr297x210mm2324rzds.pdf

[Rooted]

@PPIZuluWelcome.

Which is your Local Skoda Dealership? 

 

Would you really want to put the tyres you need for where you drive on 19 or 20" rims? 

 

Maybe just as well to ignore the Skoda offerings.  

 

@Carlstonis who know all the why and what fors about Rims, Widths etc. 

The Approved sizes for the vehicles / models / engines etc.

 

Did the Parts Department really talk to a VW Group Technical Department?

 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by Rooted

[Gaz]

@PPIZulu Have you seen in the for sale section:

 

 

 

Gaz

 

[Carlston]

10 hours ago, PPIZulu said:

Official Skoda Accessory Winter Complete Wheels Not Matching Recommended Alloy Wheel v. Tyre Pairing Sizes.

Living in Scotland and having a twenty five mile drive to work, one of our cars needs to be 4WD to cope with the winters, be big enough for four of us plus the grandparents and keep the family safe in testing driving conditions. Hence the Kodiaq. Until moving to Scotland I didn't even know that having different tyres for winter driving was even a thing. Now, having experienced their superior winter performance, I am a total convert.

Any hooose...the insurance company allow the fitting of winter tyres but they have to be the manufacturer recommended offering. Fair enough. The rule was the same for the Tesla. Likewise, the actual wheels can also be changed as long as they are the same dimensions and tyre combination as one of the manufacturer recommended combinations. To save having the tyres pried off the rims and back on again twice a year (and the attendant stress on both tyres and rims) I have two sets of wheels for my cars; one set with 'summer' tyres and one set with 'winters'. As the Kodiaq is new I have yet to furnish it with [complete] winter wheels. So, I went looking for the Skoda official offering via the Skoda shop (.co.uk) and my local dealership.

Attached is the current official Skoda winter complete wheels offering.

So, speaking to the local Skoda dealership parts department (and through them to Skoda Technical UK) I was informed that, for my model, I could fit either the 20", 19" or 18" offerings. So far, so good. The cost of the 20" was quoted at around £3200 (inc VAT) and the 19" were about £2200 (inc VAT) - ouch! Not so good. I was sure I could find the same combination cheaper and separately via Black Circles/Tyres-Pneus...etc and ebay. And so I can...but...

Whilst researching the combinations I realised that whilst the 'Skoda official' 235/45s fitted to the 20" (8J) rims is within the rim width v. tyre width combination recommendations (Tyre Equivalence), the 235/50s and the 235/55s fitted to the 19" and 18" rims respectively are not with in the recommended rim width combination of a 7J rim. In all of the Tyre Equivalence tables I can find (including the one linked above) the maximum recommended tyre width for a 7J rim is 225.

So...what gives?

How are Skoda offering an official winter complete wheel combination that, as far as I can see, is not recommended by tyre or alloy wheel manufacturers? I queried this with the local parts department who then referred to Skoda Technical and, figuratively, everyone shrugged. I've tried but I can't seem to find any official governmental or motor trade governing body absolute rules.

 

If you look at the Kodiaq Owner's Manual, you will see that the only tyre and rim combination that is approved by Skoda for use with snow chains is 215/65R17 fitted to a 6.5Jx17 ET38 5/112 57.1 rim.

 

As Skoda don't sell cars that can't be used with snow chains, you can use this tyre and rim combination.

 

Take a look at the car's CoC (Certificate of Conformity). All the tyre and rim combinations that Skoda approve for your car are in there.

 

Skoda (or any of the big car manufacturers that sell cars in Europe) don't approve any tyre and rim combinations that aren't approved by ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation). In Europe, ETRTO is the only authority on what rim width any particular tyre size can be fitted to.

 

When discussing what rim widths can be used with any particular tyre size, you can't leave out the aspect ratio. This is because the ETRTO approved rim widths vary not only with the tyre width, but also with the aspect ratio. In general, as the aspect ratio gets smaller for any given tyre width the range of ETRTO approved rim widths gets bigger. For example, both 235/55R18 and 235/50R19 could be fitted to a 6.5J rim width, but a 235/45R20 needs at least a 7.5J rim width.

 

ETRTO approved rim widths

215/65R17 6.0-6.5-7.5

235/55R18 6.5-7.5-8.5

235/50R19 6.5-7.5-8.5

235/45R20 7.5-8.0-9.0

255/40R20 8.5-9.0-10.0

 

As you can see in the below Skoda alloy rim catalogue, there are many Skoda approved rim sizes for the Kodiaq. However, check your car's CoC to be sure what is approved by Skoda for your particular car.

 

Skoda alloy rim catalogue

6.5Jx17 ET38 (215/65R17)

7Jx17 ET40 (215/65R17)

7Jx18 ET43 (235/55R18)

7Jx19 ET43 (235/50R19)

7.5jX19 ET40 (235/50R19)

8Jx20 ET41 (235/45R20)

8.5Jx20 ET38 (255/50R20)

https://www.skoda.co.uk/_doc/639a0118-4da5-446b-a786-86e1f789b57b

 

Alcar 9021 6.5Jx17 ET38 5/112 57.1 steel rim

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-9021

 

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/alcar/14750807

 

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=672860434273997936&rimCode=ALCAR9021

 

Wheel trim for 6.5Jx17 ET38 steel rim 565071457 Z31

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/poklice-borneo-17/p/565071457++Z31

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404172063052

 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by Carlston

[SurreyJohn]

If you go for the 17 inch rims for the Kodiaq which take 215/65 R17 tyres, then there is very good selection of premium winter tyres in that size.

 

Might be cheaper to order rims separately, then order the tyres to be fitted to them.  Although maybe can get a good deal on complete wheels.   Generally tyres are easy to order on internet.  Ordering rims is bit more effort as fewer places sell them that advertise online (use the linked catalogue and phone up your nearest dealers parts Dept for a price too)

 

Good 215/65 R17 winter tyres include (what you choose will depend on price and availability), so here is shortlist. :

Bridgestone blizzak LM-005

Continental TS870 P

Dunlop winter sport SUV

Goodyear Ultragrip performance + SUV

Hankook i*cept evo3 x W330 SUV

Michelin pilot Alpin 5

Pirelli winter Sottozero 3

 

[Rooted]

 

 

[MCAMRA]

When skiing…….I prefer narrow skis than wide skis anyday.

 

Is it that the same principle as a tyre…?

 

A smaller width tyre is better in the snow IMHO.

 

Think of a saab 900 classic that is regarded as one of the best cars in snow. Very narrow tyres.

 

But that might not work for everyone.

 

 

[Rooted]

@MCAMRA Are you in the UK and where are you driving and what are you driving now?

 

Then, 

 Do we assume you mean Alpine ski-ing and not Nordic or Ski Mountaineering.

Skis did get shorter and wider and fair enough if the does not suit you, but we know nothing about you.

 

Some people use different skis for different conditions and locations, slopes and icy or not.

 

.............

Now on a Glacier Wide / Flotation type tyres work, on a Land Rover 90/110 even, or a series Land rover, biting into snow.

Big wide open tread, narrow tyres, like mud tyres were / are. 

 

But then if talking UK and ploughed and gritted roads and then black top and modern tyres the tech has changed. 

 

So now there are tyres you want the snow to hold in the tyre and grip the snow, but then you get all kinds of snow and temperatures.

 

Horses for courses and how far are you going on snow, deep fresh snow, or hard compacted, or slush, or just a bit of white stuff?

 

It can be what suits what and where you are going that matters.

Edited 24 February by Rooted

[MCAMRA]

13 hours ago, Rooted said:

@MCAMRA Are you in the UK and where are you driving and what are you driving now?

 

Then, 

 Do we assume you mean Alpine ski-ing and not Nordic or Ski Mountaineering.

Skis did get shorter and wider and fair enough if the does not suit you, but we know nothing about you.

 

Some people use different skis for different conditions and locations, slopes and icy or not.

 

.............

Now on a Glacier Wide / Flotation type tyres work, on a Land Rover 90/110 even, or a series Land rover, biting into snow.

Big wide open tread, narrow tyres, like mud tyres were / are. 

 

But then if talking UK and ploughed and gritted roads and then black top and modern tyres the tech has changed. 

 

So now there are tyres you want the snow to hold in the tyre and grip the snow, but then you get all kinds of snow and temperatures.

 

Horses for courses and how far are you going on snow, deep fresh snow, or hard compacted, or slush, or just a bit of white stuff?

 

It can be what suits what and where you are going that matters.

I live in France and go skiing very often. 
 

Tyres…smaller the better in my opinion. 

 

Skis…try doing ‘la chasse neige’ in fat skis. You go backwards not forwards.

 

I remember 20 years ago going up the chicanes of Alpe du Huez in an old Renault 5. As is snowed everyone was putting chains on and we just overtook the lot of them.

 

I remember in the UK as a kid being taken to school by my dad in snow (proper snow) in a Vauxhall Chevette. Lol.

 

Today, that school would be closed because the fat wheel tyre suv brigade can’t get out of their drives. Lol

 

Edited 25 February by MCAMRA