Towing weights.

[Llanigraham]

Link no longer working

Edited 26 January, 2014 by damo
out of date link

[James I]

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/skoda.htm#yeti11

Very informative website, question is do you go by the 85% rule or the stated MAX towing weight?

I will be towing an Abbey GTS 517 with my Yeti 170, max caravan weight is 1495kg, if I went by 85% rule I would be over by more than 200 kilos.

BTW would the 170 have the same weights as a 140?

[Llanigraham]

James,

I think they have an error, and the final 4x4 entry is actually the 170 not the 140 as listed.

Your caravan's max weight (1495kg) is in excess of the car's kerb weight (1460kg), so although within the towing capacity of the car, it isn't something I would recommend. If you got stopped you might have some explaining to do.

Don't forget that nowadays the Police and VOSA don't work on actual weights, but on the stated/plated max weights of both towing vehicle and trailer, although if pushed they can make you get weighed.

[James I]

Here is a statement off the NTTA website, nowhere does it state the 85% rule is law.

Quote from http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/preparing.aspx

"A good rule of thumb, for safety and stability, when towing a caravan, is the 85% figure recommended for caravans by the Caravan Club. This suggests that you should not tow a caravan that weighs more than 85% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight. (as long as 85% does not exceed the vehicle manufacturer's recommended towing limit. (The kerb weight is defined as the weight of the vehicle plus a full tank of petrol and 75kg (for the driver and luggage).)

Police Forces use the manufacturer's recommended towing limit as their guide. Under no circumstances should the vehicle's gross train weight be exceeded. You should also refer to limitations on overall length, details can be found in this guide that deal with trailer dimensions."

It is interesting that the Police use the manufacturers maximum weight. This is a relief because I have towed my caravan with a Passat (max weight for towing 1500kg) My Audi A4 with a max of 1800kg and now the Yeti with a max of 2000kg.

Try this website, you can select your car and caravan, the website then calculates your outfit and gives a star rating.

here is the link for you to start entering your details http://www.whattowcar.com/

Edited 10 August, 2011 by James I

[Llanigraham]

James,

I know the 85% thing is not legal, having been towing for more than 20 years. However, what I have pointed out that although your caravan is below the 2000kg max weight limit stated by Skoda it is still more than the kerb weight of your Yeti.

Caravan 1495kg max

Yeti 1460kg kerb weight

I agree it is legal but if you got stopped, like they were doing at Exeter Services recently, you might have to justify yourself to the Police or VOSA.

Currently the 2 main Clubs have been considering whether to increase the suggested figure to 90%, because of modern car technology and safety.

EDIT,

Your first towcar link doesn't work, I'm afraid.

Your second one gives my unit a 5* rating!!

[James I]

James,

I know the 85% thing is not legal, having been towing for more than 20 years. However, what I have pointed out that although your caravan is below the 2000kg max weight limit stated by Skoda it is still more than the kerb weight of your Yeti.

Caravan 1495kg max

Yeti 1460kg kerb weight

I agree it is legal but if you got stopped, like they were doing at Exeter Services recently, you might have to justify yourself to the Police or VOSA.

Currently the 2 main Clubs have been considering whether to increase the suggested figure to 90%, because of modern car technology and safety.

EDIT,

Your first towcar link doesn't work, I'm afraid.

Your second one gives my unit a 5* rating!!

I had no idea the police were stopping caravans, I have been towing for the past 20 years also and am a responsible driver, I always try and stay under the caravan maximum by putting the majority of what we take with us in the car, I also tow without any water in the caravan tank or toilet.

I am in agreement with upping the limit to 90% as this reflects a more realistic figure that new technology is capable of.

The link that does not work was just my outfit, got a good score.

I have read on many forums this afternoon about towing weights and rules and I think there is a lot of conflicting advice being given, the information you have posted is very informative and useful. I also feel that this subject could run and run so I will make do with what I have been doing since 2004 at least when I bought the Abbey.

[Llanigraham]

Devon Police, (and North Wales Police) have been taking quite a strong stance on towing for the last couple of years. At Exeter they were on the M5 prior to the Services and anything that looked "wrong" was escorted in and checked, plus they had staff wandering around checking and talking to talking to people. I understand that quite a few people got caught out over various matters.

NWP did a similar thing on the A55 and A5 last month.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, especially if it stops some idiot causing an accident.

It is nice only towing a max of 1050kg!!

[James I]

I have just read that the Yeti 170 has a kerb weight of 1535kg, this makes me happier as the car is heavier than the caravan, also in Skoda's figures maximum towing weight is 2000kg

See here Skoda UK

Edited 10 August, 2011 by James I

[IainM1970]

The published weight for the Yeti 170 is 1460Kg BUT this does not include the 75Kg that other makers include for the driver and some luggage (according to the brochure), hence you will see the weight quoted at 1535Kg in other places.

I would go with 1535Kg, as the accepted norm is to include the 75Kg.

If I keep my current caravan I will be towing 1310Kg with my 170 when it arrives ... having towed with three 170 Octy vRS models I know it won't be short in power! Chances are we will change 'vans for a 2012 model. The one that looks nost promising weighs in at 1380Kg so still within the Yeti's capabilities.

Would be interested to hear how you get on towing 1495Kg.

[James I]

The published weight for the Yeti 170 is 1460Kg BUT this does not include the 75Kg that other makers include for the driver and some luggage (according to the brochure), hence you will see the weight quoted at 1535Kg in other places.

I would go with 1535Kg, as the accepted norm is to include the 75Kg.

If I keep my current caravan I will be towing 1310Kg with my 170 when it arrives ... having towed with three 170 Octy vRS models I know it won't be short in power! Chances are we will change 'vans for a 2012 model. The one that looks nost promising weighs in at 1380Kg so still within the Yeti's capabilities.

Would be interested to hear how you get on towing 1495Kg.

I have read just on Skoda UK website that the detachable towbar option is limited to 1600kg braked trailer weight!

see here

[IainM1970]

I have read just on Skoda UK website that the detachable towbar option is limited to 1600kg braked trailer weight!

see here

Really? I will be having a fixed bracket anyway, not that i'll be anywhere near 1600Kg as it is.

[Llanigraham]

Doesn't tally with the figures actually on the sticker affixed by the bar manufacturer, plus it does say subject to vehicle specification.

Also for all those querying the weights of their vehicles; the official and legal weights are all on a plate fixed to the car, at the bottom of the B post, inside the drivers door. The figures in the brochure are advisory.

[mfdaustrey]

But what do the figures on the plate mean for the kerb weight?

Mine says

2075

4075

1. 1090

2. 1030

[Llanigraham]

But what do the figures on the plate mean for the kerb weight?

Mine says

2075 KERB WEIGHT IN RUNNING ORDER

4075 MAXIMUM TOTAL TRAIN WEIGHT (SO TOTAL COMBINED WEIGHT ALLOWED FOR CAR AND TRAILER)

1. 1090 FRONT AXLE WEIGHT LIMIT

2. 1030 REAR AXLE WEIGHT LIMIT

Therefore it confirms that the maximum weight of trailer you can tow is 2000kg.

[mfdaustrey]

But it does not help me decide what the 85% calculation is based on. The 2075 can't really be the figure. Skoda have told me it is 1480 as I have the spare wheel.

[Llanigraham]

But it does not help me decide what the 85% calculation is based on. The 2075 can't really be the figure. Skoda have told me it is 1480 as I have the spare wheel.

Are you sure you copied those figures correctly? Doesn't seem to tally with this site:

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/skoda.htm#yeti11

The 85% guidelines, as recommended by the Caravan Club and the Camping and Caravan Club is based on 85% of the kerb weight. Having a spare wheel makes no difference.

The maximum legally you can tow with some Yeti's is 2000kg.

Two questions:

1/ Who gave you the 1480kg figure, SUK or a dealer?

2/ Exactly which Yeti do you have?

[rockhopper]

I make 85% of your car kerb weight 1763kg (rounded down).

Note the maximum gross trailer weight mentioned on the trailer plate can be no more than 2000 kg. if it is more and you are stopped, you could be done, even if the trailer is empty......

[mfdaustrey]

SUK gave me the figure.

The caravan club use the worst case scenario because they personally don't know the full details. Surely when I am working the figures out I can use the exact ones since the stability relies on the actual weight not some hypothetical one.

Edited 22 November, 2012 by mfdaustrey

[countryboy]

The 85% is based on the kerb weight of the car that is the base weight of the car NOT the max loaded weight. So on the Skoda weight, 85% is actually only 1258kg.

According to the whattowcar website, my Octavia has a kerbweight of 1470kg and the caravan has a Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) of 1297kg, though the plate on the caravan says 1308kg. Using the 1308kg, that gives a weight 89% of that of the car and it pulls the caravan nicely, even in breezy conditions.

Ian

[mfdaustrey]

I know they base it on the kerb weight, just as they base the caravan on the MTPLM, but my argument is that this is being 'too' safe. If the idea of stability is higher weight car and lower weight caravan then it must depend on actual weights. And if it is to do with safety then 90% for new cars should possibly be used.

Edited 1 December, 2012 by mfdaustrey

[Llanigraham]

They are being "safe" based on experience.

Too many people have no idea about safe loading, balance, or the effect the caravan has on the car's performance, plus it takes in the ability of the car to restart and stop on a 1 : 8 hill.

I understood that the 2 Clubs were looking at their advisory percentage being raised to 90%, but haven't seen any news about it lately.

[countryboy]

I know they base it on the kerb weight, just as they base the caravan on the MTPLM, but my argument is that this is being 'too' safe. If the idea of stability is higher weight car and lower weight caravan then it must depend on actual weights. And if it is to do with safety then 90% for new cars should possibly be used.

But they have to base their guidance on the fact that most people will only tow maybe 2 or 3 times a year and be very inexperienced in how to handle a car and caravan combination. The higher the weight of the car in relation to the caravan then the less will be the tendency for the tail to wag the dog, not all new cars will have the latest technology like stability control to get you out of the dodgy situations people land themselves in.

Ian

[James I]

I towed the same caravan with 4 different cars, first was a VW Passat 100 PD, listed tow weight was 1400 kg, car towed well. Second car was a Mitsubishi Grandis 2.0 DiD, listed tow weight was 2000 kg, this car was great but extremely thirsty when towing, no snaking or pushing from the caravan. third car was an Audi A4 B8 2.0 Tdi avant, listed tow weight 2000 kg, again this towed really well if a bit light on the drive wheels in the wet, very stable though. Last car was the Yeti, tow weight 2000 kg, sure footed, no loss of traction and enough power to pull more than the 1497 kg of my caravan.

With regards to the 85% rule, old austin marina, drum brakes, cross ply tyres, old fashioned caravan chassis and so on, technology moves on, even on a basic car as long as you are within the figures in the handbook, you will be fine.

Passat maximum, 1400kg, caravan 1497kg, towed fine and safely with no dramas on the roads.

Common sense should be applied.

[stevensmith91]

I towed the same caravan with 4 different cars, first was a VW Passat 100 PD, listed tow weight was 1400 kg, car towed well. Second car was a Mitsubishi Grandis 2.0 DiD, listed tow weight was 2000 kg, this car was great but extremely thirsty when towing, no snaking or pushing from the caravan. third car was an Audi A4 B8 2.0 Tdi avant, listed tow weight 2000 kg, again this towed really well if a bit light on the drive wheels in the wet, very stable though. Last car was the Yeti, tow weight 2000 kg, sure footed, no loss of traction and enough power to pull more than the 1497 kg of my caravan.

With regards to the 85% rule, old austin marina, drum brakes, cross ply tyres, old fashioned caravan chassis and so on, technology moves on, even on a basic car as long as you are within the figures in the handbook, you will be fine.

Passat maximum, 1400kg, caravan 1497kg, towed fine and safely with no dramas on the roads.

Common sense should be applied.

If you exceeded the max towing weight of your Passat you effectively rendered yourself open to Prosecution by towing above the 1400kg figure.

and you say " Common sense should be applied"

[James I]

yes, the maximum of the passat was 1400 kg, the maximum of the caravan was 1497 kg, a difference of 97 kg, so applying common sense meant I ran the caravan at 1400 kg.

But if you want to be pedantic, would the 85% rule be variable? If the car is full of fuel when you set off you will be at 85%, as you burn off 60 litres you will then be over 85% as the car will be lighter would it not?

Caravanned for 12 years, from the south of France to tip of Scotland, never once had an incident or any issues with the snaking etc. It does help having a weigh bridge at the yard.