Citigo MPG

[Michaelski]

Well, Gerrycan,

53 mpg ain't too bad at all - certainly not "pitiful", and if it is in (as you say) a high mileage car, then even more "not bad at all".

It's only of fairly recent years that "technology" has progressed by leaps & bounds, and the ability to squeeze every single last mile out of a gallon of petrol has been achieved, but as a consequence, motorists now expect (if not demand) unrealistic figures.

 

In a former life& in an effort to reduce my motoring costs, I had skinned myself to buy a lousy Ford Fiesta with a puny 1100 cc engine, in the hope that my motoring costs would be something that I could afford (I was skint at the time & the Fiesta was claimed to be one of the cheapest cars to run).   It was anything BUT as economical as Ford claimed in their adverts, so much so that I asked around to find out what "real life" fuel figures were.    People who did seem to be au fait with the Fiesta, always stated that the car did "30 and a bit".  And that was what the car DID actually do - invariably 30, but not as high as 31.

Even a Mini (at least mine) tended to average only in the very low 40's, so anything over 50 mpg is a magnificent achievement.   And when one considers that in those days (the mid 1960's) the Mini had around 25 bhp: 4 cylinders, but did 72 mph (with a back wind & when the studs were popping out of the engine and the driver) & was built with the skill & finesse of a Somalian Chronometer - whereas the  Citigo has 75 bhp from just 3 cylinders: will hit way north of 105 mph without any effort: will invariably exceed 55 mpg, & the engine purrs away like a Swiss Chronometer.       Getting way North of 60, & even 70 mpg on occasions, tends to put it all into perspective for me, so I don't even blink if my mpg drops down to the low 50's on occasions.

 

There's a reason for all things - even dropping down dead is Natures' way of telling you that you may have a slight problem. 

 

[Gerrycan]

@Michaelski thanks for the tea and sympathy  

You are right I'm probably not going to get Citigo type returns from the Echo but the eventual score was more a reflection on my lack of preparation. I think 60's may be possible in ideal conditions but I blew my best chance on that trip by not allowing the extra hour for the best route.

The Echo engine was very advanced when it was first produced, 4 valve head, variable valve timing, port fuel injected in fact the same engine is still produced today by Toyota with exactly the same specification just pushing an extra 200kg along in the bigger safer versions of today. While my car is very tatty it is mechanically sound and worth more to me than the A$2000 (1200 pounds) it is valued at.

The fact is that I would have got better consumption if I had done the journey in our much larger and heavier 1.4tsi Mk3 Octavia, which as you say is an indication of the progress in engine efficiency.

 

I can relate to your disappointing experiences with consumption from petrol Fords with the small engine Escorts and Fiesta (mid 30s)I owned when in the UK, the Mini and Maxi (low 40s) were better though. In Australia I once had a locally produced Ford Falcon 4litre straight six with 4 speed auto box that drank fuel around town like a drunken sailor but on the open road easily returned low 40s at highway speeds.

 

I enjoy trying to get good economy from a car but the art is doing so without impeding anyone else, especially when they have a 40+ tonne argument on their side.

 

[Michaelski]

Hi Gerrycan,

Rule 1)   Settle for whatever consumption you get - you're hardly likely to improve on it, & if you persist in trying, you tend to become disillusioned.

Rule 2)   Screw everyone else on the road, and do the speed that YOU want - you should always be able to outrun a kangeroo.

Rule 3)   Your car is worth what it's worth TO YOU - any Dealer/Stealer is going to down-value it, so that they can both **** you off & make an extra few bucks for themselves.

Rule 4)   You're totally allowed to ignore rule 2, when there's a chuffin great artic' nibbling at your bum. 

 

I'm pretty well up on cars, but a Toyota (or Atoyot, if it's sniffing at your exhaust) Echo is a new one on me.   It's possibly a model which is indeed sold in UK, but perhaps specially renamed for Oz'.   I seem to recollect that Mitsubishi introduced a car into the US of A, which was called the "Zero", and then they wondered why it didn't sell.  Mind you, probably a car called a Messerchmitt 109 wouldn't sell all that well in UK - at least not to customers in the RAF.   

[ronime]

Take a look at Honest John's Real MPG website, there are some real eye openers on there. Particularly the Fiesta 1.0 EcoBoost and the FIAT 500 TwinAir.

 

The Citigo fares pretty well with 89% of the manufacturer's claimed MPG and the Porsche Cayman is pretty much spot on.

Edited 23 June, 2017 by ronime

[Michaelski]

Hi Gerrycan,

Having looked up what a Toyota Echo is on Google (what a wonderful invention it is) it would appear that the exact same car was indeed sold in the U of K, but over 'ere, it was called the Yaris.   Actually bought one of these for SWMBO in the very late 90's (as a move up from her customary broomstick) & as I always got the job (& the expense) of filling it up, my recollection of it, is that the mpg was never more than the mid>high 40's.   This could have been down to the way that she drove it - to SWMBO having any more than 3 gears on a car was a totally unnecessary extravagance, as she rarely got into 4th (& NEVER COULD find 5th), so at 53 mpg, I reckon that you did do well.      I regularly drove her car, as it saved me putting the miles on my own big gas-guzzler, & when once returning from Manchester Airport, & coming over the Pennines, I found to my horror that I had had allowed my concentration to lapse, & was doing well North of 100 mph - so they could be quite sprightly little machines, although I doubt that doing that speed did much for the mpg.    She had the Yaris for some 4 years, until she had an accident, & finally hung up her gear stick, & then we passed it on to one of the kids.   He had it for around a further 5 years, & when he left UK to go "back packing" round Oz & New Z, he donated it to our daughter.   She aimed it at the far horizon (be too much of a claim to say that she actually "drove" it) for a further 4 years, & then traded it in for some weird "cult" car that she had her eye on.   But doubtless the old Yaris is still somewhere out there, & performing a reliable service to whoever now has it - if nothing else, it was indeed reliable & trouble-free.

[Michaelski]

Have just re-read my Post of yesterday, & I now realise that I was talking total Pig S H One T - so put it all down to me having a a senior moment.    The "Escort" in question was actually a Ford Anglia 105E (the one with the weird forward-facing rear window) & the engine was a 997, rather than a 1100, and therefore was much, much punier (if there is such a word).  Either way, the car was a heap of turquoise dunnage, & I well remember closing/slamming the drivers door in winter, & a 12" x 18" square of paint simply fell off the door, leaving just the bare metal underneath.    Skint as I then was, I quickly traded it in for another pile of dunnage - a Viva 90SL - which only started when it felt like it.   I never travelled anywhere without jump leads or a tow rope, & boy, did I need them.

Time, thank the Good Lord, have changed considerably.

[Gerrycan]

@Michaelski we are of a similar generation from the vehicles you mention.

Up until my early forties all my cars were cheap second hand units but they only suffered two failures where I was left stranded.

They always started first time whatever the weather because I did my own servicing and had a monthly routine checking the points, plugs and jets.

Its funny you mentioned a Messerschmitt because when I was sixteen I always wanted one, not the 109 but a tandem seated 3 wheeler but ended up with a BMW Isetta 'bubble car' which I had a huge amount of fun with anyway.

The Echo/Yaris was a rescue vehicle retrieved from my daughter who got a company car. It does have a lot of pep and I think it channels 'Herbie' when speeds get into illegal territory, based on my daughter speeding fines. It is the first car I have performed a full service on for years, thank goodness for the Haynes manuals.

 

The Citigo is not available in Australia and very unlikely to unless fuel prices go through the roof. Skoda sales are starting to gain momentum here, but still a very minor player, although they tend to be bought by discerning drivers (of course) who value the way they drive and their practicality. The impressive economy I get from my 1.4tsi Octavia is a huge bonus.

 

I looked up the Honest Johns real mpg website mentioned which is really interesting and confirms a few prejudices I harboured concerning various makes.

 

 

 

[Michaelski]

Jeez Gerrycan, I didn't honestly think that there was anyone left from "my generation".  But I stand in awe of your motoring experiences, in those days, if my car actually started, I was blissful: if it managed to reach the end of my road (about 300 yards) I was ecstatic, & if it actually got me to where I needed to go, I thought that I'd been anointed into a State of Grace.

 

But I had a good friend, who was fed up of being continually wet to the skin, so he traded in his 500 cc BSA Shooting Star, & became the proud owner of a Messerschmitt 3 wheeler.     His happiness lasted until he blasted round a tight bend (exceeding the recommended 2 mph) & a strong gust of wind took him: his Messerschmitt & all his illusions over the garden hedge of a nearby house.   He was never the same again.

I also had a work colleague who swore by the Heinkel Bubble car that he had, until one day, he parked too close behind a lorry, & when reversing out, the lorry drove into (actually rather "over") his little Bubble, & then my colleague swore at it.   The car was never the same again either.   Oh, those 'appy, 'appy days.

 

If you can manage to "source" a Skoda Citigo, then I reckon that you would be well pleased - 107 mph: an average fuel consumption of 50-60: adequate room for 3 (& at a pinch - which is what it is) 4 six footers: purrs along like a swiss (rather than a Somalian) watch, & judging by my own experience (+ fellow Briskodians) they are as reliable as the wife nagging the living daylights out of you.   As Skoda are already represented in Oz', it's bound to be only a matter of time before they "test out the water" with the Citigo - perhaps in the larger cities first, as I gather from No. 2 son, that the distances in Oz are so vast, that one really needs something "big" when venturing into the Outback?  Perhaps a bit like the US of A: when I rented my first car there (way back in the 80's) I'd asked for a "Compact" car, as it was all that I could afford.   When I arrived at the Depot (or the Deeeeeeepo, as the Yanks called it) I was presented with this 8 litre Buick.   Only a 2 door, but each about 1/2 mile long, & both the Boot & the Bonnet (or the Trunk & the Hood, according to my new Yankee friends) were about the size of the flight deck on an aircraft carrier.     It did about 12 mpg, but petrol at that time was less than $1 per gallon (1/4 of what I was used to paying in UK) so it didn't really matter much.      Never did find out what the car was capable of, as not only was there a mandatory 50 mph speed limit across most of the States, but the speedo on this monstrosity only registered as far as 55 mph.    The hombre at the Depot told me that most cars were like that, & it was to prevent people from seeing what they actually "get out" of a car.    UK has a much better system, it's called Mobile Speed Vans (more generally known as Mobile Cash Dispensers) & they zero in on you if you exceed the speed limit by even 1 mph - as I recently discovered to my cost.   Next year, I hear that those in power are limiting the speed at which people can walk, & the number of breaths one can take per minute will soon be restricted!!!

The next time (some 10 years later) that I holidayed in the US of A, I again requested a "Compact" car, & this time it was about the size of a Citigo, so even the Americans had moved along down the path of sense & sensibility.

 

If I wasn't too old, I'd take the £10 assisted travel to Australia, although age must be relative, as my Great Grandad was 81 when he got a one way free passage to Botany Bay, so perhaps there's hope yet?

 

 

Edited 25 June, 2017 by Michaelski

[Gerrycan]

Sure there are big distances in Australia but the need for a big engine, big car rally dates back a few decades when there were no speed restrictions, more dirt roads, and engines were not very efficient. There are legendary stories of cannonball type runs averaging over 100mph between far flung cities from those days but.....

Fast forward to today with heavily policed speed limits and far more efficient and reliable engines and it is a complete misnomer.

Todays medium sized cars are as big as the 'big' old cars (Even the new Polo is as big as a relatively recent Golf 4) and have the same performance from far smaller and economical engines. Airline flights are much cheaper and frequent than they have ever been so fewer families do the big multi-day interstate journey

That is part of the reason the Australian car industry will close its doors very shortly, the Australian public no longer saw a big RWD as a necessity and preferred smaller cars, or the more ridiculous FWD SUV.

80% of Australian public roads are still dirt roads and there is a need a higher riding AWD vehicle but most city based people with SUV's have never ventured on a dirt road and most of the fashionable small SUV design reflect this. My standard Octavia has the same ground clearance as an AWD Mazda CX-3.

The Citigo/Up! are quite capable of long journeys here at legal speed limits, the reviews actually mentioned their highway capability and excellent suspension set up. It is just that people are set in their ways and prejudices and take some persuading of the capabilities of well designed modern small vehicles. There is also the ego thing of having a big powerful car, but then again if you can afford it and that is what you want then my opinion does not matter a jot.

To be fair travelling at relatively high speeds for long distances means there is not a lot of difference in consumption between a small or large car.

Around town though is a different story.

 

Edited 26 June, 2017 by Gerrycan

[Michaelski]

Hi Gerrycan,

That comprehensive explanation has the ring of total sense about it, & stirs (sick, sad & sorry) memories within me.

I have (according to SWMBO) always had more money than sense, even in the days when I was skint, but there was a (regretfully brief) period in my life when I was well-and-truly affluent.   Spending like a drunken sailor, I had 4 expensive Lexus in 5 years - when they were approaching either 20k, or 2 years old, I became worried (unhealthily worried) about how long they'd last, & shelled out for another one.  I learned sense eventually of course, & instead of simply lashing out for Lexus No. 5, I invested in a Diesel Volvo S80.     This, without actually thinking about it, I kept for 11 years, but I then took a long hard look at myself & my driving needs, & it was then that I down-sized to the Citigo - & what a sound, sensible decision that was.     Apart from the reduction in space, & all we really need is a bums' worth of space each (or 2 1/2 in the case of SWMBO), we don't miss the acceleration: the huge boot, or the top-end performance (& it could indeed get a wiggle on, when required).    In fact, many of the things that I'd shelled out mega bucks for as "extras" on the Wolwo (the ultra low profile tyres - that rattled the fillings in my teeth, the SOTA sound system - that I was too hard of hearing to appreciate: the suede seats - that didn't resist having ice cream dropped on them: the Diesel engine that rarely achieved more than 45 mpg - if one drove it as it begged to be driven) were either totally unnecessary, or actually came as standard (like the Sat Nav - which is light years more modern than the one that I'd shelled out muchas dinero for, & the heated seats) on the Citigo - with no road tax: minimum car insurance, 60+ mpg & a top speed that is still more than 50% of the legal limit, as matching accessories.  So, it's actually a no-brainer.   True, one cannot adopt the head-down, arse-up posture so beloved of the modern breed of red-line the engine until it begs for mercy young 'uns of today, but there's static speed cameras & Mobile Cash Machines (to the Power N) out there, simply waiting in hiding for their prey.

 

So, it took me many years to learn the lessons, but "eventually" I left the ranks of the unenlightened, and joined the great steaming unwashed masses of the "play it safe" Brigade.

 

The longest journey that I've done in the Citigo, was probably a round trip of some 500 miles - most of the way, "cruising" at 70-&-a-bit, & all on one tank.  I have to say that the noise levels were "slightly" higher than in the Wolwo, but against that, the  "purry" little modern petrol engine made less intrusive noise than a big, unsophisticated lump of Diesel, even when it was only spinning/lurching round at 1/4 of it's maximum.  Equally true, the seats in the Citigo aren't as comfy as the Wolwo (which is reputed to have the most comfy seats of any car) but they suited me, & even SMWBO (who isn't slow to suggest stopping for a coffee/wee - pointless suggesting that we filled up, as even after 150 miles, there was still 3/4's of a tank full) when her bum gets numb (or her bumb gets num) didn't complain.

So, horses for courses, or even hourses for corses.

Bestest

Mike

 

Edited 26 June, 2017 by Michaelski
incorrect spelling

[777boeingman]

Further to my post of June 2017, where I achieved a PID figure of 82.9 mpg over 321 miles.... I can now post an improvement !

 

during my final attempt at the 700+ challenge, I recorded an amazing 92.9 mpg over a distance of 172 miles.

 

92.9 mpg.....!

[Gerrycan]

On 12/10/2018 at 17:21, 777boeingman said:

Further to my post of June 2017, where I achieved a PID figure of 82.9 mpg over 321 miles.... I can now post an improvement !

 

during my final attempt at the 700+ challenge, I recorded an amazing 92.9 mpg over a distance of 172 miles.

 

92.9 mpg.....!

Inspirational!

[Snaefell]

Just filled up again today in a July 2016 Colours Citigo with the following.  34 469 miles in total using 2554 litres @ £2 841.  Giving an average mpg of 61.2.  I find if I drive below 2 500r/min, 60+ mpg is achievable.  Not much in the way of fun mind, but achievable all the same.  And all A or B roads, there aren't any dual carriageways or motorways in the Isle of Man.

Cheers...Snaefell.

[xman]

Just now, Snaefell said:

I find if I drive below 2 500r/min, 60+ mpg is achievable.  Not much in the way of fun mind, but achievable all the same.  

 

Surely its quicker to walk and less likely to fall asleep.....