1.2 TSI TIMING CHAIN recall!

[Citigopher]

One good thing about paying part of the bill is you will get a warranty on the work done - ie the engine (Think this may be 2 years) . If fixed for free you don't

 

That's interesting. Not heard that before. Is it based on some consumer law?

 

So when haggling over a not-my-fault repair cost with a dealer or UK main office, the best thing to do would be pay some paltry amount (say 5%) towards the repair, not push for a completely free one?

Edited 8 December, 2015 by Citigopher

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Warranty repairs are free. It's more related to on goodwill claim.

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Edited 8 December, 2015 by FLAPPERJACK7

[Rooted]

The Parts paid for will have the 2 Year Warranty.  (Part Payment, or a Warranty Company Payment gives you 2 Years Warranty on Parts.)

 

The VWG say the Warranty Work done is within the Manufacturers Warranty Period, and no extension.

That is until they have to 'Extend the Warranty' which they often had to do, reaching individual agreements.

 

Who ever does the Warranty Work has to Guarantee their work, 

so that comes into it, so VW / Skoda can not Authorise Warranty work 6 months or 2 days before a '3 Year Warranty expires' 

then say off you pop, all done.

They know the Outstanding Fundamental Design and manufacturing faults, and have for several years, 

they know the Upgrade that was required.

[bigjohn]

That's interesting. Not heard that before. Is it based on some consumer law?

 

So when haggling over a not-my-fault repair cost with a dealer or UK main office, the best thing to do would be pay some paltry amount (say 5%) towards the repair, not push for a completely free one?

 

From skoda.co.uk:- "All our parts and labour come with two years warranty too."

[stewmit69]

hi Guys,not really posted much on here but after some advise.. I am just about to purchase a 2011 Approved (main dealer)  Fabia 1.2 tsi (85) Elegance  43k .. full Skoda service history, have just found out about this problem ( thanks Briskoda users!! ) but unsure if it has had any remedial work done as regards to timing chain. (have not seen service book yet!) have a few questions in the hope that someone  Can shed the light on the problem.

 

1. how common is the timing chain issue are all 2009-2012 Models affected? or is it a random thing .are some models more prone than others ? and what can i check for (engine nos etc?).

2. have Skoda issued a TPI/TSB for this problem?

3. As this comes with full service history and unsure if had any of the work done, would i be able (if no work done) to hassle SUK for the chain to be Changed under the Assured Warranty?(if it was noisy that is) .

4. If work has not been done (As not deemed to be noisy) can you have the newer revised chain kit fitted and how much would this cost see prices of £700 is this about right ?(if this the case would argue with SUK to try and get discount) and which main dealers (midlands area) would you recommend .as still cheaper than new engine.

 

Sorry so many questions ..just trying to stop a problem developing or buying a duff car..

Thanks .

S

Edited 9 February, 2016 by stewmit69

[FLAPPERJACK7]

From my personal experience it's more the pre middle 2011 built engine's.

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Edited 9 February, 2016 by FLAPPERJACK7

[Rooted]

Ask the Skoda Dealer to print out the Service and any Warranty Work carried out that is on the System for the vehicle.

 

Or Skoda UK Customer Services can Email you the Warranty Information from the records of their paying.

 

 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

Edited 9 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Abominable]

I had my timing chain and tensioner replaced at 73,000 miles due to a prolonged rattle on cold start-up.

 

Does anyone know, now that I have the timing chain modification done, whether I should routinely change the timing chain from now on or does the modification negate the need to every change the chain again?

 

If it should be changed, at what interval should it be changed (i.e. every 70,000 miles or so)?

[chriscan]

Going back to the replacement engine being covered by a 2 year warranty, the full cost of the new gear box caused by the driveshaft coming off 3 months to the day after the new engine was fitted is being covered by the warranty. It's been with the garage for 10 days now and I hope to get it back today, with a full explanation of what happened.

[bigjohn]

Going back to the replacement engine being covered by a 2 year warranty, the full cost of the new gear box caused by the driveshaft coming off 3 months to the day after the new engine was fitted is being covered by the warranty. It's been with the garage for 10 days now and I hope to get it back today, with a full explanation of what happened.

 

Blimey,

 

That sounds like dealer fitter incompetence - sounds like a good outcome though

[Abominable]

I had my timing chain and tensioner replaced at 73,000 miles due to a prolonged rattle on cold start-up.

 

Does anyone know, now that I have the timing chain modification done, whether I should routinely change the timing chain from now on or does the modification negate the need to every change the chain again?

 

If it should be changed, at what interval should it be changed (i.e. every 70,000 miles or so)?

 

 

Anyone able to answer this for me?

[bigjohn]

The cam chains are designed to last the serviceable life of the engine so hopefully now that you have revised sprockets/chain/tensioner you shouldn't need to change it. Regular oil changes(not variable!!!) are really important though as is the correct fitment of the oil filter (so that the drain back valve isn't damaged). Obviously listen out for any noises but a brief noise on startup is normal and with your head poked under the bonnet the direct injection can rattle somewhat (also normal) 

 

I had experience of cam chains with the last proper 2.0/2.3 Saab engine a few years ago. Very regular oil changes - starship mileages possible :sun:  . However longer oil change intervals especially when the oil sump plug wasn't removed to drain- trouble ahead 

Edited 2 April, 2016 by bigjohn

[Abominable]

Great advise, thank you.

I do get a brief 'growl' on start-up, but, as you say, this is hopefully nothing to worry about. I also get 'clicking' sound on very cold mornings till the engine is warm, hopefully also nothing to be worried about.

I've also been doing 10,000 mile oil changes myself (never trusted the long service intervals) with 5W30 oil so fingers crossed for the starship enterprise mileages!

Hope the rest of the car lasts too....

[DensYeti]

My experience so far with this timing chain fault (Mar 2010 1.2 TSI S petrol Yeti.....bought 2014 with 20,000 miles on clock...from Skoda main dealer...SKODA approved sales car.  Has now, May 2016,  35,000 miles.  I drive gently.

The GOOD news......BUT.....the worse news!

Engine warning light on as yellow colour.  Car recovered to a main dealer VW/Skoda group.

The Skoda main dealer confirmed fault as timing chain/tensioner problem. (Marshall's of Barnstaple)

Skoda UK were not fantastically interested.  However after discussions and my pointing out that the timing chain problem was a known one and being able to quote the VAG Technical Product Information (TPI) that was apparently circulated to dealers the Skoda garage advised me that Skoda UK would provide the parts free and pay 60% of the labour.....I advised I was not happy with this as 40% was going to be around £300!  The garage, Marshall VW/Skoda, said they would cover that cost.

I picked up the car a few days later and drove the now quiet car the 30 or so miles home and did a further short,(about 14 miles) to local town and all ok.  My wife then took car shopping to local town and on the way home there was a sudden loss of power and the warning lights coming on.  Fortunately there was a lay-by virtually where this happened and she pulled over.  RAC came and without attempting to run the engine their diagnostic machine showed fault with N02 plug.  Plug removed and contacts on nose of plug seen to be battered flat.  Further looking down plughole revealed the sight of a shinny rod of metal which we believe to be the gudgeon pin in the conrod.......OH DEAR.....where is piston top???

Car now taken back to garage in Barnstaple (27 May).  It will be at least Tue 31 May before they may be able to look at it (bank holiday Monday). So only about 60 miles of gentle motoring and failure.

I may be a pessimist but am expecting further hassle as to who will be asked to pay for the further repair (new engine?).  I have said I would like to be present when the engine is opened up, but the garage say not allowed in workshop under HSE as their insurance would not cover me.  I just do not trust garages (past poor experiences)(sorry for the good ones out there).

Any advice re who to fight my possible case.....should I have an independent engineer present (who?) to be paid for by VAG?

 

I will update this sorry saga.

 

By the way the service desks, for VW and Skoda ( a few yards apart in the same building) said they were not acquainted with the TPI that has been quoted, or of any problem with timing chains/tensioners.

 

Also THE RAC HAVE NOT BEEN ADVISED BY VAG/SKODA THAT THE CAR SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN WHEN THE LIGHT APPEARS.  The RAC engineer that came to me said it was ok to drive it to a garage as it was only a yellow warning and not a red danger light!!!!  The RAC customer service people adamant that he was correct as they have not had information from VAG to not drive after yellow light on.

 

It is a good job I have played with cars, mainly vintage/PVT since able to drive and am a very sympathetic to car driver at age 71.( but this has not saved this current engine)

[DampDog]

I don't think it is a recall, but more of something that the service personnel check when the car comes in for service. I am not sure if the change is done to all cars of specific age, or only if they see symptoms of unhealthy cam chain. I have a Roomster 1.2 tsi that has been making a funny noise during cold starts, and when it went in for it's first maintenance at ~18000 miles the dealership notified me that this is an issue on my car, and that it will be fixed under warranty.

 

If that's the case even at that Skoda are a country mile better than VW. I run a Polo 1.2 TSi which I bought new in 2011, the car has only covered 18K miles and has a full VW service history with the supplying dealer. Other than a paint fault with was sorted under warranty the car has been trouble free. That said occasionally on start-up I can hear a rasp, which after a quick google looks like it is indicative of chain stretch. When I mentioned it they said it would not be checked as part of a normal service and would need to be booked in for investigation at my cost. I also motioned that that the tick-over had become slightly erratic. The reply to the tick-over query was we think there is a software-update that addresses that issue but the cost of an update and full diagnostic is £99.

 

Now I like my little Polo, But either the dealer or VW are taking the pishh. Car is out of warranty now, that said I still don't think customers should be picking up the bill for manufacturing faults/quality issues. It looks like VW(VAG) are simply playing dumb again over rubbish engine design. Maybe they like being taken to court by customers and paying out millions?? who knows?

Edited 29 May, 2016 by DampDog

[DampDog]

Anyone able to answer this for me?

 

You will need to view it in Chrome so you can use the translate function. But these are about the most detailed "timing chain" threads I can find. It's well worth a read.

 

http://www.polovw.it/foro/viewtopic.php?t=28554

 

http://www.polovw.it/foro/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=18592&start=1644

Edited 29 May, 2016 by DampDog

[DensYeti]

 

Ref post No 64;  The proof that you should not drive the 1.2 TSi with chain rattle!  The garage sent me this picture of bits found in the sump.  They have spoken to Skoda UK and explained that the engine write off was due to the timing chain problem.  Result is that Skoda have agreed to supply and pay for a new engine fit.

That still leaves me out of pocket for the £100+ for transporting Yeti to garage and the big inconvenience of being without the every day car now totalling about two weeks.  Good job I have a classic car I can be using for essential journeys in very rural Devon.  Hope to have Yeti back by tomorow.

[DensYeti]

[ernieb]

 

 

Ref post No 64;  The proof that you should not drive the 1.2 TSi with chain rattle!  The garage sent me this picture of bits found in the sump.  They have spoken to Skoda UK and explained that the engine write off was due to the timing chain problem.  Result is that Skoda have agreed to supply and pay for a new engine fit.

That still leaves me out of pocket for the £100+ for transporting Yeti to garage and the big inconvenience of being without the every day car now totalling about two weeks.  Good job I have a classic car I can be using for essential journeys in very rural Devon.  Hope to have Yeti back by tomorow.

That seems a pretty good result to me, your never going to get it all. I guess they 'could' have given you a loan car for the duration of the fix once Skoda UK agreed to supply and fit.

Edited 6 June, 2016 by ernieb

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Sounds like a good result. A noise is a indication of something usually mechanical is about to fail IMHO.

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[Guernboy]

Guess what... 38,000 miles and timing chain problem. Car in the garage now waiting to be looked at but garage think it is the timing chain and has possibly caused valve damage. Car was running fine and always had a loud rattle at start up but sounded like exhaust more than engine. Dealer claims he has not seen this before. I live on Guernsey which has loads of yeti 1.2 running around and I mean loads. Max speed limit over here is 35 mph so car not pushed hard.

 

Had the coil leads replaced after 18 months due to failure which dealer said he had never seen before. Yeti 1.2tsi se plus from June 2011. 

 

I woul appreciate any help on the fight I may have with Skoda over this fault. I would love to have history from anybody with similar issue.

 

Thanks for any help

[DampDog]

I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they may not have seen one fail before, though I don't consider it likely. It might be worth pointing out that if this is something that never happens then why do they have part numbers for the upgraded parts that fail????

 

Anyway good luck with getting it resolved.

 

My Polo 1.2 Tsi (2011) does occasionally make a little raspy noise on start up from cold. It's only covered 21,000 miles as of yet. I'm toying with the idea of downsizing to a CitiGo at some point this year. Either that or bite the bullet and say up to have the chain done, just incase it decides to fail.

[DensYeti]

Guernboy.  What year was your Yeti 1.2???

Have a look back through this topic and same topic in the yeti owners club forum and you will see:

1. Between 2009 and late 2011 the timing chain design for those engines was found to be too week and would stretch. (item not fit for purpose). The problem was admitted by senior company engineers and published in a German magazine, Auto Bild, in 2012.

2. A new stronger chain with associated new sprockets for cam and crank were designed and fitted. (also with chain guides to prevent stretched chains jumping cogs).

3. A Technical Product Information was sent out by VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) Transaction No. 2026513/5 release date 01 Oct 2012.  You may find your dealer denies any knowledge of this item.....mine did but when I produced a copy there was an embarrassed look. Don't believe they know nothing about the problem.

4. It was a worldwide problem and VAG are well aware of the problem and Skoda are also.

5. They should have fitted a new design chain before damage was caused by chain failure.  In the early days a good dealer MAY have changed a chain but may have fitted a replacement which though new was one of the old bad designs!!!!!

6. The Guardian took up one case in May 2016 of an engine failure after 43,000 miles where Skoda were going to only offer a 20% contribution towards the £4,793 repair bill.  Skoda were persuaded to take a second look and agreed to fully cover the cost of repair.

7. My 2010 Yeti, at 35,000 miles, developed a rattle and became very difficult to start.  The dealer checked and diagnosed chain stretch and timing out by 2 teeth.  Chain was replaced at their expense (after first trying to get away with the old story.....never heard of this problem...until I showed them a copy of the TPI and my insisting I would not be contributing towards a failure due to known faulty design item).  50 miles later the engine came to a stop and was found to be wrecked.  They fitted a new engine at their cost (but yet again having tried on saying Skoda UK would only pay part......but then realising I knew the full story.)

8.  If you seem to be getting nowhere then we now have the Motoring  Ombudsman  Who I am sure would back your case for a free new engine fit.

9. Look back at my story in both forums under Den's Yeti.  Attached is various bits of info on the problem.

 

Dennis

 

Yeti timing chain rattle.pages

[Guernboy]

23 hours ago, DensYeti said:

Guernboy.  What year was your Yeti 1.2???

Have a look back through this topic and same topic in the yeti owners club forum and you will see:

1. Between 2009 and late 2011 the timing chain design for those engines was found to be too week and would stretch. (item not fit for purpose). The problem was admitted by senior company engineers and published in a German magazine, Auto Bild, in 2012.

2. A new stronger chain with associated new sprockets for cam and crank were designed and fitted. (also with chain guides to prevent stretched chains jumping cogs).

3. A Technical Product Information was sent out by VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) Transaction No. 2026513/5 release date 01 Oct 2012.  You may find your dealer denies any knowledge of this item.....mine did but when I produced a copy there was an embarrassed look. Don't believe they know nothing about the problem.

4. It was a worldwide problem and VAG are well aware of the problem and Skoda are also.

5. They should have fitted a new design chain before damage was caused by chain failure.  In the early days a good dealer MAY have changed a chain but may have fitted a replacement which though new was one of the old bad designs!!!!!

6. The Guardian took up one case in May 2016 of an engine failure after 43,000 miles where Skoda were going to only offer a 20% contribution towards the £4,793 repair bill.  Skoda were persuaded to take a second look and agreed to fully cover the cost of repair.

7. My 2010 Yeti, at 35,000 miles, developed a rattle and became very difficult to start.  The dealer checked and diagnosed chain stretch and timing out by 2 teeth.  Chain was replaced at their expense (after first trying to get away with the old story.....never heard of this problem...until I showed them a copy of the TPI and my insisting I would not be contributing towards a failure due to known faulty design item).  50 miles later the engine came to a stop and was found to be wrecked.  They fitted a new engine at their cost (but yet again having tried on saying Skoda UK would only pay part......but then realising I knew the full story.)

8.  If you seem to be getting nowhere then we now have the Motoring  Ombudsman  Who I am sure would back your case for a free new engine fit.

9. Look back at my story in both forums under Den's Yeti.  Attached is various bits of info on the problem.

 

Dennis

 

Yeti timing chain rattle.pages

 

On 15 March 2017 at 08:20, Guernboy said:

Guess what... 38,000 miles and timing chain problem. Car in the garage now waiting to be looked at but garage think it is the timing chain and has possibly caused valve damage. Car was running fine and always had a loud rattle at start up but sounded like exhaust more than engine. Dealer claims he has not seen this before. I live on Guernsey which has loads of yeti 1.2 running around and I mean loads. Max speed limit over here is 35 mph so car not pushed hard.

 

Had the coil leads replaced after 18 months due to failure which dealer said he had never seen before. Yeti 1.2tsi se plus from June 2011. 

 

I woul appreciate any help on the fight I may have with Skoda over this fault. I would love to have history from anybody with similar issue.

 

Thanks for any help

I have now had the bad news back from the garage. The tensioner has collapsed and has left severe engine damage. The dealer has spoken with Skoda and at first they agreed to replace the engine with a 70% contribution leaving me with a bill for £750. However... 24 hours after the dealer being told by Skoda that the service history was fine, they have now come back and said that due to the car missing a service by 2000 miles or a few months, that the factory will now not contribute anything.

 

Sick to the teeth I have to say with this as you can imagine.

 

The Yeti is a June 2011 model and having spoken to Skoda uk, they deny that any problem exists with the chain or tensioner. I pointed out that this problem has been discussed on many forums and indeed by the Guardian newspaper but alas the response was not favorable and dismissive. 

 

[Llanigraham]

Whilst I'm sorry this has happened, I'm not surprised at their response if you have missed a service by that distance/time. Goes to prove how important it is keeping to their recommendations.