1.8 TSI - excessive oil consumption

[Kenny R]

Well said that man and that's exactly how I got to feel in the end not only for my own experience but the experience of others on the net and some who work with me, they tell you a modded oil pump was fitted to the 2.0 TDi engines after 2006 but I know of at least two 57 plate Passats that still died due to the pump failure and both had chassis numbers that said they were modded cars, this was my main reason for getting rid of mine as it seems to happen mostly around 75k and mine wasn't far off that mileage,

Anyone who doesn't know about this have a dip into the Superb 1 section and you'll find members who suffered this in 06-08 PD engined cars, one guy I knew had it fail twice in his Superb, the first time it happened he was able to avoid instant death of the engine, the second time we never saw the car again.

Why are you banging on on how carp Skoda Tdi engines are on a topic on petrol engines?. Every one of you comments on here appear to slag off Skoda, VAG cars and members on here.Now on my ignore list as your comments are meaningless/pointless on a Skoda forum.

[Supurbia]

Why are you banging on on how carp Skoda Tdi engines are on a topic on petrol engines?. Every one of you comments on here appear to slag off Skoda, VAG cars and members on here.Now on my ignore list as your comments are meaningless/pointless on a Skoda forum.

NOT Skoda, VAG 2.0 PD's

Do some finding out and see what a time bomb that lump really is,

I've not said anything bad of the CR's

I've not really said anything bad about any member, all I've said is be careful which engine you choose and don't post inaccurate mpg's

Now if that's not allowed please say so now, but the world I live in says be honest about things, these new generation cars are nowhere near the quality of the older pre 05 cars, as there are two 1.8 TSi owners on here right now with engines in pieces it shows there is obviously a problem with them doesn't it, common denominator as to why I mentioned the PD engine on a petrol thread is the fact they aren't any good, my PD drank 1L of oil every 2000 miles, VAG say 1L to 800 miles is within tollerance, well not in my book it ain't and the fact they think that's ok is a good enough reason for me to not want another, on the other hand my 04 1.9 PD used 0.5L per 10k, that's what I call acceptable,

Anyway you'll learn, and if you think I'm lying PM a member called Rotodiesel and ask him about things, the guy is an engineer btw and knows his stuff, and don't p him off as you may well need his help some time in the future.

[sevish]

Hi,

Just an update.

The car went into my local dealer (Grey Gables) who carried checked out the PCV system and then did an oil consumption test, which, as expected, did show that the car was using excessive oil.

Following correspondance with Skoda they recommended that the pistons be changed. Skoda have agreed to pay half the costs (total cost circa £2.5k).

The car will be going in next week.

Thumbs up to Grey Gables, who have been excellent throughout, as usual.

Thanks,

Justin.

 

I've had the exact same problem with my Skoda Superb 2010.

High oil consumption verified by Skoda after doing consumption tests.

 

They also suggested replacing the pistons and participate in half the costs (for the parts only) - seems like a known, reoccurring problem.

 

Justin - Can you please update now that some time has passed if this fix has indeed solved the problem?

 

I'm considering whether or not to pay the high cost or just continue to to fill up more oil once every 1000km which will be much cheaper but quite a burden.

 

Thanks in advance.

[DGW]

Have you seen the thread below?

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

[sevish]

Thanks for the link Denis.

Most of the problems there are not related to high oil consumption.

Hopefully the problem was solved for Justin and therefore he didn't bother to update this thread.

[sony]

Hi Justincombi or any other helpful soul, 

 

do you happen to have the TSB on the recommendation of changing piston ring when there's excessive high engine oil comsumption? 

[DGW]

TPI 2027920/1 dated 05-Jan-2012 deals with 'Engine oil consumption exceeding the standard set by the manufacturer.   

 

Customer statement / workshop findings

 

The engine oil consumption is higher than the standard specified by the manufacturer, see the Owner's Manual.

 

Technical background

 

Engine parts exposed to high heat load, influenced also by unfavourable driving profile, may cause increased engine oil consumption.

 

Production change

 

Optimized piston rings and pistons.

 

Measure

 

Verifying increased engine oil consumption

 

Please, verify the oil consumption using the steps according to the diagnostic device VAS; if the VAS does not contain a test programme, proceed according to the Service information 2027572.  The report on the result of the oil consumption test must always be attached to the parts replaced; please file a copy together with the order.

 

Repair

 

If the engine oil consumption claimed has been verified as prescribed and found higher than the standard specified by the manufacturer, replace the set of complete pistons as well as the set of connecting rods.

..............

 

Parts information

 

Piston complete:  06H 107 065 DF

1 set: connecting rods:  06J 198 401 H.

 

------------------------------

 

TPI 2027572/2 mentioned above stresses that, before starting any works, the dealer must remind the customer that costs are arising from verifying and analyzing his claim/ the fault claimed.  If the claim is qualified as an unjustified one, the customer will have to reimburse the necessary costs resulting from the weight test examining the engine oil consumption.  There is plenty of informed discussion in the Fabia II forum about the oil test in the context of the twin charger Fabia II vRS 1.4TSI.

[JustinCombi]

Sorry for the much delayed update!

 

The car was returned, and I didn't have to pay any more money. Dealer refused to admit that they had caused the timing chain slip, but waived the payment to rectify it out of courtesy

 

The car ran faultlessly for another 7k, with no use of oil at all. The car was then sold on. Replacement was a Mazda 6, which has been utterly fault free for 45k. 

 

Coupled with the VW (Scirocco R) that had head gasket failure at 30k and the ****poor service we received from VW, I sadly have little faith in VAG engines anymore, which is a shame as otherwise my Skoda experience was, well, superb!

 

Regards,

Justin.

 

 

 

[safari hunter]

No recent posts to reply so I just want to update the oil consumption saga with my recent experience.

For long time when using Castrol Edge FST 5W30 (1) I noticed a normal amount of oil to top the engine < 400 ml up to 10-12k km before the warning light and another 200 ml required before 15k km maintenance interval. Last year, at 132K km I cold not find the above mentioned oil and I start to use Castrol Edge 5W30 Titanium FST Long Life (2) and the oil consumption started to increase up to 300 - 400 ml at every 1000 km that still is situated below the maximum amount specified by the manufacturer. After 8000 km and 4 liters of oil consumed I analyzed the option to change Castrol with Motul or Liqui Molly but not very much convinced about the outcome. Finally I decided based on Skoda technicians recommendation to use Castrol Edge 5W40 Titanium FST / GM Dexos 2 (3). After only 800 km oil level is unchanged on the dipstick however I feel that engine runs OK but not with a fast response as it was on 5W30. I have the sensation of noticeable less responsive engine with some little increase of fuel consumption outside the city. Together with Skoda technicians we inspect the engine for any oil leak and I was extremely pleased to find all the surfaces clean, including turbo and PCV. I will let the engine to use 5W40 considering the heat from summer season and I shall return to use Edge 5W30 but not the Long Life type. Engine code CDAA manufactured on 08/May/2010, confirmed by Audi to have the updated chain tensioner but I need to replace the oil pump that was not synchronized with G266 oil level sensor therefore generating false oil level alarms. 

So far car runs great to my satisfaction and I intend to keep it longer.

1.

2. 

3.     

 

 

Edited 2 March, 2017 by safari hunter

[rayx]

On 2. 3. 2017 at 19:38, safari hunter said:

Engine code CDAA manufactured on 08/May/2010, confirmed by Audi to have the updated chain tensioner

Be ensured their confirmation is wrong on condition it was not replaced by service partner already and there is a notice in service history. K tensioner first appeared in March 2012 (previous N, T and AB versions fails), modified chains yet later ...

Edited 6 March, 2017 by rayx

[safari hunter]

You might be right, or partially correct. When I checked the engine in Skoda workshop on 17 October 2010, the request was submitted to Audi. Audi decided to replace the oil pump and confirm to have installed updated chain tensioner, and they also installed a new

software that changed the icons and notifications, especially for low oil level warning.

No other problems observed so far and on September 2016 I asked for an on-line check and there were no notifications and updates for my vehicle.  

 

Edited 6 March, 2017 by safari hunter

[rayx]

Also, service done on 2010 can´t fit the only trouble free tensioner 06K109467K as it appeared on 2013 ... All previous tensioners 06H109467 with suffix either N, T or AB can fail without a warning ... this is valid for 2.0TSI too as they are both EA888 base.

 

Few details here

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102001

 

the same with chains, new disigned parts are available aprox.

06K109158AA from 11.2013
06K109158AD from 9.2014

 

[safari hunter]

Thank you for sharing this information with me and now I need to go back to reading phase. No further comments.

[rayx]

11 hours ago, rayx said:

the only trouble free tensioner 06K109467K as it appeared on 2013

Sorry, wrong year, as you can notice in text above, first appeared in 2012, but this make no change in the result for you, I recommend to all to let check their tensioners to minimise risk, in Octavia II is a topic with not nice list of damaged engines because of that ...

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

 

[safari hunter]

Just an update to the issue.

Oil consumption still remain high up to 500 ml / 1300 - 1500 km, and I decided to add some oil additive as

shown under. Slightly decreased the consumption to 250 - 300 ml oil to the same distance.

Next step will a compression test to see the cylinders condition.

As I read there is no major improvement if I replace the piston rings, so I will try to use it as it is as long

as possible.

Luckily the average fuel consumption now lowered by 0.5 litter / 100 km just to cover the costs of oil consumption. 

 

 

 

Edited 22 April, 2017 by safari hunter

[andrehj]

On 22-4-2017 at 20:05, safari hunter said:

As I read there is no major improvement if I replace the piston rings, so I will try to use it as it is as long as possible.

Where did you read that? I've been following this problem for years now (on several forums and other media), and all experts agree on one thing: The only thing that can solve the oil consumption of an 1.8/2.0 TSI engine that is already consuming too much oil is to replace the piston rings by the new versions. Depending on how that is done, you also need to replace the pistons (and depending on your present parts, also the connecting rods).

So just have your pistons overhauled, and enjoy your TSI for many more years and miles.

Edited 26 April, 2017 by andrehj

[safari hunter]

Andrehj @ if you have read on forums for years means that you have noticed 2 distinct groups of users:

- those who replace the pistons / piston rings / con rods so on and

- and those who's engine runs quite fine with an excessive oil consumption up to a point where economically is not feasible to  replace any parts

unless a catastrophic failure, mainly the chain tensioner slip

As per my readings, mainly on VAG tsfi forums, users not experts, because  I never encounter any expert opinion even on SAE website , agree that after some reasonable mileage, if you replace the piston rings, cylinders need to be honed.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2734647-Engine-rebuild-question-Piston-Rings

Till the wear of the cylinders accommodate the new rings there will be some likely issues to encounter:

- potentially lower compression ratio due to the space from the upper ring and cylinder surface

- still abnormal oil burned according to our perception not to user manual 0.5 l / 1000 km.

- increased positive crankcase pressure.

Also I read that engine cylinders forging treatment do not allow any honing, therefore some users considered a complete engine replacement and this is not entirely covered by manufacturer, not even in a reasonable proportion according to the car mileage.

Some users complained about the engine noise or erratic running with or without power lose associated with the turbocharger effectiveness.

Some users replaced the pistons set and for 7k mile enjoyed a good quality repair but feared that the symptoms might reaper and sold the vehicle and therefore no further observations could be made on the success of the experts recommendations that you mention.

I believe we need to agree that what you just expressed could work just fine in theory but confronted with the practical reality as it is observed by users.

My opinion.    

 

 

Edited 27 April, 2017 by safari hunter

[rayx]

I can fully agree with you but only with the last sentence "My opinion" ... I really do not understand, why you complicate such simple thing, we do not speak here about worn engines with excessive plays, we speak about blocked oil scrapping rings which leads to abnormal oil consumption... When oil scraping ring, always the most bottom one on piston stops doing its work properly, there is no other solution then replace the ring or ring+piston soon before any damage to cylinder wall etc. appears. Any prolonged usage of engine consuming more than 0,5l oil per 1000km (I personaly believe safe limit is only up to 0,2l) will mean damage to engine which can´t be salvaged by simple rings/pistons swap as other damage on engine can occur. Yes, my personal opinion too, everyone has the right of free will.

Edited 27 April, 2017 by rayx

[andrehj]

@rayx: Excellent summary! It is not more complicated than that. The only statement that can be added is that if you keep driving for too long with high oil consumption (over 1 liter / 1000 km) it usually ends in an engine failure requiring a completely new engine block.

[ericworrall]

RAYX and andrehj, Thanks for your clear observations which I read with a very heavy heart!. My 2011 Octavia 1.8TSI, owned from new, is now using around 1 litre every 500km. My local Skoda dealer has quoted c. £3,500 to replace the pistons, rings and con rods, indicating that this will cure the problem and give my car years more life. I was about to do this, but now I must infer from your comments that this may just be throwing good money after bad. Does anyone know if anyone has been able to get Skoda to cough up and remedy what appears to be very shoddy engine design? If the chances of this are minuscule, then it seems I must replace the car very quickly.

[rayx]

Hi, I am afraid no chance to get from Skoda/VAG anything now, they will tell you 6 years has passed ... What is the mileage done and have you full service history only by the Skoda dealer? But I guess they are not willing to give you "Kulanz" as a gesture of goodwill, lot of written here about it.

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?do=findComment&comment=4836242

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/439499-smoking/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/419089-yeti-burning-oil-should-pistons-and-rods-be-replaced-as-well-as-piston-rings/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/434854-help-skoda-yeti-using-too-much-oil/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/406610-yeti-18tsi-burning-oil-–-and-now-needs-a-new-engine/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/426100-superb-oil-consumption/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/428833-2011-superb-tsi-18-4x4-advice/

 

Can you check production date on the label sticked on upper timming cover? If it is produced before 31st May 2011 (including), engine serial number 212244, then you have most problematic pistons/ring and 21mm pins. When later, you are already on 23mm pins. As official way to fix it only plans with 23mm pins, when you are on 21mm, that means new conrods too. But, there is a way to avoid new conrods, you can use pistons from BZB engine (either OE parts from VAG or aftermarket parts from KolbenSchmidt, which about 1/2 price of OE) what is 1st generation of these EA888 engines and then you do not need the conrods to exchange. But yes, still expensive rework on already 7 years old car (by my opinion still young, but automotive industry thinks something else ...)

Well, really very hard to advice anything How long do you have such high oil consumption? When you drove many miles with oil usage higher then 0,2litre per 621miles/1000km, that is not good for anything and I would rather not spend any money more on that (silly value up to 0,5litre allowed per 621miles I believe is wrong). When you think not many miles with oil drinker done, good rework could be still a way.

[rorozsa1]

I have Superb 1.8 TSI from 2012, currently 142 000 km. Just started the phenomena of excessive oil consumption. 9000km around 3 liter Castrol 5w-40. The engine code is : CDAA.

I am planning to sell it , don't want to bother with piston replacements  etc...

Does anybody knows which engine code has the improved pistons etc..?

 

Thanks Roland

Edited 12 February, 2018 by rorozsa1

[andrehj]

Yes, the 1.8 and 2.0 TSI engines of the S3. They also have combined direct and indirect injection, to reduce the carbon built-up on the inlet valves and many other improvements.

[Jamsco]

This thread has been very useful.  My 2011 Superb 1.8 TSI SE (73000 miles) began using more oil about 6 months ago but it was manageable.  However, in the last month I was topping up every 250 miles.  I do around 350 miles a week so this was becoming a real pain.  I kind of new this was coming having read these threads sometime ago.  Having read the prices people were paying to get the problem sorted at dealers I decided I didn't want to invest that kind of money and so took it to two independent garages.  Both said piston rings etc. but as this work would take some time and they couldn't say for sure it was the issue, both declined the work recommending I get rid of the car.  So, my immaculate Superb is gone.  It'll be missed but...  2015 Superb 2.0 TDI Elegance will be with me next week!!!

Thank you to all for the information given on here.  I think it has likely saved me a lot of hassle and money.

[safari hunter]

Looking back over my shoulder I could see what I said wrong and what was right about 1.8 TSFi excessive oil consumption.

First of all ADREHJ and RAYX pls have my apologies for contradictory opinion when you mentioned that is a must to replace the pistons and rings to control the engine damage beyond the reasonable repair point. 

Now my ODO show 168K km and today I started to repair my CDAA engine after the consumption level reached a staggering 1liter / 1000 km.

Initial findings :

(1) cylinder 1 (next to timing chain) showed large deposits of burned oil than 2,3,4 and spark plug (replaced 8K before - Iridium Denso VK20)  having melted central electrode.

Engine was running OK but showed subtle signs of hesitation when lower rpm (1500 - 2000) especially when shifting.

(2) timing chain enlarged significant 

(3) water pump cracked with leaking signs (up to 500 ml / year)

(4) clutch with burnout signs on pressure plate and disk worn out at max. limit (no slipping detected)

Tomorrow mechanics will remove the cylinder head and more news while the repair unfold.

First day conclusion: excessive oil amount that remain in the combustion chamber have the tendency to increase the burning temperature that lead to spark plug electrodes meltdown  and this start a chain reaction that will affect the engine functionality and its integrity so repair should be initiated when oil consumption exceed 500 ml / 1000 km.

 

 

 

 

    

Edited 11 June, 2018 by safari hunter