Hi!

Parking brakes on this car was far from great already when me and my wife bought it. Now, it's close to dead. If i use all force and pull the lever to the very very highest click I can possible reach, then I will have some (!) resistence when I try to drive, but I can still drive. Today I jacked the rear up and removed one of the rear tires. With a hammer and a screwdriver I managed to remove the rusty cap in the middle of the brake drum. I guess I will need to remove that metal clipisch and the stuff under it to be able to remove ½ the drum and see the actual condition of the brake shoes? It looked like a small puzzle so I did not dare to move further, but I took a photo of the beast.

Also, I removed the plastic cover on the brake lever. The wires are really not equally adjusted. It looks really messy, the "equality plate" is more or less oblique. Since it could not possible get any worse than right now, perhaps I could dare take a wrench and twist it some?

How do you guys think I should proceed?

Any input would be much appreciated!

ok, first before you go dismantling the rear wheel bearing, try adjusting the wedge keys on the rear brake shoes, you can do it by using a screwdriver through one of wheel bolt holes in the drum, they are supposed to self adjust but they sometimes need a little help, I'd bet the drums and shoes are fine even if they are the factory original items so there's no need to disturb them

threre is a guide on here somewhere that explains how to do it. I'll see if i can find it.

If you want to do a really good job, you will have to take out brake drums. Because right now, by the looks of it, I bet everybody is wondering how did it pass last MOT.

Here is a list of things you should consider:

- check hand brake cables routing and status (well fastened, no cracks, no excessive rust, free movement of steel core)

- cable ends should be at same level (check fasteners), nuts screwed same number of threads

- taking out brake drums is very easy if you raise the little wedge TeflonTom is talking about; the only tricky part is how much you torque the bearing nut at installation.

Take photos along, work one wheel at a time, avoid dropping parts on dirt.

PS: hand brake should lock completely rear wheels at 5th tooth or so pulling hard the handle and the car should not be able to move in 1st gear.

Edited 23 June, 201311 yr by adurer

Is it me or does the left hand cable look like it's not returning at all when the brake's released and does it look like it has nowhere to go anyway when it is pulled on?

Big thanks to all of you.

I really appreciate your help, guys.

@ TeflonTom: Me and my wife will try to reach the key wedge through the bolt holes later on today.

@ adurer: We'll probably try and release at least the left rear wheel drum, since it seems we could have a wire issue.

@ Red Studio: I most definitely agree. The wire may have snapped from the left drum?

Anyway, we'll have a look later on today. I'll post more photos.

Well, now we've been out on the parking lot. Jacked the rear, and ran a test. I pulled the parking brake lever up to the absolute maximum number of clicks, then walked around the car and tried moving them. Like suspected, the left rear wheel was not locked at all. I could spin it freely. In my novice expertise, hunch tells me that the wire has somehow slipped completely. If I'm lucky, it may just have slipped of, and I could be able to reattach it on the drum. If I'm not so fortunate, the wire has snapped. I wanted to get under the drum to inspect things, a task that I found to be much easier said than done.

I have the Haynes manual, and according to illustrations, the wedge key that should be lifted is in the upper right of the drum. I couldn't sense it though. I also sprayed a ****load of a cheap 5-56 equivalent into all of the four bolt holes, since it was badly rusted. Also, I found that the nut that holds the outer bearings was so loosely fastened so that I could easily unscrew it just using my fingers. It was very(!) greasy, too. Felt like lithium grease. However, I just couldn't get the drum off. After more than an hour I gave up. Any hints? If anyone has a video clip showing how they lift the wedge key using a screwdriver it would be the ultimate, heh. Anyways, perhaps my screwdriver was too fat. I used a 5.5 mm slotted Kamasa screwdriver. It didn't give me too much room. Anyways. I'd be much thankful for any helping clue here.

The wheel bearing outer nut is normally only finger tight, if it's too tight the bearing will bind up, it's only the top right for the wedge key on the left hand brake, it's top left on the right hand brake ( mirror image)

Rear left wheel - where to stick screwdriver

Rear left wheel - what you push up inside (see arrow)

i suggest that you do whatever it takes to get the drum off and see what is going on inside, rather than just trying to "adjust".What part of the country are you situated ? there may be a "member" close by who could take a look at this for you.

I've seen handbrake Bowden cable sheaths collapse on other makes, which could give these symptoms if only the LH cable has collapsed. Like with a broken cable you'd need a replacement in this case, but you only need to examine the outer to see if it's compressing when your good lady applies the HB.

 @*:

Hello again guys. Big thanks for all ideas and suggestions. I've been busy so the project has been on hold. However, today I jacked the car and literally went all in on the drum. Finally, using the back of a hammer, I managed to bend it loose. The wedge key won't move, I can't see where the wire is connected, and it's really dirty in there. I'm comparing to adurer's photos, and mine looks like a mess, in comparison. I filmed a short clip. Now, I don't know what to do next.

 

 

@tibsy:

I finally made it. The drum went off! Anyways, I'm not even located in the UK. If I had been, that piece of community helping hand would have been fantastic. Cheers!

 

@adurer:

Big thanks for the photos. They were fantastic. Also, like I said, I'm not even from England, but our equivalent to the MOT will probably not be exactly thrilled about the handbrake malfunction neither. So, I hope I'll manage to fix this, some way.

 

The good news is the left rear brake can be fixed.

The bad news is the car didn't brake with rear wheels in ages. Plus you'll need new brake shoes, probably new handbrake cables too. You change them in pairs.

 

So anyway, the plan is this:

- remove all parts

- clean everything with brake cleaner

- remove all rust with sand paper

- grease all parts with a thin layer of lithium grease, except the inside of drum and shoes, of course

 

I can post relevant pages from the factory service manual. I have them in ENglish, CZech, and RUssian. Which one do you prefer?

 

PS: you won't die breathing brake dust. Roads are more dangerous, especially when you brake only with front wheels.

Edited 14 July, 201311 yr by adurer

From photos,I'd suggest that Fabia rear setup is modelled on felicia .That being so , one fail point on the rear brakes is the rivot pivot pont, which seizes, and needs a bit of lubricant and TLC. I had this on a furby-i just hammered drum off with the bits and lubricated and TLC. aND REFITTED ALL BITS WITH LUBRICATION .

Lubricating that rivet is his last worry having those paper thin shoes...

He'll get a new lever with the new shoes. Even better, instead of cleaning that mess I would buy the rear brake kit. We're talking about safety here.

 

 

Guys, I really appreciate all your effort in this. Especially @adurer, who've been providing great illustrations. Now, I'll tell you an up to date on this matter. It turned out the brake wire was actually not attached to the left rear brake drum. I managed top attach it, then sprayed everything but the hub with brake cleaner, followed by some  all-round (WD40 similar) spray to get the more or less stuck hard-moved mechanism to move a bit more freely. Managed to get the handbrake equality plate to act more normal, but the brakes are still really bad.

 

However. It was just the other day I thought to myself (and my wife) that I really would like to see how it looks when the so called wheel cylinder is working, i.e. pressing it's sides out. If it causes more or less or the same amount of pressure on the brake shoes. You feel my idea here. So, anyways, we removed the drum and all bearings (I've started to know this procedure inside out). Then, we made the ugly discovery that the wheel cylinder is leaking. It's where the dust boot (gaiter) is on the cylinder, you know.

 

This was indeed nasty news. I've read that I am recommended changing wheel cylinders in pairs. Is this _really_ necessary on life or death? I'm a bit of a cheap ******, and right now all I really want is the system to get a closed braking fluid system, i.e. stop the leak. I would just like to know if there are some (like) _major_ concerns with just changing one wheel cylinder? I'm having the Swedish correspondence to MOT soon (I have until 31 September) and would really just get it to pass there.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWkggFOWY80

 

Oh, I saw this great video on changing the wheel cylinder, which I suppose is quite the same on the Felly. It doesn't seem too hard. However, I'm a bit nervous about the part that involves "bleeding the brakes". I've never done this, and it seems like quite a project, that I understand that I will need to do after changing the wheel cylinder. Do I need  to bleed every wheel even though I'm just changing one wheel cylinder? Oh, of course I must. Snap, I will keep you guys updated. I would be much thankful on any further advice.

 

Oh, I actually visited a local garage and showed the same photos that I posted in this thread. The guy said that they would not do anything else but change everything, and taken you did stuff on each side, the cost would land on around 5000 SEK (~500 GBP). It's like more than the car is worth, so I'm _never_ doing that. If I manage to fail completely on this [really not so complicated] DIY project, I'm turning this baby down in the graveyard.

 

Cheers!

gewstarr,

All Felicia owners that I know are very happy with low maintenance and repair costs involved. But if there's something you don't want to be cheap at... that would be BRAKES and STEERING. I recommend changing both brake cylinders. Also a very important maintenance job, often overlooked, is replacing entire brake fluid every 2 years. Something tells me yours looks like mud.

 

The video you inserted shows how mechanics make a **** poor job in a hurry and pretend obscene cash. I wish see him do same bad job on HIS car. That's why I do all repairs by myself.

 

About bleeding brakes, it's piece of cake, especially because you have a helper. There are tons of videos on youtube showing that. Bleeding order is: rear right, rear left, front right, front left.

Ok, brake jobs that need the "rule of pairs":-

1. Changing pads/shoes
2. Changing discs or drums. This also needs new pads or shoes because the old ones won't bed to the new metal.

You do not need to change brake calipers, wheel cylinders (drums only), rigid brake lines or handbrake cables in pairs.

 

You should always change brake hoses as vehicle sets.

You do not need to change brake calipers, wheel cylinders (drums only), rigid brake lines or handbrake cables in pairs.

That's a bad advice. You're talking about a very generic theory. In real life, common sense tells us that if one brake cylinder failed, its twin can't be too far from failure (corrosion, old gasket, old fluid, dirt, etc). Being a cheap fix and knowing you don't have to play with safety, the only good advice is to change both. Or you can gamble with your life and other people's life who will have the misfortune to be around.

Are you saying the garage are asking £500 to change two wheel cylinders? My advice would be don't go there. I don't know the going rate for a Felicia wheel cylinder but they can't be that much. Not that hard a job either. If you've already had the drums off you're half way there. And once you've done one side the other side will be even easier.

A quick look on eBay shows them between £4 and £15. Its really not worth only doing one.

For bleeding the brakes there are several very simple kits on the market to help; just remember to keep the fluid level in the reservoir above the "Min" line to avoid damaging the master cylinder. When I did it last week, this equated to about 20 full depressions of the brake pedal (from the "Full" line).

 

Someone on another thread stated the Eeezebleed kit didnt fit the Felly, this is not true, just use the smaller of the two holes, it fits fine.

yes, "gunsons eezibleed" makes it a very quick and easy job to do-

 

 - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUNSONS-EEZIBLEED-EASYBLEED-Brake-Clutch-Fluid-Pedal-Bleeding-Systems-Ford-VW-/321071917486#vi-content

Edited 14 August, 201311 yr by tibsy

The tube on the current eezibleed is rather short, I remember my last one (over 20 years ago), being long enough for the bottle to rest on the ground; this time around, the bottle was suspended in mid air.

 

BTW, the brake fluid I changed was coming out a greeny-black colour, how old do you think that made it??

BTW, the brake fluid I changed was coming out a greeny-black colour, how old do you think that made it??

Unless there is some green DOT4 fluid on the market, the color should be pale yellow.

The green color could be copper oxide, the black is from decomposed brake fluid. Let's not forget brake fluid is hygroscopic.

Old fluid attacks brake pipes, hoses, gaskets and can reduce brake efficiency.

Unless there is some green DOT4 fluid on the market, the color should be pale yellow.

The green color could be copper oxide, the black is from decomposed brake fluid. Let's not forget brake fluid is hygroscopic.

Old fluid attacks brake pipes, hoses, gaskets and can reduce brake efficiency.

 

 

I know, I just wonder how much damage it might have done; for someone who spent a fortune on good quality spares, to find the fluids in the system as bad as they were was puzzling.