Warning on Spark Plugs 1.4 TSI CAVE VRS, (& CTHE)'check the spark plugs!'

[Nandovee]

14 hours ago, Mickmartin said:

The B8EG flag up on NGK’s website as being the correct ones, not worth the bucks then?  

 

Any word from “ Nandovee” who posted above to see how he got 

on with the other denso plugs?

 

 

My cars in getting serviced and lowered 30mm as we speak. Will report on both once I get it back later today

[Mickmartin]

Thanks, I’m still torn between what new plugs to get?

 

I may be wrong but I think noticed on NGK’s Website there a variation of plug between the CTHE AND CAVE.

 

That throws another spanner in the works , Skoda customer service can’t tell me if mine has had an engine swap from CAVE to CTHE ? They said to take it to my local dealer?

 

Sticker in the spare wheel we’ll still says cave, previous owner said it had the replacement but no paper work to to prove so.

 

According to skoda customer services my cars never had any recall?

[Ootohere]

Lying Barstewards,

if they paid for a replacement engine they know, but likely they never did.

They need to know because the DVLA should be able to be told even if a like for like engine replacement was done.

 

(Do not dig into it, if there is a new engine in really then you know nothing, ask no questions and you can tell no lies.)

 

?

What kind of Recall, they would say there was none, they never did any.

So seeing as there never was any Recall's no Recall would show against the VIN.   Service Campaigns will.. 

There were Software Updates at Services, Breather Pipe Mods from TPI's with a Software Update, then New Oil Spray Jets and a Software 

update. There was Mk2 Brather Mod as well in Australia.

 

 

Choice, first plugs as fitted by Skoda until 2012, they were with a 0.8mm gap   'A' 

then they were the 2 nd ones Skoda fitted and the gap reduced to 0.7 mm  'B'

 

Or the 2 types of DENSO VK20 or SKJ,  (SKP as well forget that.)

or the Bosch plugs or what ever else cross checks for a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kw CAV / CTHE

 

Dead simple. well it should be.

 

These are what Skoda Main Dealers stopped fitting after they had a TPI to stop using them. PZFR6R,

(some just kept on and might still do.)

 

The 2nd ones are what they were told in the TPI to stock and fit to CAVE & then CTHE when the engines changed late 2012.

Those at the bottom are the same as those in the middle, just in VW packaging.

Edited 29 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[Mickmartin]

I absolutely grilled the young women on the phone mate but she was adamant that there were no recalls  for the Vin number I provided, I then asked her if she had heard about the engine replacements in the time she had worked for Skoda and she said yes but it didn't apply to my car.

 

She then started mumbling on saying the work must have or could have been done by a private garage and Skoda would have no record of it so it was my job to contact the previous owner how ever if I took it to my local dealer the could provide more information, Aren't they all working on and using  the same system?

 

Bar the sticker on the spare wheel well is  there any distinctive differences between the CAVE and CTHE that could help the average Joe decide what's what? I certainly don't have any oil issues as Ive done 2k since the buying the car and  its hardly budged.Maybe I worded it wrong with "recall" and should have mentioned service campaigns but the operator certainly never corrected me or led me towards that.

 

Thanks again George, I'll order some plugs today.......Springs arrived today just waiting on my drop links then hopefully get it into the garage on Friday.

Edited 29 November, 2017 by Mickmartin

[Ootohere]

There is a sticker at the bottom of the drivers door pillar as well with CAVE or CTHE.

Does not matter, what ever engine is fitted it is still a CAVE as far as the DVLA are concerned, 

If you can be bothered post a picture of your ECU because i am nosy but it ios not important.  People often say their CAVE got a CTHE as a replacement.

You can tell a CTHE without even checking the map on the ECU, just a Dyno run will give a big clue.

 

Everything done since the car arrived in the country by the Skoda / VW official Dealers should be on the system and Skoda UK Customer Services have that fully available.  A Dealership knows no more than they do.

 

What ever is done out of the network they would not know, but VW Group / Skoda know if an Engine is supplied to anyone even if a Warranty Company pays, 

because the Engine is on a return basis. & then the new engines VIN means the old engine number is removed from the block and head for refurnishing or scrap.

Skoda Customer Services and Dealerships just ignore the law or regulations though, saying new numbers stamped and other such rubbish.

[Mickmartin]

Had a wee look there, can’t see any stickers at the drivers side pillar. I’ll try get a picture of the Ecu tomorrow and confirm this.

 

Here’s  the email from the previous owner before I bought it, Best thing I can do is call westover skoda?

 

have the relevant paper work for the coil pack getting changed but nothing about an engine replacement.

 

 

Edited 29 November, 2017 by Mickmartin

[Ootohere]

Black sticker bottom down near the sill, it has the car weights on it, and should be there. Not something usually removed.

 

& there you go then you got a new base engine apparently, no idea what other components they upgraded, unless they are making out it is oil squirters.

Should all be on the Skoda System if a Skoda Dealership did the job.

[Mickmartin]

Thanks bud.

 

I’ll have a look for that sticker in the morning.

[Kobayashi]

It wouldnt surprise me if people have been told they were getting new CTHE engines & just had the latest fixes done at that time (cost saving) - 

Which would have been the oil jets off the CAVD engine VW Scirocco)

 

Also would  a CAVE have a reprogrammed ECU for a new CTHE engine? 

Edited 30 November, 2017 by Kobayashi

[Ootohere]

Yes a reprogrammed ECU, or a new ECU to go with the CTHE when one was fitted.

Reason being there are 3 different ECU's for the first 2 years of Production, Locked and easy to open and remap, locked and difficult to remap, and then Locked not able to remap, then there are the one that came after that.

 

There were members that did get a CTHE engine fitted, in a CAVE or a CTHE, and even one that had a new CTHE and then needed Breather Mods and Oil Spray jets fitted, another one i know quite well who had an extreme oil using CAVE and a new CTHE was fitted (Base CTHE Engine with head from the factiory) and 3 weeks later it would still not run until a new CTHE ECU arrived, 

then it was perfect, and got remapped before other CTHE's could be remapped.

 

 

There is a thread someplace with pictures Dandanfings CTHE with his cars ECU on the desk opened with a APR dealer trying to remap it and failing.

EDIT.

Pictures gone now, but i have them on an old laptop i think.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/314712-vrs-complaints-2013-model 

 

 

Early CAVE ECU's look like this, then there are 2 different casing tyres after this, before a 4th one.

 

 

Incase you have never seen, How not to mod a CTHE.

 

 

Edited 30 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[Nandovee]

New plugs are in. Car felt like throttle response was a bit better. Didn't feel as much lag. I'm I imagining that??  Car also lowered 30mm. I did however find out apparently I have hids.... Who knew. I had no idea. 

[Mickmartin]

Nice 1 mate, touch wood they keep working fine as mine lasted a few month.

 

Get  some pics up of how it’s looking!

[Nandovee]

47 minutes ago, Mickmartin said:

Nice 1 mate, touch wood they keep working fine as mine lasted a few month.

 

Get  some pics up of how it’s looking!

Will do mate. How long did your plugs last. Where did u get them from. I think they were fakes? I opted for the densos on folk on here's recommendations and can't recall anyone saying they don't last long. 

[Mickmartin]

Got mine from opie, Mines were the Denso Vk 20’s gapped at 0.4, can’t remember exactly but was it was only a few months ago I swapped them.

 

Noticed the misfire about 2-3 weeks ago however  Still no fault codes or warning lights  but it’s deffo lost some  power and the misfire is noticible, more so when ithe engines cold, I’d almost bet to say my engine is a wee bit louder than before certainly in the lower gears.

 

One guy had the vk20’s like me and I’m sure he had a few problems, my car is completley standard so it could be a possibility the vk20’s need a little more power to run effectively but again strange why they worked for a few weeks.

 

 

 

Edited 30 November, 2017 by Mickmartin

[Ootohere]

More likely the 0.4mm gap is the issue.

As the original thread that does seem to totally wrong gap for a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kW.   Best get them out and check them.

 

You do not necessarily get fault codes for misfires if there are not enough in a cycle, and if you do and then the ECU says enough limp mode can occur, 

2 cylinders shut down, & the Turbo shut down.

[Nandovee]

What should they be gapped at ?

[Nandovee]

Do we have a how to gap a plug video or guide?

[Mickmartin]

0.7mm I’m sure the correct gapping is, A gapping tool is needed....Most garages should have them, I’m ordering the denso’s you have tonight and getting prepared to lose the head trying to get the coils plugs out again.

[Ootohere]

The plugs come Pre-gapped just check if all 4 are not the same, first OEM were 0.8. then changed to 0.7.

Denso were 0.7. and some changed to 0.6 for Tuning boxes or Remaps.

 

if you have plugs with 0.4 mm pre gapped i would maybe consider they are not suitable, and not go opening them to 0.7mm

Edited 1 December, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[Nandovee]

contacted opie oils. they say the plugs i bought were pre gapped at 8mm. Should these be adjusted to 7mm? What is the impact of them being opened the 8mm? 

[Ootohere]

No problem at 0.8mm.

All you do is check as removed from the protector that they are at 0.8mm if manufactured that way and dispatched.

No point messing about if all 4 match and go in at plug holes at 0.8mm.

 

It was for the NGK that VW / Skoda changed the OEM plugs to a 0.7mm gap for 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kw Twinchargers.

[Nandovee]

ok nice one... i am still convinced (or paranoid) i am still losing some mpg since the service though. If the plugs wont be the cause then it will either be the air filter or the oil they used.....

 

 

[Ootohere]

Open the Airbox and look see that all looks fine.

As long as the Oil is 5w 30 FS or 5w 40 to the VW 502 or 504 spec no issue, 

 

As long as Plugs in correctly and all 4 are 0.7 or 0.8 mm there should be no issues, 

and now Glasgow is Mild again, then you can see how this weeks MPG goes.     I came through last night at T-time, i hate it. 

60 minutes from passing Robroyston to getting out on the M77.

[Kobayashi]

Another service so another year of Platinum NGK's, only 5000 miles done, so replaced like for like, still more heat going through Cylinder 3, though not worried.

 

So the final summary :

 

2015 NGK Iridium (Car burning oil Plug failed in cylinder 3)

2016 Oil Fixes + Car Mapped - Denso Iridium Failed after 3 months - replaced with Bosch FR6HI332 (these were ok)

2017 Bosch FR6HI332 replaced with Platinum NGK's - Bosch noted to be OK.

2018 Platinum NGK's from 2017 (Cylinder 3 more heat on tip but ok)

2018 Swapped out for another set of Platinum NGK's at service.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Really worth going for a try again of DENSO next time, bought from a trusted source so that you know they are the real McCoy.

They should be good for 15,000 miles or even more. That is all 4 of them.

Edited 20 August, 2018 by Offski