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We've started having tinker with the 2.0TDI 184PS


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14 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

 

M sport ? Thats one of those pathetic sport trims though isn't it. ST "Line" etc. Near enough meaningless nowadays. "Want to look like I'm quick but just can't afford the real deal".

 

 

and a few grand more expensive than what im driving 

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15 hours ago, stever750 said:

Ive been told that 3 is low down torque, 1 is linear and 2 is peak torque at higher engine speeds. I just tried P2, I prefer the performance higher up, mainly because it means you can pootle around town sensibly, and tap into the performance when you're in the mood. That said, there's not a huge difference between the modes, and whilst it's quick enough to now push the limits if the chassis and braking it's certainly no rocket ship. Nowhere near the performance of my cupra, and not quite as quick as my sharked 2.0tsi mk2 octy when really pushing on, but that's what you'd expect. Makes it a much more capable x country machine though, for sure, and am impressed with how smooth and linear it is 

 

i think the diesel has a greater overall feeling of increase than the TSI model due to the torque.

Edited by JohnnyType2
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16 minutes ago, JohnnyType2 said:

 

 

and a few grand more expensive than what im driving 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Those kind of sales "lines" its purely "aspirational" and for no other reason I can see and people who think like that need a kick in the balls/arse.


Value doesn't come into it, a nice car can be £2k or £20k IMO.

 

If you cant afford the real deal get a different car. To me its on the same notch as people who put GTI badges on their 1.4s etc. For brands like BMW or others to pander to that kind of mental illness is shameless to me.

Edited by vRSAnt
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20 minutes ago, vRSAnt said:

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Those kind of sales "lines" its purely "aspirational" and for no other reason I can see and people who think like that need a kick in the balls/arse.


Value doesn't come into it, a nice car can be £2k or £20k IMO.

 

If you cant afford the real deal get a different car. To me its on the same notch as people who put GTI badges on their 1.4s etc. For brands like BMW or others to pander to that kind of mental illness is shameless to me.

Agreed. Debadging, or making a Q car is far more desirable than dressing up a lamb in wolf's clothing. 

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39 minutes ago, JohnnyType2 said:

 

 

and a few grand more expensive than what im driving 

Which makes you and I the smart people, unless you think a car is simply a suit or a dress. One of the reasons I like skoda is that still so many uninformed folk think it's a pile of crap, until they sit in it as a passenger. 

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2 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Those kind of sales "lines" its purely "aspirational" and for no other reason I can see and people who think like that need a kick in the balls/arse.


Value doesn't come into it, a nice car can be £2k or £20k IMO.

 

If you cant afford the real deal get a different car. To me its on the same notch as people who put GTI badges on their 1.4s etc. For brands like BMW or others to pander to that kind of mental illness is shameless to me.

 

Agreed that cost has nothing to do with having a nice car, but you can’t just tar everyone with the same brush - I can guarantee the vast majority of people who buy M-sport / AMG line versions of the car they’re ordering are doing so purely because they look better than the other trim levels, and not simply because they “can’t afford an M3” or whatever - quite frankly you’re ignorant if that’s what you think. 

 

A lot of people will just want a car that looks good and goes well enough - I don’t see the issue with that at all. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by vtec to vrs!
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Remember, power is derived from torque. It's the ability of a petrol to rev higher and maintain torque at higher engine speeds that give it a higher top speed. It's torque (and the gearing) that dictates acceleration as Newton predicts F=m*a

Edited by stever750
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So for what it's worth, I've spent around 80 miles today over familiar roads trying out several settings. I started on map 1, power - 1 and it felt nice and smooth. Strong midrange, noticeable improvement over standard. Not as OMG as the first map I ever tried on a petrol vrs, and not remotely close to a leon cupra 280 that was dyno tested on two separate occasions and rollers at 310bhp and 510Nm. I then tried map 1 at 0 or mid power setting and tbh couldn't tell much difference. Next up map 2 power =0, and the difference to map 1 not night and day, maybe smoother, more linear? Stronger at the top end maybe? Then map 3 power =0 and this seemed stronger all round, but it's really difficult to assess these changes as they're quite subtle. I tried map 3 at P=+1 and it felt stronger, but I got a slight fluttering at 30mph 4th gear, ie town driving which might be the dreaded judder that others have referred to. I changed it back to map 2, P=+1 and no flutter or hesitation at low speeds, it's smooth, pulls strongly to 4.5k though torque is still obviously dropping off quite quickly at that point. 

 

I've no intention of trying the +2 let alone +3 settings, as +1 is at limits of cars dynamic ability, which isn't huge let's be honest. I get noticeable torque steer in 3rd and 4th  in the wet at full throttle. It was all getting a bit unruly at times at full acceleration, nit quite Saab 9-3 Viggen levels, but a definite whiff of  unruly behaviour. I'd imagine the 245 petrol with its limited slip diff is a much better base to work on, like the leon. 

 

My bum dyno tells me that my car is not as brutal as my leon, which I know was developing just over 500Nm, and there's no way my car is hitting that, I'd guess 450 ish, which is perfectly reasonable.  I think if you keep it sensible and don't try to push the engine by squeezing every last drop from it, then you'll have a much more rounded and balanced vehicle, so I'd agree with Andrew's comments that owners need to stop being so greedy! It's better when backed off slightly. Just my opinion, but hey what do I know! 

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Not read through the whole thread so apologies if already answered.

If a car is manufactured with 2 or 3 different bhp models, all with the same engine (e.g. 2.0 diesel available with 150bhp, 165bhp, 180bhp etc), and you are wanting to get a tuning box, would it make sense to get the lowest powered car and stick the tuning box on that?

I'm working on the assumption that it's the very same engine but tuned differently by the manufacturer.

 

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1 hour ago, Aston100 said:

Not read through the whole thread so apologies if already answered.

If a car is manufactured with 2 or 3 different bhp models, all with the same engine (e.g. 2.0 diesel available with 150bhp, 165bhp, 180bhp etc), and you are wanting to get a tuning box, would it make sense to get the lowest powered car and stick the tuning box on that?

I'm working on the assumption that it's the very same engine but tuned differently by the manufacturer.

 

That's a good question, and occasionally so. The key parts that need to be common are the turbocharger, the fuel pump, and if its a diesel the injectors. These are modular VAG components that are mix and matched with the brand and engine variants, so whilst almost all of the 2 litre four cylinder petrol engines are the EEA888 base, there are several version of turbo and pump fitted. These are largely, though not the only, limiting factors to how much gain you can get from a remap.

 

I'm pretty sure that a BMW 318d and a 320d mapped with the ame generic map get to the same end result, as they use identical hardware, only differentiated by the map. A Golf R and the original Leon Cupra 280 similarly - identical engines mechanically only separated by firmware on the ECU. The fundamentals are balancing  providing fuel (so pump pressure) measured by the rail pressure sensor, air (boost pressure, measured by unsurprisingly a boost pressure sensor) and the right time (quite a few sensors)

Edited by stever750
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11 hours ago, Aston100 said:

Not read through the whole thread so apologies if already answered.

If a car is manufactured with 2 or 3 different bhp models, all with the same engine (e.g. 2.0 diesel available with 150bhp, 165bhp, 180bhp etc), and you are wanting to get a tuning box, would it make sense to get the lowest powered car and stick the tuning box on that?

I'm working on the assumption that it's the very same engine but tuned differently by the manufacturer.

 

 

Short answer is no.

 

The only was to exploit when manufacturers use the same engine hardware but de-tuned is with a remap. Reason being is that a tuning box isn’t actually modifying anything within the ECU, it works downstream and essentially uses signals from the common rail / boost pressure sensors to produce more (in simple terms).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by vtec to vrs!
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/12/2017 at 09:43, vtec to vrs! said:

 

Short answer is no.

 

The only was to exploit when manufacturers use the same engine hardware but de-tuned is with a remap. Reason being is that a tuning box isn’t actually modifying anything within the ECU, it works downstream and essentially uses signals from the common rail / boost pressure sensors to produce more (in simple terms).

 

 

 

 

 

 

In simple terms the device reduces the signal from the rail and manifold, so the ECU sees a low fuel and pressure for a given throttle and engine speed, and its map tables demand an increase in fuel and boost to match. The problem is when the signal from the sensors is pushed below the error threshold, which is what throws up the fault codes / warning lamps. For some reason this sensitivity seems to vary with time, definitely a pattern with seasons, and from car to car. When it's working within safe settings, with enough safety margin above the error threshold it should be fine, as it's probably not stressing the turbo or fuel pump as much as an ECU remap. In practice, you're probably wasting time, and risking unexpected limp modes if pushing it above 0 power setting, maybe even -1

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Does anyone know the turbo type and vendor for 150hp TDI and 184 one?

 

p.s. bonus if some has same info for 1.4 TSI 

 

My 150hp diesel was punished by 1.4 TSI on a flying start race (2 cars advantage at 100mph) which was surprise and started to dig further.

 

Thanks!

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