Tuning box or Remap

[Justin 1]

Hi there , im looking to either get a map or get a tuning box for my Skoda fabia 1 vrs 55 plate . Ive spoken to GotBoost in Brigend and for a remap Stage 1 with a Dyno run before and after its £275 which doesnt seem too bad with a Dyno aswell :p  Ive looked on the www.tdi-tuning.co.uk  site and DTUK http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/ for the Tuning boxes and looked at the gains and torque difference and they arnt too bad for the price but your gains arnt 100% with the box are they ? I was thinking about going for DTUK as i have heared alot of good Poitive feedback reviews about them with no problems , tdi-tuning is cheaper but i havent heared as much about them :|  DTUK is £346 and Tdi-tuning is £250 . What option do you think is best and its more or less similar gains with both companies . Im in Swansea in South Wales and i am willing to travel is there is another better option but not further than an hour drive . Your help opinion and feedback on this would be great   Thanks

                                                                                                                           Justin

[JonathonO]

Interestingly enough I am looking into this myself. I'm more inclined to go for remapping than a tuning box and I am basing that on a discussion I had with a remapping guy who runs a business called Evans Remapping Services (ERS) which is mobile too. His FB page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Evans-Remapping-Services/641450685910960) shows some examples of his work including him breaking protected ECUs apart which I found interesting because of an article I came across while I was doing some research into this which is worth a read: http://vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=10672 before you consider making any decisions.

 

Pro's and con's to both methods. When I was asking ERS about remapping, risks, costs, problems he's had, he seemed pretty honest and upfront with me but perhaps more experienced people can confirm if any of this is utter BS.

 

First concern of mine was what the risks are; My thoughts were if you are making your car pump out more performance there is some additional strain put on the car and that's before you take into consideration how well you treat/service the car and how you drive. Lets face it, we mod our cars for more bhp and torque, we are going to drive faster and harder, right? He was honest enough to tell me the good and the bad cases he has had and he seems to post a great deal on his FB page.

 

He mentioned a case with a Seat Ibiza 1.9tdi 90bhp which the client wanted remapped with a 'power map' which would put it at 145bhp. He explained he told the client it would probably be a bad idea for one reason or another (didn't go into specifics other than saying he warned the client a power map might be very risky for the car) but did the job and within about 10 to 15 miles the turbo was blown. Obviously I don't know specifics but he was at least willing to mention some cases where it ended badly regardless of who was to blame.

 

On the other hand he gave some decent examples, two of which were his own vehicles one of which is a VW Transporter that now has 300k+ on clock. No components swapped out (that he mentioned), ran a stage 1 map on it some time ago when he first started his business and has had no problems aside from changing a flywheel which he has put down to him remapping it from the way he explained it (could be wrong).

 

Dimsport trasdata (http://www.dimsport.com/race/trasdata.php) seems to be the kit he is using, reportedly spent nearly £8k on remapping kit over past few months. Again, I know very little about this so maybe someone who has had experience getting cars remapped using Dimsport trasdata could give some feedback?

 

Started discussing my Fabia vRS then and he asked me about make and model, year, basic engine details etc and then asked the reasons for wanting to remap my car which I thought was good because I didn't feel like he was simply trying to nick my cash and tell me what I wanted to hear. Explained I wanted the remap because the power band (as I call it) is between 2000 to 3000rpm and it can feel a little sluggish outside of that. He reckoned around 190bhp (give or take) and an additional 90nm torque (give or take) is achievable on a power mapping but I felt the risks of that offset the benefits. Asked him what else could be considered that doesn't involve sacrificing too much fuel economy (although the way I drive has a big impact on that) and he mentioned an economy map or stage 1 map (one of the two) which could push out 160bhp which seemed much more realistic to me. Failing that, suggested a totally custom map too if I have more specific requirements.

 

Quoting around £160 for unprotected ECUs and up to £220 for protected ECUs; think a protected ECU relates to this term 'tricore' but I know nothing about that side of things at the moment.

 

We got chatting about the tuning boxes, mostly the 'bolt-on' kind, no mention of swapping out the chip completely or replacing the ECU for a tricked out one (can you even do that?) and mentioned a few local cases he's seen where they failed and although the car still runs fine, ended up burning through fuel. He did explain briefly why that was, mentioning the fuel injectors but he did lose me a little with that part of the discussion. Mentioned some cases where newbies bought cheap kit of eBay to do the job that basically overwork the turbos and end up blowing them to shreds. He does have a background in car mechanics working for a few local garages over the last ten years or so which is something.

 

He offers 14 day money-back guarantee, if I ain't happy he'll revert it back as he creates a backup before doing any work and he says he hangs onto the backups forever (or however long his business lasts). That said, my only concern there would be, what if his business goes bust and, after 14 days, can he basically hold my ECU backup hostage pretty much and charge me an extortionate fee to reverse the changes?

 

The only questions I didn't ask were what are the risks of corrupting the ECU both by remapping it and reverting it back to stock configuration?

 

Last but not least was my car insurance. Quotes nearly doubled in most cases based on online comparisons but I have yet to phone any providers.

[stever750]

You should also check out on these forums shark, Apr and REVO. There's a reason they cost a bit more.

[JonathonO]

You should also check out on these forums shark, Apr and REVO. There's a reason they cost a bit more.

Cheers Steve, will have a look at them.

[DarrellGB]

I've just fitted the new CRDt+ plus from DTUK, it connects to the fuel and boost sensors and I'm over the moon with it, good as any remap I've ever had.

[RichardatWakefield]

Hi Jonathon, try Chris Knott Insurance, my renewal was due, and was planning on a remap at Darkside Developments near here at Barnsley, great price from CKI for remapped Roomster.

Richard.

[JonathonO]

Hi Jonathon, try Chris Knott Insurance, my renewal was due, and was planning on a remap at Darkside Developments near here at Barnsley, great price from CKI for remapped Roomster.

Richard.

Cheers Richard, I'll give them a call. Thanks dude.

[goshow]

Personally I'd go for a remap every day if the week compared to a tuning box.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to stay clear of car park type tuners too. The ones that come to your house and flash the ecu with a map. It will be better than nothing but they're not great.

Ideally the tuner / mapper should have a rolling road / dyno. That way they can tell exactly what the car is doing and what is working etc.

As an example, I had a flash type tune on my car when I bought it. It was via a very reputable tuner too. I then took the car to Corten-Miller in Lincolnshire and they put the car on the rollers and developed a custom individual map using their software. The car didn't make anymore top end power, in fact it was the same, but it now makes 15hp more in the midrange. The car is so much smoother than before. It's more economical and a lot easier to drive.

I can't say too much for tuning boxes as I've only ever had one. However, ask any professional map writer / tuner about them and they'll show you where the recommend putting them (more than likely the bin). They are well known in the trade as "smoke boxes" because that's what the create.

If your car has a DPF and you use a tuning box then get prepared for a DPF failure. The extra power is basically caused by adding more fuel to the system, making it richer (a very rough explanation, not factual). As a result it will create far more soot / emissions, which will clog the DPF a lot faster.

    http://www.crdtechnology.com/select-a-map-diesel-control-ecu/diesel-engine-remap-or-diesel-tuning-box/     

[Andrew@DTUK]

I can't say too much for tuning boxes as I've only ever had one. However, ask any professional map writer / tuner about them and they'll show you where the recommend putting them (more than likely the bin). They are well known in the trade as "smoke boxes" because that's what the create.

If your car has a DPF and you use a tuning box then get prepared for a DPF failure. The extra power is basically caused by adding more fuel to the system, making it richer (a very rough explanation, not factual). As a result it will create far more soot / emissions, which will clog the DPF a lot faster.

www.crdtechnology.com/select-a-map-diesel-control-ecu/diesel-engine-remap-or-diesel-tuning-box/

sorry, what a load of rubbish...

a decent box will not cause DPF issues, if this was the case then this forum would be full of threads from members who have had such issues.

To the best of my knowledge i haven't read a single thread stating such an issue..

[faboka vrs]

Agreed.

You should see some remaps. Fixed X percent increase across the torque limiter, smoke maps edited to allow very rich air fuel ratio.

[DarrellGB]

If you buy a £20 magic chip from ebay guaranteeing 50% increase! I had a little help fitting my CRDt+ from a friend who has run his own successful garage for 30 years and drives expensive AMG mercs.

After fitting and a fiddle he was really impressed on the gains my DTUK box gave and as it connects to the boost and fuel pressure sensors he confirmed that it's a "quality piece of kit" and "as good as any remap" he's seen.

Think your views may be biased from a person selling a remap!

[Tinksy]

I have a DTUK tuning box and pedal box fitted.  Also had them on my previous car.  Never had any problems, even after near 70k miles. 

 

I think it comes down to personal opinion as to which one to go for.  Many people will have their own opinions.  Some will be from personal experience, others will just be from hearsay.  Investigate both options and make up your own mind.  If you do go for a tuning box though, you won't get better customer service than DTUK  

[WaveyDavey]

I've just fitted the new CRDt+ plus from DTUK, it connects to the fuel and boost sensors and I'm over the moon with it, good as any remap I've ever had.

 

 

Is yours the CR140 or CR170? Did you have to remove the undertray to connect to the boost sensor or did you manage it from above? Will be going with a CRDt+ box next year now i think as the funds i had put to one side a couple of months ago were used when the mrs' vRS needed some repair work doing.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave.

[DarrellGB]

Is yours the CR140 or CR170? Did you have to remove the undertray to connect to the boost sensor or did you manage it from above? Will be going with a CRDt+ box next year now i think as the funds i had put to one side a couple of months ago were used when the mrs' vRS needed some repair work doing.

Cheers

Dave.

It's the Greenline but with the box I recon almost a CR140, rolling road next week will give the exact figure

I took it around my mates garage to use the ramp so I could go from underneath, I could just about reach with from the top but the tray drops of in 10mins. The controls on the CRDt+ make it so easy to fine tune, pull over, leave engine running, adjust settings and off you go.

[stever750]

There's remaps and remaps, and there's tuning boxes and tuning boxes. Some work, and some are ****e.

[SEVrs]

There's remaps and remaps, and there's tuning boxes and tuning boxes. Some work, and some are ****e.

 

Succinctly put and accurate.

 

You can have re-maps and tuning boxes which add too much boost or too much flow and end up with smoking problems, or have both that are spot on.  It's generally a safe bet to go either route PROVIDED that the manufacturer has invested considerable resources in development.  Despite what's said about rolling roads, enough development hours behind a specific map to prove reliability, clean running and smooth, linear power increases more than likely gets a map close enough without the need to rolling road the car these days.  For ultimate tuning and for track use, a rolling road may be seen as essential.  For an everyday drive, it is always helpful but not essential as long as the map is a well developed one.  If that weren't the case, decent tuning boxes wouldn't work as well as they do.  One advantage going the map route is that your current map can be uploaded to the map provider who can interrogate the code and settings and make a custom map which can address things like specific power increases in a linear fashion, not deviating from the basic mapping too much but I'm pretty sure that some tuning boxes can also be tuned this way too.  With a box of course, you can remove it and revert back to the standard map any time you like, or take it to your next car (with the same engine).  I went the re-map route only because it better catered for the custom mapping I wanted.

Edited 28 August, 2014 by SEVrs

[MajorTom]

I went for a custom remap rather than a tuning box with a stock map. It's not just about making headline numbers, it's about the curves, or how you want your car to drive. Now I want to get the Haldex remapped as well, so there's a more equal split front to rear but that's a whole other discussion.

[headman78]

Now I want to get the Haldex remapped as well, so there's a more equal split front to rear but that's a whole other discussion.

 

If you manage to get this done, please let me know where and how?

[MajorTom]

I'll need to arrange a trip across the water to Sweden - home of the Haldex. I think this was discussed this in the BossFox Yeti thread and a couple of links were provided - you might have to do a search. I miss the feel of my old Subaru's.

[stever750]

On 22/08/2014 at 16:08, goshow said:

Personally I'd go for a remap every day if the week compared to a tuning box.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to stay clear of car park type tuners too. The ones that come to your house and flash the ecu with a map. It will be better than nothing but they're not great.

Ideally the tuner / mapper should have a rolling road / dyno. That way they can tell exactly what the car is doing and what is working etc.

As an example, I had a flash type tune on my car when I bought it. It was via a very reputable tuner too. I then took the car to Corten-Miller in Lincolnshire and they put the car on the rollers and developed a custom individual map using their software. The car didn't make anymore top end power, in fact it was the same, but it now makes 15hp more in the midrange. The car is so much smoother than before. It's more economical and a lot easier to drive.

I can't say too much for tuning boxes as I've only ever had one. However, ask any professional map writer / tuner about them and they'll show you where the recommend putting them (more than likely the bin). They are well known in the trade as "smoke boxes" because that's what the create.

If your car has a DPF and you use a tuning box then get prepared for a DPF failure. The extra power is basically caused by adding more fuel to the system, making it richer (a very rough explanation, not factual). As a result it will create far more soot / emissions, which will clog the DPF a lot faster.

    http://www.crdtechnology.com/select-a-map-diesel-control-ecu/diesel-engine-remap-or-diesel-tuning-box/     

Except that the engine speed of a diesel is controlled primarily by fuel flow. A petrol engine speed is controlled by air flow.