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The 280PS Thread


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“It depreciates like a rock.”

 

Shock, horror. Maybe you’re not surprised, but if anyone is…

 

The car market is famously flooded with new cars because of the aggressive PCP-selling that carmakers and their dealers have been doing in recent years. 

 

Perhaps the pertinent point is how the depreciation of a niche car like a Superb 280 compares with others that are remotely comparable. And I don’t mean in percentage terms – the case always made by people trying to justify their purchase of really expensive cars – but the only way that really counts for private buyers: in pounds and pence. I haven’t bothered to do the research, but would be happy to bet that the Superb is quite average in that respect.

 

Look on the ‘bright’ side: if sterling takes another nosedive (strong possibility), the relative value of your present car will go up. Mind you, it’ll cost a fortune to replace…

 

 

Edited by eurotraveller
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Checking on Autotrader I see that they suggest a price of £21500 for my two year old 280, seems like reasonable depriciation to me.

The lease runs out in 18 months and I would think the value I though it would be at this time looks about right, i.e approx £12k

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Some top-of-my-head numbers based on today’s market, sterling value and my kind of usage as well as full knowledge that purchasing something more enjoyable like a Superb 280 is not ‘sensible’:

 

Scenario 1:

Spend £40k on Skoda, keep 6 years, rack up about 120k miles. Residual value? Say £4k. So £36k depreciation.

 

Scenario 2:

Spend £70k on ‘comparable’ BMW/Merc/Audi. After 6 years / 120k miles, is that car going to fetch even close to £34k? Not a chance in hell.

 

And that’s before taking the escalating service/repair costs on ageing cars into account, which will be roughly double for the ‘premium’ brands vs. Skoda.

 

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I've had mine (ours, but I seem to be the only one driving it) for about 4500km now (3000 miles) and fuel consumption seems to hover at around 8 - 8,5 l /100km (33 - 35 mpg), even on large stretches of highway driving, it's hard to get it any lower.

Of course, I didn't buy a 206 kW to be an economobile, but it's still a fun challenge to get it as low as it will go.

 

Seems about right? Or do you guys  manage to do better/worse?

Edited by kriva
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I have had Jags for the last 12 years and I reckon the depreciation over 2 years is 50+% on average.

I have just sold a 26 month old XE for 21k, which cost 42k new.

I did some research on depreciation before I bought the 280ps and Skoda were considered to be the best for depreciation in Europe but the particular site I looked at did not quote any rates of depreciation. 

However, I do not think the same will apply to Superbs as one of the reasons the depreciation rate is good is because a lot of taxi drivers buy low mileage Octavias. Depreciation is always going to be high on a brand's top end model-end especially if it is heavily optioned.

 

 

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Mine is coming up to 700 miles.

Not getting close to 30mpg. Average since new is 23mpg.

Very little highway travel up to now and still running in so not overly concerned at this stage.

 

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My last few cars:

 

Audi TTRS. 7 years old, £57k new, sold for £16k with 80k miles on  it. £5.9k/yr depreciation.

 

Jaguar XF S. 2 years old, £46k new, sold for £25k with 17k miles on it. £10.5k/yr.

 

Mercedes CLS500. 5 years old, £60k new, sold for £15k with 63k miles on it. £9k/yr.

 

I know depreciation won't be linear...

 

I doubt a 280 Superb will drop as low as £4k in 6 years / 120k miles. Looking at Autotrader, that is true of a 6 year old Superb (Mk2), but that is for a rubbish diesel . Furthermore, the Mk3 Superb is a much more advanced car that will still be 'modern' in 6 years time and a £40k example will be loaded with options. I've read many reviews of the 280 where they've commented that it will be a great 'sleeper car' to buy in a few years, when it's depreciated. So there's an odds-on chance that there will be a reasonable demand for them.

 

So let's say £8k. £40k to £8k in 6 years gives £5.3k/yr.

 

And reality check - you can get a lot more knocked off the list price of a Skoda than a 'premium' brand. So in the real world, the depreciation figure is even better for the Superb. Case in point, my 280 L&K loaded to £40k with options cost me £31k, with a crappy old 1997 high mileage rusty L200 truck as scrappage. The 'premiums' wouldn't take the truck.

 

Plus, of course, the service costs - £700 for my last TTRS service.

 

Other stuff:

 

I'm getting 30mpg, varied driving.

 

Had it 3 weeks / 1400 miles and so far fantastic. Hope I don't get 'the rattles' over the next year!

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5 hours ago, kriva said:

I've had mine (ours, but I seem to be the only one driving it) for about 4500km now (3000 miles) and fuel consumption seems to hover at around 8 - 8,5 l /100km (33 - 35 mpg), even on large stretches of highway driving, it's hard to get it any lower.

Of course, I didn't buy a 206 kW to be an economobile, but it's still a fun challenge to get it as low as it will go.

 

Seems about right? Or do you guys  manage to do better/worse?

 

Highway driving I can get around 6.9L/100km on the 280PS. But that's pretty much 5 hours of 110km/h with a few stop overs around regional towns.  

Daily work commute I get around 8L/100km on normal setting and around 8.5-9L/100km on sport setting (Gearbox in D not S). This is all with 98RON fuel. 

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6 hours ago, kriva said:

I've had mine (ours, but I seem to be the only one driving it) for about 4500km now (3000 miles) and fuel consumption seems to hover at around 8 - 8,5 l /100km (33 - 35 mpg), even on large stretches of highway driving, it's hard to get it any lower.

Of course, I didn't buy a 206 kW to be an economobile, but it's still a fun challenge to get it as low as it will go.

 

Seems about right? Or do you guys  manage to do better/worse?

 

That's excellent. Over 5000 km I've averaged about 25 mpg on 98 RON fuel, about what I expected considering my usage and the fact the car was new when I picked it up. Expecting about 27-28 mpg in the longer term.

 

To give you an idea of what I'm used to, my previous 535d averaged about 26 mpg, the 170 ps Yeti before it about 35 mpg, the C220CDI before that about 33 mpg. I figure getting 65-70% of the ECE combined mpg is about right for me.

 

Given that my last 280 bhp petrol car (a Mitsubishi Evo) would struggle to get 20mpg I'm happy. Despite the headline figures though the Mitsubishi was a lot faster than the Skoda!

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Picking up on indyjukebox's comments on ride quality and steering, these are areas I've been paying particular attention to since I got my 280 L&K. Pretty much all my cars in the last 15 years had reputations for being good in these respects, so I kinda expected the Superb to be somewhat lacking.

 

However, I've been pleasantly surprised. I've messed with the DCC a lot and settled on Sport mode. I guess how you'd perceive it depends on what you've had before. Sure, it's a bit more bumpy, but nothing like my previous TTRS. In fact, it goes round corners just as fast and I would say it feels more stable while it's doing it. And the body roll is no worse than the Audi either. I've actually found that I'm driving a bit faster overall in the Superb than I did in the TTRS, simply because the you're a lot more cosseted - you could go fast / corner fast in the TTRS, but it let you know you were doing it - noisy, bumpy, twitching steering etc.

 

I get it that steering feedback isn't great on the Superb, but frankly the only time that matters to me is when the tyres are about to let go. Not how I normally drive. In reality, I barrel up to a corner, turn the steering wheel and round it goes, with a lot less hullabaloo than the Audi.

 

I'm sure if you took it to the next level and put them on a track, the Audi would win hands down. But I don't drive on a race track.

 

The only way to have it all is to spend a LOT more money. My old E55 AMG was cosseted AND would win on the race track. But it is double the price. I think Skoda have done a pretty reasonable job of balancing the conflicting requirements of sedate saloon / hot hatch / value for money.

 

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3 minutes ago, juux said:

 

That's excellent. Over 5000 km I've averaged about 25 mpg on 98 RON fuel, about what I expected considering my usage and the fact the car was new when I picked it up. Expecting about 27-28 mpg in the longer term.

 

To give you an idea of what I'm used to, my previous 535d averaged about 26 mpg, the 170 ps Yeti before it about 35 mpg, the C220CDI before that about 33 mpg. I figure getting 65-70% of the ECE combined mpg is about right for me.

 

Given that my last 280 bhp petrol car (a Mitsubishi Evo) would struggle to get 20mpg I'm happy. Despite the headline figures though the Mitsubishi was a lot faster than the Skoda!

 

Just curiousity.

Looking at some of the quarter mile time. It suggests the Skoda 280 is around mid 13s and a stock Mitsubishi Evo is around mid 13s. Is the Evo really that much faster? Although I would imagine to get the mid 13s the Skoda will need to use the Launch control where as the Evo doesn't have that function. It maybe closer than you think.

No doubt the Mitsubishi Evo is definitely going to be faster around corners.

 

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I wonder how much is down to perception. The Superb has a lazy throttle which you have to hammer to get the performance. I've got a Racechip throttle tuner on my Xmas list for that reason. I read a lot of good things about them on this site, but also had first hand experience a few years back in my CLS. It transformed the car. Didn't give it any more power, but it felt a lot more pokey. If the Evo's throttle is mapped like that, it would FEEL a lot faster.

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Yeah, use launch control and with DSG the overall effect is a similar - and more repeatable - 1/4 mile time. My car, dynoed at 290 bhp, did a 13.02 at York once though.

 

Given the lack of launch control though as you say, plus the slower shifting, the Evo is pulling harder for longer in every gear to compensate and make even the same time, meaning it feels a fair bit quicker when you put the foot down. Savage, in fact. The Skoda rarely feels 'untamed' in the way the Mitsubishis did, more of a surge rather than a 'snap your head back' type of acceleration.

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Just now, YTT said:

I wonder how much is down to perception. The Superb has a lazy throttle which you have to hammer to get the performance. I've got a Racechip throttle tuner on my Xmas list for that reason. I read a lot of good things about them on this site, but also had first hand experience a few years back in my CLS. It transformed the car. Didn't give it any more power, but it felt a lot more pokey. If the Evo's throttle is mapped like that, it would FEEL a lot faster.

 

Definitely, the throttle / gear mapping plays a huge part in its capable speed. I would imagine a lot of  skoda drivers would be driving on "normal" with gear in "D" rather than the maximum performance of "Sport" with gear in "S".

Where as the Evo would be manual and you can quite quickly change to the right gear to accelerate away.

I think perception also definitely comes into play. The EVO is much more raw (more noise, more vibration feedback, lower to the ground etc), so the overall sense of speed is greater. 

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2 minutes ago, juux said:

Yeah, use launch control and with DSG the overall effect is a similar - and more repeatable - 1/4 mile time. My car, dynoed at 290 bhp, did a 13.02 at York once though.

 

Given the lack of launch control though as you say, plus the slower shifting, the Evo is pulling harder for longer in every gear to compensate and make even the same time, meaning it feels a fair bit quicker when you put the foot down. Savage, in fact. The Skoda rarely feels 'untamed' in the way the Mitsubishis did, more of a surge rather than a 'snap your head back' type of acceleration.

Yes, the surge will definitely be greater given a lot of the power / torque is generated higher up in the RPM.

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11 hours ago, YTT said:

My last few cars:

 

 

Audi TTRS. 7 years old, £57k new, sold for £16k with 80k miles on  it. £5.9k/yr depreciation.

 

 

Jaguar XF S. 2 years old, £46k new, sold for £25k with 17k miles on it. £10.5k/yr.

 

 

Mercedes CLS500. 5 years old, £60k new, sold for £15k with 63k miles on it. £9k/yr.

 

 

I know depreciation won't be linear...

 

 

I doubt a 280 Superb will drop as low as £4k in 6 years / 120k miles. Looking at Autotrader, that is true of a 6 year old Superb (Mk2), but that is for a rubbish diesel . Furthermore, the Mk3 Superb is a much more advanced car that will still be 'modern' in 6 years time and a £40k example will be loaded with options. I've read many reviews of the 280 where they've commented that it will be a great 'sleeper car' to buy in a few years, when it's depreciated. So there's an odds-on chance that there will be a reasonable demand for them.

 

 

So let's say £8k. £40k to £8k in 6 years gives £5.3k/yr.

 

 

And reality check - you can get a lot more knocked off the list price of a Skoda than a 'premium' brand. So in the real world, the depreciation figure is even better for the Superb. Case in point, my 280 L&K loaded to £40k with options cost me £31k, with a crappy old 1997 high mileage rusty L200 truck as scrappage. The 'premiums' wouldn't take the truck.

 

 

Plus, of course, the service costs - £700 for my last TTRS service.

 

True, I was looking at worst case and you can indeed get thumping discounts on new; not that I would normally buy brand new or pay full price, but that happens to have served me very well on this occasion (long story).

So yes, the Superb’s depreciation might be far better still relative to roughly comparable ‘premium’ cars costing pretty much double.

But, first and foremost, the market is clearly flooded, so residual values are bound to be rubbish across the board.

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Either way, it's a lottery where the car market will be in 6 years time, what with demonization of diesels, the rise of electric cars, driverless cars (who asked for them?) etc. We might just be driving one of the last cars with a fun engine!

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I fully expect to be in an electric car when I change the car I have just bought in 8 yes. Electric cars are expected to become cheaper than ICE cars within the next 4 years. Ranges are also expected to increase to over 300 miles with recharge times coming down too. Looking at the acceleration of cars like the Tesla then they can still be a lot of fun. I loved driving the Leaf we had, add Tesla acceleration and it really would be fun.

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On 12/4/2017 at 13:38, philsmith said:

Checking on Autotrader I see that they suggest a price of £21500 for my two year old 280, seems like reasonable depriciation to me.

The lease runs out in 18 months and I would think the value I though it would be at this time looks about right, i.e approx £12k

 

Interesting. AT suggested 23000 for my year old 280. That is 12k gone in a year. Not pretty at all.

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On 12/4/2017 at 22:57, YTT said:

Picking up on indyjukebox's comments on ride quality and steering, these are areas I've been paying particular attention to since I got my 280 L&K. Pretty much all my cars in the last 15 years had reputations for being good in these respects, so I kinda expected the Superb to be somewhat lacking.

 

 

However, I've been pleasantly surprised. I've messed with the DCC a lot and settled on Sport mode. I guess how you'd perceive it depends on what you've had before. Sure, it's a bit more bumpy, but nothing like my previous TTRS. In fact, it goes round corners just as fast and I would say it feels more stable while it's doing it. And the body roll is no worse than the Audi either. I've actually found that I'm driving a bit faster overall in the Superb than I did in the TTRS, simply because the you're a lot more cosseted - you could go fast / corner fast in the TTRS, but it let you know you were doing it - noisy, bumpy, twitching steering etc.

 

 

I get it that steering feedback isn't great on the Superb, but frankly the only time that matters to me is when the tyres are about to let go. Not how I normally drive. In reality, I barrel up to a corner, turn the steering wheel and round it goes, with a lot less hullabaloo than the Audi.

 

 

I'm sure if you took it to the next level and put them on a track, the Audi would win hands down. But I don't drive on a race track.

 

 

The only way to have it all is to spend a LOT more money. My old E55 AMG was cosseted AND would win on the race track. But it is double the price. I think Skoda have done a pretty reasonable job of balancing the conflicting requirements of sedate saloon / hot hatch / value for money.

 

 

Audi has the worst set up of any brand I have driven recently. Excessively harsh, almost grashopper'ish ride quality. The Superb is much better. No question about it.

 

I am in a friend's Giulia 280 Veloce over the last 2 weeks. Smaller car, stiffer ride; but the damping is so much better. All the ridges and ruts on my usual drive dont jar/thud as they do in the Superb. Which was a surprise for me. I wasnt expecting that.

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Tyres...

 

There's a local road where the surface is breaking up on a bend and it's like driving across a washboard. Driving over it with the OEM Pirelli Cinturato P7 18" was quite violent on both the ride and steering. Unfortunately you can only avoid the rough part of the road if there is no oncoming traffic.

I changed the tyres recently to Michelin CrossClimate+ 18" and whilst I still try to avoid driving across that particular section of broken road I've had to none-the-less drive across it a few times now and the difference is astounding. The feedback through the ride and steering still can't be called smooth, you know you're driving over a rough surface, but in comparison to the violent "jar/thud" caused by those awful hard compound "eco" tyres the difference is like chalk and cheese.

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1 hour ago, indyjukebox said:

 

Audi has the worst set up of any brand I have driven recently. Excessively harsh, almost grashopper'ish ride quality. The Superb is much better. No question about it.

 

I am in a friend's Giulia 280 Veloce over the last 2 weeks. Smaller car, stiffer ride; but the damping is so much better. All the ridges and ruts on my usual drive dont jar/thud as they do in the Superb. Which was a surprise for me. I wasnt expecting that.

 

My old TTRS was a stiffer ride with better damping. The problem was the stiffer ride - better damping but being knocked about all the time. I've found the Superb a bit odd in this respect. In general it's fine, I said before I drive / corner faster in it than I did in the TTRS. I see some kind of irregularity in the road approaching and I cringe, because in the TTRS it would bang it's way through it. But in the Superb it just absorbs it with a mild 'donk'.  However, there is a certain type of pothole that seems to bang right through the Superb. Not often, but it does happen. And here's an interesting thing, the other day I had cause to go down an unmade road with some nasty potholes. I thought I'd be clever and switch to 'comfort' mode and it was dreadful. Switched back to 'sport' and no problem. Obviously bumpy, but in a much more controlled way. Every car I've had that was renowned for it's handling was also a bumpier ride. You pays your money you takes your choice. From a lifetime of experience with motorbike handling, I know suspension is a VERY complex subject and very difficult to get right. And even when you get it right, it will only be for a certain range of conditions. I'm happy with the Superb suspension so far. If I had a gripe (albeit not a big one), it would be road noise from the tyres. When I change them, I'll be doing a bit of research into quieter types!

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Should be getting my 280 L&K estate in moon white delivered tomorrow, looking forward to having another petrol car again. So bored of driving diesels for the last few years.

 

Electric still isn't quite where I need it to be given I will do the odd 400 mile round trip with work, once every couple of months or something.

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BillyJim re tyres:

I don’t doubt the significant difference between the two types of tyre you mention and describe. However, to a certain extent such differences will surely also just be due to new vs. well worn. I’m sure that, like me, you will have felt major ride-quality improvement just from switching from worn to new of the same tyre.

Sw1:

I think quite a few of us here did that switch from diesel to 280 TSI; in my case after 20 years of diesel. You’ll soon know how right that feels. :)

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12 hours ago, YTT said:

 

My old TTRS was a stiffer ride with better damping. The problem was the stiffer ride - better damping but being knocked about all the time. I've found the Superb a bit odd in this respect. In general it's fine, I said before I drive / corner faster in it than I did in the TTRS. I see some kind of irregularity in the road approaching and I cringe, because in the TTRS it would bang it's way through it. But in the Superb it just absorbs it with a mild 'donk'.  However, there is a certain type of pothole that seems to bang right through the Superb. Not often, but it does happen. And here's an interesting thing, the other day I had cause to go down an unmade road with some nasty potholes. I thought I'd be clever and switch to 'comfort' mode and it was dreadful. Switched back to 'sport' and no problem. Obviously bumpy, but in a much more controlled way. Every car I've had that was renowned for it's handling was also a bumpier ride. You pays your money you takes your choice. From a lifetime of experience with motorbike handling, I know suspension is a VERY complex subject and very difficult to get right. And even when you get it right, it will only be for a certain range of conditions. I'm happy with the Superb suspension so far. If I had a gripe (albeit not a big one), it would be road noise from the tyres. When I change them, I'll be doing a bit of research into quieter types!

FWIW I went from  Conti Sport Contacts, (225-40 x 18) on my Superb 2 to Goodyear Efficient-Grip Performance & they are much quieter.

Very happy with grip, ride & steering, + a small decrease in petrol consumption, 

When we wear-out the Bridgestones on the Golf I'm going to choose the Goodyears again, if I can get them with the correct speed rating.

 

DC

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