Haldex Clutch Pump

[Ryeman]

Err

I was thinking the only way it could show the way he stated, was that they had been rotated (front to rear) without his knowledge during a standard service.

Otherwise, to me, he DOES have a problem.

[TruckbusUK]

Err

I was thinking the only way it could show the way he stated, was that they had been rotated (front to rear) without his knowledge during a standard service.

Otherwise, to me, he DOES have a problem.

Good point, do dealers still do that sort of thing without charging the earth?

[Ryeman]

Good point, do dealers still do that sort of thing without charging the earth?

I thought it was fairly common practice and was usually listed as such.

[TruckbusUK]

I thought it was fairly common practice and was usually listed as such.

Not with any dealer I've ever visited over the last 35 years ... Volvo, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Renault, Ford, Austin Rover .... maybe I shall be impressed with Skoda

[Llanigraham]

Never had it done by my Skoda dealer.

[Yety]

Volvo filter is compatible to all Skoda Haldex gen.4 systems.part No. is:Volvo 31325173.Filter is absolutely the same,but aluminium cap is slightly different and better to use the present one also the same is with plastic pad(totally different).

 

 

Mmm, I'd found the same Volvo kit of parts - seemingly very expensive.

 

I'll try that part number at my local Volvo dealer and see what gives. I've already done one oil change myself, next one I might try a filter change as well if I can source the bit. Very strange that the filter element is not a proper spare part, not included in Skoda service regimes unlike other Haldex applications - Simply Not Clever.

[TruckbusUK]

Mmm, I'd found the same Volvo kit of parts - seemingly very expensive.

 

 

Try FRF in Swansea, usually very good and competitive ... check the Volvoforums.org.uk there is a discount code available.

[zar]

Mmm, I'd found the same Volvo kit of parts - seemingly very expensive.

 

I'll try that part number at my local Volvo dealer and see what gives. I've already done one oil change myself, next one I might try a filter change as well if I can source the bit. Very strange that the filter element is not a proper spare part, not included in Skoda service regimes unlike other Haldex applications - Simply Not Clev

Simply not clever  from VAG side as well,because this item couldn't be found among their service parts as well. I've tried to find it out in VW official dealer ,but they couldn't discover it.Almost the same situation as it was with Skoda dealer.BTW ,filter kit for VW and Audi could be found in internet but the price(at least here in Bulgaria) was double more than Volvo Haldex filter kit.

Edited 1 May, 2016 by zar

[Bopman]

Hi everyone..I just purchased a Ross-Tech vcds cable and ran some tests on my Yeti and it came up with the following:

 

Address 22: AWD        Labels: 0AY-907-554-V1.clb

   Part No SW: 0BR 907 554 C    HW: 0BR 907 554 C

   Component: Haldex 4Motion      3018  

   Coding: 0000005

   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

   VCID: 458121120CE8D7160D-8010

 

1 Fault Found:

00448 - Haldex Clutch Pump (V181) 

            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

             Freeze Frame:

                    Fault Status: 11000000

                    Fault Priority: 2

                    Fault Frequency: 57

                    Reset counter: 48

                    Mileage: 3618101 km

                    Time Indication: 4

 

             Freeze Frame:

                    Work Shop Code: 00768

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

                    Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

 

The dealership in town here didn't want to accept my scan and did one of their own showing the same error codes (I have 3 error codes, all up!). Anyway to cut to the chase they said that they need further confirmation, reset the codes and want the car again next week.

They say that Skoda won't replace the pump without definite proof of it being faulty!. Warranty expires mid July so I'm a tad worried.

[ernieb]

The fact that you have flagged the error prior to the end of the warranty must surely count in your favour if something happened after July? Let them investigate and keep monitoring the for the fault code.

[voxmagna]

Dealer shops always want to stand you up for a diagnostics charge and really they have to do it to get a warranty claim agreed with Skoda. However, the important thing since you will be paying, is to get a copy of their printout before they clear any faults then afterwards when they might claim there is no problem, also get a copy of the invoice dated showing what you paid. I read so many times of people having diagnostics scans done paying for it and just getting a verbal back from the service rep.  You have to come away with evidence to make a future claim if a fault keeps coming back.

 

I keep reading threads about the Haldex pump but I've not had MY12 Yeti on the ramps yet to have a good look around and investigate. I did a bit of desk research with the wiring diagram and discovered the Haldex pump motor shares the same fuse as another component.  All these small heavy duty pumps - fuel pumps, ABS pumps, cabriolet roof pumps etc have common failure traits:

 

Most obvious is water and grit getting into motors if any parts are open for cooling.  The biggest problem with small powerful dc motors is they work close to their limits on torque and as torque increases, so does motor current which increases the chances of burnout. They are normally not rated for continuous running either and need to be kept cool. In a hydraulic system where a filter gradually becomes blocked, this might also increase motor loading pushing up the current stressing windings, brushes and producing more heat. A fuse correctly rated at say 10-20% over normal normal average running current should protect the brushes and windings against sustained overloads. However, you cannot fine tune fuse protection if the same fuse is shared with something else, because it must be rated to take the (higher) normal current of both devices. Some of these motors incorporate a thermal overload fuse inside the fixed winding. Once fired, the motor appears to be open circuit/burned out when overload has just tripped the one shot cut out which may be on the margins for temperature. The other issue lurking is if there is an integrated controller close to the motor and it is the controller voltage drive that fails, not the motor itself. Workshops would jump to a motor failure at your expense when a £1.50 mosfet transistor in a controller has actually failed or been spiked.

 

Until somebody can tear one of these failed Haldex pumps apart, there will be conjecture and guesswork as to why they fail. I'm up for making some measurements and tests but I'd also like to cannibalize a failed unit. I shall certainly try to separate their loom winding and put my Haldex pump on its own fuse after I've measured its average running current.

[Ryeman]

It's a bit rich of them to charge so much for a scan but not give you the printout you've paid for without having to ask for it.

Are they that ignorant or just cynical and taking advantage of public lack of knowledge.

[Bopman]

The dealership informed me that the scan was a legal document and that they couldn't let me have a copy!...Despite agreeing that the Haldex error code did exist using their scanning equipment they also informed me that I risked invalidating my warranty by doing a scan of my own using my VAG VCDS cable (Genuine Ross-Tech using 15.7.4 version, not a Chinese knock off)

I haven't scanned it since the dealer reset the codes, but the car goes into the dealership again on Wednesday so I'll see what the outcome is..I can understand that they probably get owners who do performance mods to their cars, but with my 61st birthday coming up this week, I'm hardly some boy racer with brightly coloured brake calipers, vacuum gauges and blow off valves hissing at every gear change..I drive like a saint 

Edited 8 May, 2016 by Bopman

[JCP]

The dealership informed me that the scan was a legal document and that they couldn't let me have a copy!...Despite agreeing that the Haldex error code did exist using their scanning equipment they also informed me that I risked invalidating my warranty by doing a scan of my own using my VAG VCDS cable (Genuine Ross-Tech using 15.7.4 version, not a Chinese knock off)

I haven't scanned it since the dealer reset the codes, but the car goes into the dealership again on Wednesday so I'll see what the outcome is..I can understand that they probably get owners who do performance mods to their cars, but with my 61st birthday coming up this week, I'm hardly some boy racer with brightly coloured brake calipers, vacuum gauges and blow off valves hissing at every gear change..I drive like a saint 

"a legal document" tosh and nonsense find some non idiots to deal with.

[ernieb]

Have to agree with JCP it does sound like a lot of BS to me also.

[Ryeman]

You pay for the "legal document" but can't have it or a copy!

Consumer affairs ought to be involved in that sort of discussion.

[EvoT]

Sounds lkke double BS to me ! are these people trying to hide something about this Haldex system on the Yeti ? If you use your own equipment are they afraid you will find something and be back at the dealership complaining ?

 

When any firm says 'no you can't have a copy' this means they do not want you to have any form of real evidence regarding the subject in question be it a vehicle fault code or anything else. They just want it to be limited to a verbal discussion which without real evidence is just that- hearsay !

 

By saying it is a legal document they are just trying to use 'the legal system' to make you backoff ! ask them why is it a legal document and can I see this in print please from your legal department of Skoda AUSTRALIA I would also write to Skoda with all the details and ask just what is going on.

[g6zru]

Sounds to me as if the dealer is building a wall to protect  his business and not a valid reason to prevent you having access to diagnosis details of YOUR vehicle.

 

Fred

Edited 9 May, 2016 by g6zru

[JCP]

would they give you an "illegal" document-they are talking gobbledegook -and the usual reason for that is they are not people you want to do business with. Name and shame!!

[Ryeman]

Surely it's ultimately VAG that pays for failures.

Maybe the dealers are under instruction over 'proof'......they tend to be the meat in the sandwich after all.

[number57]

As abone.

Unless you yourself paid for the computer scan you have no rights to any printouts, However you are being totally misled over the use of the OBCD port. It is there for the use of all not just VAG staff / equiptment. if you have used the port only for diagnostic work and not to make changes to the cars configuration the use of third party equiptment has no relevance on your warranty.

[voxmagna]

Manufacturers of all EU vehicles built with an OBD II diagnostics report are required to publish details of the fault code protocols so that 3rd parties can manufacture and sell diagnostics equipment in a level playing field. They are not required to disclose certain 'proprietary' information of the kind used for ECU tweaking. But service reminder resets and fault code reading are both things that 3rd party service shops can do to provide the same level as service as a VW/Skoda shop which would not invalidate your warranty should you use them, as long as they stick to the service sheets.

 

If you pay for something you are in a contract with the service provider and I would think legally you have a right to expect a copy of the report of their work, whether it is the actual diagnostics printout or their summary listing any fault codes and recommended further action. If they do a scan under warranty and they pay, then you are not entitled to have a copy of that or any communication between the dealer and Skoda as they will probably argue 'commercial confidentiality'. This means keeping the warts away from owners so they continue to drive their cars in perfect oblivion and happiness!

 

However, as I understand it Dealers tell you you have to pay up front for a scan before they will pursue a warranty claim on your behalf. Since you have a contract for them to do work and you pay, I think anybody could have a case and could go to the small claims court if the Dealer didn't agree to hand over the results of a diagnostics scan on your car.   There only has to be one case won and all Skoda owners being given the same harsh treatment will benefit. I have no relationship to Judge Rinder!

[Bikerz]

Gents

 

You guys on this forum seem to always be most upto date. My Golf mk6 R has flagged this fault V181 on a few occasions now with only 34k on clock and at those time I can assure you I was in fwd.

 

I plan on changing the haldex oil (As its due in 6k anyway), however is it worth removing pump and cleaning the gauze head it seems to have? (Looking at pictures) and checking electrical connection not full of oil?

 

Any advice be great as Im not sure what to do as its intermittent, 99% of time fine them in last 3 or 4 months happened 4 times. Any advice?

 

Cheers

[voxmagna]

I just want to add a few practical notes after getting into my Haldex Gen 4 pump filter in Yeti 2012 Tdi CFHC common rail 51,000 miles. If you have older generation Haldex pumps there is a lot of info on the internet. Gen 4 has differences and it is easy to get misled looking at posts for other versions. You do not need the crank ring spanner tool widely sold on Fleabay - Gen 4 has a cover held down by 2 torx screws. the first thing you do is make sure which Gen Haldex unit you have! Even the VW Haldex oil part numbers are different between generations.

 

This link is the closest to MY12 haldex Gen 4:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6986344-Haldex-gen-4-fluid-and-filter-and-Diff-fluid-change

 

Locating the filter cover is easy and only a torx bit is needed to remove 2 screws and lift the cover. You do not need to drain the oil if you are just inspecting the filter. Due to the silly prices charged for this filter when we are told they are 'fitted for life', I decided on inspection first to see what I had.

 

The first problem after removing the filter cover is getting the 'plug' out which is pushed in and held by 2 O rings.  The plug is actually the seal and directs oil flow down through the centre of the filter and out through the sides. The centre entry point on the top of the filter isn't obvious as it is a sprung flap with a one way valve behind. You don't need to remove any other parts after the cover to gain access. The plug has deep triangular slots and a raised centre spigot.  There may be cheaper alternative options for buying the filter, but it may not come with the same cover and plug. Don't  take the chance of destroying the nylon plug by grabbing the spigot with a grip wrench - you will probably need to reuse it!

 

I made a couple of tools to help 'extract' the plug without damage. They are rough and ready using some scraps of builders tie bar, but the photos show the idea. You start by rotating the plug back and forth with the pin tool to loosen it. Then fit a self tapping screw into the centre spigot as far as it will go and use the pinch bar under the screw head whilst wiggling the plug back and forth. Slowly the plug will rise upwards first O ring clears then finally the second. Have a clean oil catch tin underneath because about 4-5ml of oil will come out. It isn't a lot but if you don't change the oil, that is what you need to put back.

 

Once the plastic plug is removed you can now fish out the filter. Mine was marked PA66GF35. Finding them is like looking for hens teeth and some kit sellers are making a killing. I suspect because they are supposed to be a lifetime item and are bespoke to Haldex, no body else is offering an alternative. I am going to look at the Land Rover part LR032298 which is supposed to be the same filter  but a different cover and plug price about £40.

 

For now I wanted to just pull it out and look, but then I decided to give the old filter a good back flush and see what came out. I'm not advocating this as the way to service and reuse Haldex filters!  I did drain the Haldex oil, it is a greenish colour and was very clean. With the filter removed I dunked it in brake cleaner. The inlet is through the centre with a one way valve behind it. It must be inlet coinciding with the valve direction. I was able to open the flap valve then used my airline blow gun and a hyperdermic syringe to push brake cleaner through in both directions. At first I just a got a graying into the cleaner but after several flushes it came through clear.

 

Back went the old filter pending further research on the Landrover part. Filling up the Haldex unit seemed complicated when I read through the above link. However, it is very easy. I have several large hyperdermic syringes with a couple already fitted with short lengths of silicone tube. Look carefully at photos in the link to locate the filling plug, Feed in oil using the syringe, although a turkey baster would also work well. When the correct oil level is reached it comes out of the fill hole. Remember to fill or check the oil level off ramps and on level ground!

 

Next on to the electrics. According to some wiring information I've seen, these Haldex units can be wired to share other items on a 15 amp fuse. This could be a disaster if there's a filter clog when the pump motor current rises dramatically. From what I can tell of MY12 fuse layout, Skoda have put my Haldex unit and steering controller on a 5 amp fuse (centre top). The Haldex pump takes about 3.5 amps normally, so I'm happy with that. It has occured to me that if the Haldex motor blows this fuse, then I should get a steering control warning. I need to look further into that. Although I haven't actually replaced the filter, everything looked clean and I'm prepared to go back for another look.

 

[Bopman]

My Haldex fault code is back!

The dealership informed me that the scan was a legal document and that they couldn't let me have a copy!...Despite agreeing that the Haldex error code did exist using their scanning equipment they also informed me that I risked invalidating my warranty by doing a scan of my own using my VAG VCDS cable (Genuine Ross-Tech using 15.7.4 version, not a Chinese knock off)

I haven't scanned it since the dealer reset the codes, but the car goes into the dealership again on Wednesday so I'll see what the outcome is..I can understand that they probably get owners who do performance mods to their cars, but with my 61st birthday coming up this week, I'm hardly some boy racer with brightly coloured brake calipers, vacuum gauges and blow off valves hissing at every gear change..I drive like a saint  

 

The car is just out of warranty by about 6 weeks and goes into the dealership on Tuesday 22/8/2016. I'm hoping I don't have a bun fight with the dealer on getting this rectified out of warranty although when I notified them it was within the warranty period.

I've raised a report with Volkswagen Customer Care to cover my arse so watch this space.