ezero1 device (CGON)

[chimaera]

1 minute ago, tubbyleigh said:

Aspen. This is the only forum talking about cgon. I first came here to research a product before agreeing to fit one but no one here had fitted one. 

After fitting one I joined the forum and posted my findings. Only trying to be helpful. Nothing for you to be suspicious about. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one. Why would I care either way?

If you're a reseller for the device, there's reason to be suspicious.

[tubbyleigh]

Not really. You don’t know where I work so you can’t give me any money. As I said earlier in the thread, the profit margin is not good anyway. 

 

[chimaera]

While I don't know where you work, your customers do, and if they see this device advertised at your place of work, they may well search online for reviews/testimonials, etc. Some of them may well end up on this thread. So for you to make positive claims about it is a problem if those claims are unsubstantiated.

 

I care little whether your margin on these is good or not; I care a lot that customers are being fleeced for 500 gbp for a device that doesn't do what it says on the box.

Edited 16 January, 2018 by chimaera
Added stuff

[Rooted]

Tpacs, 

that is fine then,

if you always got 480-500 miles from a tank and you get 18% better that will be at least 570 miles to maybe even 590 i take it.

[chimaera]

There are some situations where an open mind is appropriate, generally ones where the science behind it is still being worked out. This is not one of them. The Laws of Thermodynamics are absolute and beyond question after two centuries of people trying to knock them down. The claims made for HHO devices are thermodynamically impossible.

 

Anyone who asserts otherwise doesn't understand thermodynamics or they've got something to sell you.

[Breezy_Pete]

I'm working on a home version of this.

It plugs into a standard 13A socket. It has a medium-sized electrolysis tank with 4 whole litres of my special electrolyte solution (and unobtanium electrodes).

 

The (extra-special) hydrogen and oxygen produced (our electrolysis gizmo is very special and patented) is burnt in a little internal combustion engine (no other fuel required) connected to an alternator that generates 240V. That's fed out to a (only dangerous if you run it when not plugged in) 13A plug that you plug into the other outlet of the double socket on the wall.

 

The device takes 5A out of the left hand outlet and puts 7A (honest!!) back into the right hand one, and you only have to top up the electrolyte* once every six months!  Buy enough of these and you can power your whole house from this new, revolutionary technology. Put those electricity bills behind you! Save the planet!

 

Any takers? Investors? Crowd-funding? (PM only please, to save flooding out the thread).

 

*(just £5.99 for 4 litres!)

Edited 16 January, 2018 by Wino

[Breezy_Pete]

Welcome along Gibx. You'll soon get your money back on the purchase price at that rate. It's unbelievable! Literally!

[CWARD]

1 hour ago, Gibx33 said:

Hi all I have a Cgon unit fitted to my car... I found it to be really good.. my MPG has increased buy 20%. I have a Subaru Forester 2.0 litre petrol / LPG. I have found that it is much more responsive, smoother and just nicer to drive. The reduction in emissions were -51% in HC and a Nox reduction of -81% along with a reduction in CO.

 

I have a in car wireless display that talks to the Cgon unit, mounted just behind the front grill. The installation took around a hour and a half to complete. But my mechanic has fitted a few now so he is quite proficient.

 

Just my findings...guys

 

 

 

That's quite a first post you’ve made on this forum with some bold claims for this device. I assume you have some reports to back up the emissions reductions you’ve stated?

 

What’s the name of the garage you use? I may get one fitted myself next time I’m down Bristol. 

[mac11irl]

There really is a trend forming with this new members and this thread..

Methinks its getting a lot of google hits....

 

Meanwhile, some food for thought.

 

 

Edit 

@Wino can get 6 of your gadgets?

Edited 16 January, 2018 by mac11irl

[Gibx33]

Hi Tpacs  It was set to 2 amps i believe...i get a saving of around 20%! have you seen their new App in operation yet? I am going to scope the MAF wire and see what i can see...

[Gibx33]

Hi Tpacs - As I mentioned in my first post, the car drives much smoother, much more responsive and a joy to drive. giving that not much gas is being introduced, i think its a catalyst chemistry thing rather than a thermodynamics thing that someone has mentioned on here before. I am going to scope the MAF wire today too see if they are putting a signal down it... just to make sure...

[Aspman]

I'm not suspicious at all not me, never.

 

I'll give one caveat, if the appliance is carrying out nuclear fusion or fission, tapping the theoretical zero point energy of spontaneous virtual particles in a quantum vacuum or using some wireless energy transfer as patented by Nikola Tesla THEN it may produce more energy than is put in.

 

Are there dilithium crystals involved anywhere?

A flux capacitor?

Maybe some LEDs with the word "McGuffin" scratched out

 

 

[CWARD]

@Tpacs I don’t have one fitted. I was just asking for the reports that back up @Gibx33 claims for emissions reductions he quoted, which haven’t been provided. 

I also asked for the garage name so next time I’m in Bristol I can check this device out and maybe fit one myself. 

Can either of you show me the device fitted?

[Rooted]

I certainly will give £10 to help crowd fund one fitted to a long term BRISKODA member's vehicle.

they could have one fitted to a gas guzzler if they wanted to do a BRISKODA real world test.

Do the reporting back and any checks / fuelly or diagnostics.

 

Just another 48 members or how ever many needed to pay up as well.

 

Worth it if really 100 miles extra can be got from a tank of fuel compared to what is normally got.

 

I am totally a sceptic and not someone that buys Magnets to put on fuel lines.

Edited 17 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Kenny R]

18 hours ago, Aspman said:

Two members who have joined only to post in this one very specific thread......

 

I am cynical but.....

Perhaps this ezero1 device, hasn’t got a fanboy forum of their own, so they are all taking  over ours. 

[CWARD]

@Gibx33 You claim a 81% reduction in NOX but Hydrogen produces a higher combustion temperature which would actually increase NOX emissions when used with other fuels due to the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio required to get combustion for the main fuel, hydrogen requires a lower ratio.  Tpacs should be able to confirm this.  You could lower this through manipulating the MAF readings but that would reduce the combustion efficiency of the other fuel which would increase the unburnt fuel hydrocarbons so we have reductions that are at opposite ends of the scale due to the combustion temperature.

Engines designed to run on hydrogen only have only been around 15% more efficient from the likes of BMW and Mazda. When used with another fuel you will see losses of similar values but you're now saying that it is a 20% increase which is amazing.

Aston Martin did some work with Alset did some work on a hybrid system but this worked in a similar fashion to your LPG conversion in that it either runs on gas or petrol. Even then when run on hydrogen the engine output was reduced to 500ps down from 550ps or 9%. This required an ECU that would also flip between different maps depending on what fuel was supplied to the engine as well as modifying the ignition, valves, head and crank. It looks like they could have saved themselves a fortune in R&D and just fitted a Cgon unit instead.

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Do you work for a company called Radical Remaps, GibX? Are they a registered CGON installer?

[chimaera]

@CWARD I recall reading about a prototype hydrogen ICE Ford built about 15 years ago. It was developed from the 2.0 petrol engine (which made about 130 bhp) and it only developed something like 50 bhp on hydrogen. Unfortunately I can't find a link right now.

[CWARD]

The claims that you're both making @Gibx33 @Tpacs have already landed Cgon in hot water with the advertising standards.

 

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/cgon-ltd-a17-386763.html

 

@Tpacs Your company is also listed as an installer for Cgon but you are also unable to produce any accurate reports to back up these figures.

 

https://www.cgon.co.uk

 

TURBOPACS LTD

• Marc Dellapina
• 4, Dragonville Industrial Park
• Dragon Lane
• Durham
• Co Durham
• DH1 2XJ
• Tel: 0191 386 3422

If this supposed to be advertising the product you're doing a very poor job as you are writing lots that has no factual backing from independent test results let alone a scientific basis.   

[chimaera]

5 minutes ago, Tpacs said:

Hi Cward - if you followed my post it was to provide my personal feedback from something that i have actually tried. I have also said i dont need to advertise here or on any other forum for that matter but thought it would be an interesting topic however there seems to some that are so bothered about this that if you would prefer i can just leave the group....

 

There are always going to be the Ney sayers and thats fine but some of the comments  are getting really close to damned rude....i have provided my personal feedback thats all and once again thought it was something a little different thats all...if it offends just say...

 

Science is not on your side here. Facts remain facts regardless of what your opinion/experience might be. This is not naysaying, it's the reality of the situation. If you're unwilling to accept that, that's your problem.

[Rooted]

Tpacs,

A great opportunity.

Contact your supplier, get 3 units arranged to be fitted to 3 BRISKODA members with the gear and more than an idea, a technical background.

 

Then you could advertised as 'Seen on Briskoda Forum and tested and debated' and not just some attempt at promoting cheaply / free on the back of a forum that has Members and Advertisers that pay to use the forum.

Edited 17 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Aspman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement

 

Quote

Environment Canada does have a research paper on the subject. In tests done in their laboratory in 2004 they found no improvement in engine efficiency or fuel economy

 

If you're interested I found the paper - https://www.scribd.com/document/228226837/JetStar-ReportERMD-2004-32-v2-Final

 

Quote

The evaluation regime indicated that the use of the JetStar™ hydrogen generator product did not affect combustion efficiency of the test vehicle engine nor did it improve exhaust emission rates or fuel consumption of the vehicle. The combustion efficiency of the engine remained between 99.5% and 99.8% through out the program regardless of the test cycle or whether the JetStar™  product was installed or not.

 

In fairness I did find another paper that said the addition of hydrogen to extreme lean burn engines could improve mpg. But that's because less fuel is being added. CGON isn't reprogramming engine maps and just pumping H2 into an engine with the same amount of fuel doesn't make magic extra energy. you're back to that "old thermodynamics chestnut".

 

Someone tried before in 2008 -https://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/29/read-carefully-before-you-retrofit-your-car-with-hydrogen-fuel-i/

 

https://www.timothysykes.com/blog/why-i-bought-probable-fraud-hydrogen-hybrid-tech-inc-hyhy-think-its-headed-higher/

 

Quote

HFI technology is installed as an add-on to diesel and gasoline engines where it significantly reduces a wide variety of emissions (CO, PM, HC, CO2 and NOx) while simultaneously reducing fuel consumption. HFI units are being used by over 150 fleets of long-haul transport trucks, ambulances, municipal buses and other heavy equipment, earning HFI the dominant position as the world's most widely-used on-board electrolysers. The technology is based on electrolysis and the units split water, on-board the ambulance, then vent the hydrogen and oxygen directly into the air intake of the engine. Adding hydrogen significantly improves the efficiency of combustion, in the engine, with significant financial and environmental benefits...

...About Hydrogen Hybrid Technologies Inc: The OEM licensee of the world's most advanced on-board hydrogen generating system, the Hydrogen Fuel Injection system. This technology is patented, or patent-pending, worldwide and has been actively marketed for over seven years. The system offers unparalleled benefits for virtually any internal combustion engine, with increased horsepower, decreased emissions and a minimum 10% improvement in fuel economy guaranteed. The company's products are marketed through a network of certified installation centres in Canada, the U.S. and around the world

 

Sound familiar, it's new it's great it's H2 into diesel for great gains, yet you've never heard of HHT or HFI?

Yep people went to jail over that as a stock pumping scam. There are plenty of posts from stockmarket traders laughing at it and cashing in on the rise before cutting and running.

 

Want another?

 

Canadian Hydrogen Energy Company (CHEC),

 

another?

 

AHS Hy-Impact

 

If none of these guys could come up with peer reviewed evidence of the efficacy of the system, I very much doubt CGON will either.

Astro-turfing this thread won't make it a reality either either.

 

Edited 17 January, 2018 by Aspman

[CWARD]

@Tpacs it is your personal feedback on a product that you have a vested interest in promoting. I have some rare breed hens that lay golden eggs. They are pure gold eggs too and I'll let you have one for £459. I don't have any evidence that they are pure gold eggs but it's my personal feedback on these hens. Do you see the problem with my feedback and the fact that I stand to profit from the sale of these hens?

Now if you could provide independent test results from a variety of vehicles I would pay more attention. Having the means (PEMS) to test the emissions yourself doesn't really help either as it's not independent and the results can be manipulated, bigger companies have done so i.e. VW to sell cars. 

 

Please provide the test results to back up your claims. I'm willing to be sold on the product but not without the evidence. 

 

[chimaera]

12 minutes ago, Aspman said:

In fairness I did find another paper that said the addition of hydrogen to extreme lean burn engines could improve mpg. But that's because less fuel is being added. CGON isn't reprogramming engine maps and just pumping H2 into an engine with the same amount of fuel doesn't make magic extra energy. you're back to that "old thermodynamics chestnut".

 

I've seen a few papers in that vein too: aside from fuel displacement, they're also running vastly larger quantities of hydrogen into the engine, enough that the hydrogen makes a useful difference to the combustion process.

[chimaera]

Just now, Gibx33 said:

  Why would they invest £500k if it didn't work?

Maybe they've figured out that they can get enough people to fork out £500 a go regardless of whether it works or not.