ezero1 device (CGON)

[CWARD]

54 minutes ago, Gibx33 said:

Aren't the ASA non regulated private company for profits? You can see very very big companies on the ASA website as well..

 

Advertising Standards Authority

 

and how they’re re funded

 

Being amongst other companies who have made false advertising claims isn’t a selling point. 

[Gibx33]

Look like they are false advertising

[CWARD]

I know you’re trying to say something but I’m damned if I know what it is. 

[mac11irl]

@CWARD

Can i pm my credit card details and get one of them hens?

 

[Aspman]

11 hours ago, chimaera said:

The only reliable way to test its capabilities is to have it installed on an engine testbed in a laboratory. In a vehicle application, there are too many variables outside the driver's control to be able to robustly asses any difference it might be making.

 

 

Yup. In an independent lab, ideally peer reviewed.

Any other claims no matter how glowing really just don't count.

The placebo effect is very powerful and it applies to cars too.

 

At the moment the claims are unproven and the provided evidence has been rejected by the ASA.

 

I've found evidence online of multiple previous attempts to sell almost identical technology. None have any scientifically rigorous support and several are associated with frauds.

 

If the franchisee here has coughed half a million quid for equipment and licences then I feel sorry for him and I'm not surprised he's promoting this, he needs to try to get that back however I think this is a effectively a pyramid scheme. Sell the snake oil to the franchise, leave them to sell the snake oil to the customer, meanwhile the supplier cashes in before cutting and running, guys in the penny stocks pump and dump.

 

I'd suggest to Colin that unless proper evidence is publicly forthcoming (such as removal of the ASA advertising ban) the thread should be blocked since the product puts the site members at risk of fraud.

 

You wouldn't allow advertisement of fuel line magnets or magic fuel tablets so why allow this?

[mac11irl]

And hide it from turning up on google searches?

And if you do want it still "readable on here" put a disclaimer post at the very start, outlining the facts - its an unverified product which may cost a purchaser money for no benefit. The discussion here being a debate regarding why it cant work as claimed, and that posters claiming the massive benefits have vested interests..

[CWARD]

2 hours ago, mac11irl said:

@CWARD

Can i pm my credit card details and get one of them hens?

 

 

As a forum member I’ll give you 10% discount. 

 

If you’re also interested I have a very rich uncle in Nigeria. Unfortunately he needs help getting his money out of the country. If you let me have your bank details he can forward the money into your bank account you may have some upfront fees to pay to help facilitate the transfer but he pay it back to you plus a commission once completed. 

[Aspman]

45 minutes ago, mac11irl said:

And hide it from turning up on google searches?

And if you do want it still "readable on here" put a disclaimer post at the very start, outlining the facts - its an unverified product which may cost a purchaser money for no benefit. The discussion here being a debate regarding why it cant work as claimed, and that posters claiming the massive benefits have vested interests..

 

You have a valid argument. It'd be up to Colin if he wants Briski to be the site that appears with this.

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1701168

 

Not a dissimilar argument going on at Pistonheads. Effectively same conclusion.

 

[mac11irl]

@CWARD

Sweet! The commission should offset the upfront fee.

 

Cvv is 996, so you can work away and bill me

 

 

 

[fabdavrav]

On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:05, fabdavrav said:

 

 

I too read the ASA article.....basically its an advertising technicality......CGON effectively did a catch all statement, when they should have done a specific singular statement.....

 

Something I said earlier in this thread:-

When people get their engine remapped, which loads on this forum do (amongst others) many of those companies use "generic" maps for that engine output which may have only been on one test engine & dyno once..& yet they quite happily hand over similar amounts of money & some of these remaps cause premature clutch wear out, make the emissions worse, void warranties, code out DPF's, etc. etc...& how many get their cars on dynos & basically cry when their maps don't produce the claimed power?...again this happens...

 

Again as I have said earlier the basic principal of using hydrogen to crack the fuel into smaller bits is well used in the oil industry....it's called "hydrocracking"...

 

I'll just Quote from wiki as it's nice & easy instead of writing out from text book...

I. Heavy aromatic feedstock is converted into lighter products.....

The primary functions of hydrogen are, thus:

1. preventing the formation of polycyclic aromatic compounds if feedstock has a high paraffinic content,
2. reducing tar formation,
3. reducing impurities,
4. preventing buildup of coke on the catalyst,
5. converting sulfur and nitrogen compounds present in the feedstock to hydrogen sulfide and ammonia, and
6. achieving high cetane number fuel

you could fit a hydrogen tank in the boot & injected the hydrogen into the combustion chamber to achieve a similar result, just that this device is a self contained hydrogen generator which has power input from the engine to operate it.

 

The idea of fitting one to a dirty diesel to clean up the exhaust air is a far more eco/green thing to do instead of ditching an otherwise good vehicle & buying a new eco one considering the extra materials the new car will have consumed from the earth...why rip up the earth to be more eco when you can improve the existing?...

 

 

Something I said earlier in this thread....above...

 

The device ain't a free energy from nothing...it consumes electricity from the battery...which takes from the alternator..which takes mpg from the engine via crankshaft...

 

However it does clean up the combustion process....now this is the "nub" of the "is it snake oil" question in my view...

 

Most people drive without using the full upper rev range of the engine & use standard basic fuels.... it is well known in some engines this causes serious blockages in EGR systems, valves, turbo's, DPF's etc. etc. This then reduces the responsiveness & power output of the engine, & increases the emissions.

 

Many say "Italian tune the car" to solve the problem...but most people want to continue driving as they do & don't want to fork on super diesel or super petrol...This device will return the engine to what the mpg & emissions should be by cleaning up the combustion process. Yes you will never get back all the mpg as the extra electric load on the engine will consume a small amount of mpg..however to get a cleaner & more responsive car with the result/knock on effect of fewer long term EGR & DPF problems is worth the £500 cost IMHO....new DPF is £1,000...just to clean one is in the £400 ball park...

 

I always use the best petrol in my cars (Shell Vpower), change oils etc regularly, keep on top of all service items, run good tyres & when the engine is warmed up I use the full rev range appropriately with mechanical sympathy...therefore I never have any problems with EGR's etc...& my 14yr old Fabia 's last MOT was polluting way less than my new Golf on its MOT...

 

If I had a euro5 or older diesel & used ordinary diesel fuels I would certainly buy one & run just out of plain curiosity.......many people spend that and more on remaps with  unproven (from independent 3rd party) performance & mpg gains, & many of these maps cause clutch, turbo, etc problems (& blown engines & wrecked DSG's) & void your warranties...& yet there is not the same hoo-ha over these as this device has caused....

Edited 19 January, 2018 by fabdavrav

[fabdavrav]

Strange duplicate post of part of above post for some reason...so edited out, but can't delete this whole post?

Edited 18 January, 2018 by fabdavrav

[chimaera]

12 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

However it does clean up the combustion process....now this is the "nub" of the "is it snake oil" question in my view...

 

Hydrogen can do this under certain circumstances. However the quantites of hydrogen needed to do this are substantially higher than the ezero device (and others of that ilk) can deliver. You can't assume that an effect that happens at one scale will happen at a different scale. It's like the old adage "The dose makes the poison": something that works at one level can be useless or harmful at another.

[Aspman]

If it puts in lots of hydrogen you might have to think about hydrogen embrittlement as well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

 

Previous versions of similar products actually claimed it was a the cracked oxygen that was aiding combustion. That might have been true but that only works when the O2 isn't being generated by work done my the same closed system (engine). So NOS works (energy put in to create the NOS outside the closed system).

 

If you put a tank of pure 02 and tuned your engine to use it you probably would see an improvement in efficiency.

If you just tipped in O2 you'd burn lean and damage the engine.

 

H2 needs Oxygen to burn to release energy. Either it's recombining with the O2 liberated during cracking (in which case energy is still lost, remember you put energy in to crack H2 you don't get that all back when you burn it), or the H2 is going to scavenge O2 from the air in which case the diesel is going to burn more poorly.

You can tune an engine to burn lots of H2 along with diesel for efficiency but it has to be tuned and that is still in the lab.

 

Now H2 will react with oil. This is a well known process called hydrogenation. If you pass H2 through oil you'll make diesel margarine. I'm not sure how that helps your diesel car go further though unless it's sliding on it down hill.

[fabdavrav]

8 minutes ago, Aspman said:

If it puts in lots of hydrogen you might have to think about hydrogen embrittlement as well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

 

 

 

I wouldn't be so worried about that......as that mainly occurs in the manufacturing process, pickling, electroplating, & arc welding....not so much of a problem in introducing into the combustion process of an ICE engine...as air contains hydrogen....

 

Also the amounts used are small...not like its a 50% or greater saturation...

[Breezy_Pete]

Not a lot of hydrogen in air.

[Chris]

Going off topic with this one. 

 

Please let's all get along and stick to the thread topic. 

 

Thanks

 

Edit- Thread tidied.

Edited 18 January, 2018 by Chris
Thread tidied up

[Rustynuts]

6 hours ago, Aspman said:

You wouldn't allow advertisement of fuel line magnets or magic fuel tablets so why allow this?

 

I'm still removing these damned magnetic fuel straighteners from my customers oil lines, at least a dozen a year. Apparently there's a secondary line from solar panel installation companies selling these to unsuspecting customers, as they all seem to have solar panels been fitted in the past few years.

[mac11irl]

4 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

 

I'm still removing these damned magnetic fuel straighteners from my customers oil lines, at least a dozen a year. Apparently there's a secondary line from solar panel installation companies selling these to unsuspecting customers, as they all seem to have solar panels been fitted in the past few years.

Pardon my ignorance, but what are they meant to do to an oil burner?

[Rustynuts]

22 minutes ago, mac11irl said:

Pardon my ignorance, but what are they meant to do to an oil burner?

I have no idea. Other than the usual "Straightening out the molecules so they all line up the correct way for better combustion", or some other such misinformation, I can't really understand it myself. Certainly makes no difference removing them.

[mac11irl]

I just googled to see if that stobart trial had gone anywhere and this thread was the 3rd search result.

I really think @ColinD may need to "hide" this one for a while?

 

Edit

On second thoughts, maybe leaving it visible so anyone who does google the concept hopefully reads this and sees where the pitfalls are with it at the moment? Is it actually more of a public service to leave it as is?  Just monitoring the posts and poster backgrounds/links?

My suggestion of a disclaimer would be really useful though...

Edited 18 January, 2018 by mac11irl
I had a moment of public benefit thinking

[ColinD]

If the topic can be kept to the *facts*; where is my minion laughing emoji pack, then it's ok to keep it in the public domain. Yes in part I see a discussion and nit pick a value add thing for the internet at large.

 

Where it gets tricky is mud slinging, personal, and non factual stuff, or a friend of a friend said...basically if you write something that can't stand up in court then thats where I have to get the moderation stick out... but ultimately if you can stand in court and say it as you've typed it, it's ok by me, unless of course I read every post and approve every post. Which we don't can't do.

 

I am wondering of all that can be said has been said though. MY phone is knackered and this topic is sending it to sleep a good two hours earlier each day now  I have too many notifications on the go.

 

Other news, I've cleaned up a member account on his request and mutual agreement, as in I'm happy too, mostly as I've got as many reply notices to this topic as spam complaints to wade through... why people subscribe to topics then mark each and every notification as spam annoys the heck out of me...

 

A disclaimer to the opening post, if I knew what to write without inheriting liability I might.

 

Even if we pull the topic now it's still out there in scraping engine/sites. I've not reviewed every post, some have been removed. Others might well do as we catch up. 

 

 

[burntcrisps2]

Quick update on my fitted cgon unit to Ford Focus 1.8tdci

Unit was fitted at 118,874 miles.

Fuel tank filled at 118,756 miles.

So 118 miles without hydrogen fuel cell.

Car normally averages around 50mpg or less, with mixed driving and usually does around 560miles on a tank and at best has done 600+miles when driven carefully and on a regular run to Rugby and back doing a steady 45 to 50mph.

 

Did a long motorway run at a steady 70mph and tank is now half empty.

Usually trip computer shows at best 300miles left and the same driven on trip/odo.

Currently its showing some 375miles left and trip computer is saying 57.6mpg, which is some 5mpg better than normal.

Considering 118miles were done before fitment, I am expecting some good numbers for this tank, considering some ~21% was used already.

Guess I should have filled when cgon fitted, but a creature of habit and run full to near empty.

Will post full info when I have it, but I am not doing the 35K miles a year that I did for most of my working career.

Road Trip (ios app) log file export to Excel showing most of mpg. history for those naysayers on this forum.

 

[Rustynuts]

So after all these years, all the money spent on emissions reduction systems and attempts to squeeze every last drop of energy out of the last drop of fuel, all the manufacturers needed to do was fit a small device to inject a miniscule amount of special hydrogen into the air intake and connect a wire to the maf sensor?

 

Yeah right. 

[Rooted]

From what i see there was good fuel economy 3,000 miles back and 10,000 miles back.

Different days, different trips, different weather, tail wind there, tail wind back, empty car, car serviced or not, new air filter in, who knows.

[tubbyleigh]

Well I found that interesting burntcrisps. I’ve seen the positive impact on emissions but have no way of checking mpg. Despite the negative feed back you are getting, I look forward to seeing what you get at the end of this tank of fuel and the next one. Please share!