ezero1 device (CGON)

[dowding]

anyone heard anything about this device?

 

http://www.cgon.co.uk/

 

Its basically a hydrogen fuel cell that forces hydrogen into the intake apparently reducing emissions and fuel usage by 25%!!!!

 

I call bull on the whole thing

 

any views on this?

Edited 3 September, 2017 by Gizmo
merged

[FlyingGecko]

Well, the science looks OK, but for the stated costs - and the annual service price isn't shown - I could get around 8000 miles worth of petrol.

 

So, it begs the perennial question - why haven't the manufacturers picked up on this, for its emission control ability at the very least?

[mac11irl]

I will admit to having bought the ebook on running your car on water...

the energy requirement to split the water makes it pointless..

this, i imagine is along a similar line of snake oil...

[Llanigraham]

Snake Oil!!

[Breezy_Pete]

Have you discussed advertising rates with the site owner, @ColinD?

 

Edited 18 April, 2017 by Wino

[McDermott]

My comment has gone?

[john999boy]

54 minutes ago, McDermott said:

My comment has gone?

 

I'll PM you.

[mac11irl]

On 18/04/2017 at 16:29, Wino said:

Have you discussed advertising rates with the site owner, @ColinD?

 

 

*sniif, sniff.. do i smell left over spam??

[Breezy_Pete]

15 minutes ago, mac11irl said:

 

*sniif, sniff.. do i smell left over spam??

Yeah, kind fella who's installed one of these systems on his car was telling us how he's now saving the planet, saving money, yada yada. Oh and he also happens to be a distributor for them. 

One of 'those' first posts.

[edwards]

£18 for a litre of some 'special' water. Yearly services of something with no moving parts at an undisclosed price.Yeah, that sounds reasonable for what appears to be a low output electrolytic  cell. Adding hydrogen makes other fuel burn 'more completely'? Really? 

 

This smacks of a pyramid scheme at best, con at worst.

[Breezy_Pete]

No-one ever got poor by underestimating the intelligence of the general public...

[Bertie90]

Has anyone one tried this CGON Hydrogen technology yet?

 

What's everyone's opinion about this?

 

Allegedly it improves the burn of the fuel with less soot recirculating in the system. Here's a link to the website and a Youtube video. I've seen it in the news recently.

 

https://www.cgon.co.uk/

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S036031991401996X?fref=gc&dti=955027937948541

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 September, 2017 by Bertie90

[fabdavrav]

Saw this in a car mag, & noted a few articles about it.

 

UK company, tech is proven, engineer ex RN submariner, & very simple, & makes adblue etc. redundant.. also makes the scrappage scheme useless, as this can be retro fitted to cars, vans, trucks, busses, petrol or diesel...

 

https://www.cgon.co.uk/Product

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4812942/Brian-Sheard-invents-CGON-cut-motorists-fuel-bills.html

 

£495ish complete inc fitting to car...far better to do this to lower emissions than scrap car because only Euro5 & not Euro6.

 

If I had my old petrol AUB Fabia I would fit....

 

Downside a small top up of 250ml electrolyte liquid every 6,000miles..cost of 1lt is £7....oooo whoppie big worries there...(sarcastic face)

 

This will greatly reduce actual real world emissions ...forget stupid lab rolling road tests..

[chimaera]

These things have been debunked so many times by now. Complete snake-oil. If it was that simple/cheap the manufacturers would have been all over it by now.

[fabdavrav]

1 hour ago, chimaera said:

These things have been debunked so many times by now. Complete snake-oil. If it was that simple/cheap the manufacturers would have been all over it by now.

 

Others maybe, but this is real..well tested over the past several years

 

oh & Morgan Cars are using it on their Ford & BMW engines & offering it as retro fit option also....

 

Quote:-

 

The product has been successfully laboratory tested by the approved Government testing facility Millbrook; also in real road conditions by leading independent testing providers Emissions Analytics, establishing emission reducing capabilities for all emissions including the extremely hard to reduce ultra-fine particles by up to 80%; these life-threatening particles have previously evaded all reduction attempts.

 

https://www.gasworld.com/reduce-emissions-with-the-cgon-ezero1/2013341.article

 

so the real deal...big manufactures want to sell you a complete new car...not a nice £500 ad on which improves your old car...buy a new full car which is more "green" than your old dirty car....that's their mantra...

Edited 2 September, 2017 by fabdavrav

[chimaera]

Hydrogen producers have been around for decades by now as "the one true solution" for emissions and economy and have been shown up in independent tests to be nonsense. It's telling that I can't find an independent review of this device anywhere: everything I've found is written by CGON or using their press material as a source.

 

Here's some good reading on the topic: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3499/4276846/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3983/4310717/

[Ryeman]

Maybe it's been certified by TUV .........hmmm?.

[Breezy_Pete]

Lets do some maths...

 

250ml of electrolyte every 6000 miles, approx. they say,  250/6000 = 0.0417 ml/mile

1ml ~ 1g for water, so we're electrolysing about 0.04g/mile

Let's say we're doing that mile at a steady 60mph for the sake of easy numbers, 1 mile = 1 minute

So that's 0.04g of electrolyte used per minute.

Hydrogen is only one ninth of the weight of water so we need to divide by 9 to get mass of hydrogen per minute 0..04/9 = 0.0044g/minute

Let's divide that by 60 to get g/sec... 0.000074 grams per second

 

I'm no expert on air flow rates into engines (no MAF on either of our cars), but I think it might be in the 10-50 grams/sec area for a typical car cruising at 60mph?

Let's split the difference and call it 30. [Very happy to have someone give me better estimates for this btw]

 

So the hydrogen produced by the CGON represents (0.000074/30) x 100 = 0.00025% of the intake charge, by mass; a proportion of a little over 2 millionths. Now I'm no expert at chemistry/combustion/thermodynamics either, but for this proportion of hydrogen to see any measureable effects at all on the engine, I think you'd need some outstandingly sensitive, low noise equipment, no?

Edited 3 September, 2017 by Wino

[Ryeman]

The answer always comes back to a conspiracy by BIG OIL.

[Breezy_Pete]

 

Seriously?

[Ryeman]

3 minutes ago, Wino said:

 

Seriously?

According to Trump voters I suspect.

[fabdavrav]

17 hours ago, chimaera said:

Hydrogen producers have been around for decades by now as "the one true solution" for emissions and economy and have been shown up in independent tests to be nonsense. It's telling that I can't find an independent review of this device anywhere: everything I've found is written by CGON or using their press material as a source.

 

Here's some good reading on the topic: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3499/4276846/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3983/4310717/

 

16 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Maybe it's been certified by TUV .........hmmm?.

 

To be sold in UK TUV not needed as German & a spoiler can be TUV approved...

 

6 hours ago, Wino said:

Lets do some maths...

 

250ml of electrolyte every 6000 miles, approx. they say,  250/6000 = 0.0417 ml/mile

1ml ~ 1g for water, so we're electrolysing about 0.04g/mile

Let's say we're doing that mile at a steady 60mph for the sake of easy numbers, 1 mile = 1 minute

So that's 0.04g of electrolyte used per minute.

Hydrogen is only one ninth of the weight of water so we need to divide by 9 to get mass of hydrogen per minute 0..04/9 = 0.0044g/minute

Let's divide that by 60 to get g/sec... 0.000074 grams per second

 

I'm no expert on air flow rates into engines (no MAF on either of our cars), but I think it might be in the 10-50 grams/sec area for a typical car cruising at 60mph?

Let's split the difference and call it 30. [Very happy to have someone give me better estimates for this btw]

 

So the hydrogen produced by the CGON represents (0.000074/30) x 100 = 0.00025% of the intake charge, by mass; a proportion of a little over 2 millionths. Now I'm no expert at chemistry/combustion/thermodynamics either, but for this proportion of hydrogen to see any measureable effects at all on the engine, I think you'd need some outstandingly sensitive, low noise equipment, no?

 

Its Ortho Hydrogen which is 75% ortho & 25% para...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_isomers_of_hydrogen

 

4 hours ago, Ryeman said:

The answer always comes back to a conspiracy by BIG OIL.

I did not mention BIG OIL...car manufactures yes...like a lot of the Euro brands decided to reduce the size of the adblue tanks on cars when some decided to fit bigger tanks, they then reduced the size to match the other manufactures...

 

 

 

If you want to argue that you think its snake oil go argue with the people who have tested the device "Emissions Analytics"...who I suspect have way more knowledge & equipment than you keyboard warriors...

 

http://emissionsanalytics.com/

 

They publish the EQUA index , do testing, equipment etc. etc.

[burntcrisps2]

Love the fact that people just denounce everything as snake oil without doing some basic research online, google throws up loads of interesting links and facts.

 

https://www.exeterchamber.co.uk/blog/2016/07/21/clean-air-technology-used-in-rockets-and-submarines-promises-greener-and-cheaper-motoring

https://www.whitesquaretech.com/latestnews?category=Evans Transport

https://www.gasworld.com/reduce-emissions-with-the-cgon-ezero1/2013341.article

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2016/01/28/cgon-fuel-additive-claims-to-reduce-emissions-by-80

 

Its been developed over 8 years, been known about in the fleet marketplace for at least 2 years, been tested in the fleet environment (at least 18months) for millions of miles by some small "unheard" of transport company called Stobart and proved upto 50% reduction in adblue and something like 5 to 7% better fuel economy. As with any new product its new and there will be little reviews, but the big boys are already well into this and fleets across the country are testing with excellent results which is why they wont be making big noises about it. Its been independantly tested at Millbrook and Bruntingthorpe, some pretty important test and validation facilities. This is about to take off and expect to see ads for it in October 2017 and not just in the UK. Its about to take off in USA, Canada and Australia.

 

Its not just another hydrogen fuel cell, its actually an ortho hydrogen fuel cell.

 

I happened to come across this via a throw away comment in a Sunday Times column today regarding a high mileage Passat and the debate on replace with new or keep.

After delving deeper I am planning on getting this fitted to our diesel Yeti ( EA189 emissions mod done) as the ROI is a mere 10months.

Would love to be able to get an EV version of the Yeti, like this http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/projects/electric-yeti-4x4/ , but thats mega money and not even available, so this ezero1 product is a steal at the price.

This is undoubtedly the answer for all those motorists who do not have the money to buy a new or newer car and want to reduce their emissions and gain some better mpg also, which is the majority of private motorists with potentially higher polluting vehicles, whether diesel or petrol. Rather than a scrappage scheme or new car incentives as they ought to be called, the government would be better off promoting this type of technology with a discount or fixed money off.

There are other solutions too, not just this, but Continental with the new 48V systems that are about to become the norm. Again this is retrofittable to older vehicles.

See this... http://www.caradvice.com.au/564190/worlds-first-48-volt-mild-hybrid-system-in-production/

and this.. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/100060/super-diesel-tech-to-cut-emissions-by-60-per-cent

https://www.continental-corporation.com/en/press/press-releases/2017-04-25-super-clean-diesel-64756

 

This cgon technology fits to all petrol, diesel and lpg vehicles which means buses, vans, lorries, plant machines all of which pollute more than cars do.

In London more NOx is produced by gas central heting than cars, but that is not being witch hunted as diesel and petrol cars are by the so called greenies.

[fabdavrav]

21 minutes ago, burntcrisps2 said:

HUGE POST of INFO.

 

Thanks for additional links from the fleet side & couldn't find them quick enough as looking at my photos from Motormania in Grantown-on-Spey today...

 

Haters be haters

[Breezy_Pete]

What an unusual first post; I wonder who burntcrisps2 works for...