The battery as the new frontier

[Ryeman]

http://www.cemag.us/news/2016/04/surprising-discovery-paves-way-better-batteries?et_cid=5242342&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=5242342&et_rid=916553762&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fnews%2f2016%2f04%2fsurprising-discovery-paves-way-better-batteries%3fet_cid%3d5242342%26et_rid%3d%25%25subscriberid%25%25%26type%3dcta

[Aspman]

Battery and charging tech is a real hot subject right now.

 

There seem to be a lot of new developments working their way out of the lab so I'd expect there to be some significant jumps in the next 10yr.

[Ryeman]

Battery and charging tech is a real hot subject right now.

 

There seem to be a lot of new developments working their way out of the lab so I'd expect there to be some significant jumps in the next 10yr.

Certainly is.

I'm hoping all Graphene 's promise bears fruit before I'm reduced to carbon.

[Breezy_Pete]

Certainly is.

I'm hoping all Graphene 's promise bears fruit before I'm reduced to carbon.

The Chemist in me wonders if that shouldn't read "before I'm oxidised to carbon dioxide"?

 

Interesting article about the zinc batteries though, thanks.  Can't believe they referred to doing a "battery of tests" without noting the pun.

[cheezemonkhai]

The Chemist in me wonders if that shouldn't read "before I'm oxidised to carbon dioxide"?

 

Interesting article about the zinc batteries though, thanks.  Can't believe they referred to doing a "battery of tests" without noting the pun.

 

Maybe your loved one can fuel your next car, after all they say they can make a diamond out of them?

[Kandy]

http://www.cemag.us/news/2016/04/surprising-discovery-paves-way-better-batteries?et_cid=5242342&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=5242342&et_rid=916553762&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fnews%2f2016%2f04%2fsurprising-discovery-paves-way-better-batteries%3fet_cid%3d5242342%26et_rid%3d%25%25subscriberid%25%25%26type%3dcta

 

I hate to burst your bubble but there are loads of battery break through research papers, they are essentially marketing prospectuses for research funds. They never come to fruition. There is no game changer battery technology, it's just the wrong technology for energy storage (for cars & grid). It's like cold fusion and perpetual motion and anti-gravity, never quite arrives!

Edited 21 April, 2016 by Kandy

[gadgetman]

Hydrogen will be the leap forward.

Infrastructure, battery technology, and insufficient lithium reserves mean battery power will never become mainstream

[Ryeman]

The end of the reciprocating car engine.

[Ryeman]

Using coal -

http://www.cemag.us/news/2016/04/electronics-could-be-made-coal?et_cid=5244518&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=5244518&et_rid=916553762&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fnews%2f2016%2f04%2felectronics-could-be-made-coal%3fet_cid%3d5244518%26et_rid%3d%25%25subscriberid%25%25%26type%3dcta

[Rooted]

Volkswagen are using their media people to fill the press with what they are doing to be green and all these Electric Vehicles they are going to be Manufacturing and selling sometime in the future.

(Also telling all about their greener carbon fuel burners hybrids that have electric motors.)

Now going 500cc per 3 cylinder 1.5 TSI,  a bit like BMW did already just being lead as usual.)

Just any old story on cars coming sometime or quick updates of the models they have now.

Actual new lighter cars made with modern materials from VW like those BMW have might be the way to go

if VW have anything ready for launching this year or next..

 

Proof will be in the pudding once they sort out ongoing issues with ones they have already sold, 

and how soon their new vehicles are on sale.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35920615

 

http://theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/28/vw-and-shell-try-to-block-eu-push-for-cleaner-cars

VW have enough contacts in the media to totally refute this article.

Edited 1 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[lol-lol]

Little known in the UK but use of LMP batteries (and supercapicitors with IC engines) has been adopted by some cities ie Paris with their 4000 Blu Solution cars and this is being somewhat slowly rolled out in London this year and I think we are due to get one to run around Heathrow in a few weeks time.

 

Certainly a lot of interest in this with this collaberation with Nissan-Renault and Bollore and a 30 Kw/hr battery and 155 mile range and rapid 47 kw/hr charge sounds a good step forward.

 

Any body seen the film "The Martian", great what he does to get his electric vehicle to go the extra miles?

 

I think a hybrid with a little 20 Kw, single cylinder petrol engine is needed to complement the electric side, 15 litre fuel tank should do it, 100 mpg plus, get a Moto3 engine in there for some fun. 

[Rooted]

Volkswagen speaks a good game.

So they know what they need to do.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-ev-could-be-cheaper-equivalent-golf

[lol-lol]

Volkswagen speaks a good game.

So they know what they need to do.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-ev-could-be-cheaper-equivalent-golf

 

Sounds a bit like Cameron.

 

You have to be impressed by the public speaking but the living reality is lies and short-comings.

 

I can see a job a VW-VAG for him when he retires in 40 days of 4 years time.

 

I am looking forward to our electric cars at work ie the Bollore electric ones and hope to get a drive and the Zoe for about £8k, ex-demo with next to no miles also sounds a bargain too and more charging points, including the Dacia-Renault dealers also having as well as the supermarkets, plus getting a Chamelon charger for home installed by British Gas (?) fitted.  Very tempting. 

Edited 6 May, 2016 by lol-lol

[logiclee]

 

Now going 500cc per 3 cylinder 1.5 TSI,  a bit like BMW did already just being lead as usual.)

 

 

The 1.5TSi is a 4 cylinder and the first mainstream engine to use VNT turbo and the miller cycle.

 

The 1.0 using the same tech will be a 3 cylinder.

 

So not using 500cc per cylinder same as BMW and JAG

 

Lee

Edited 7 May, 2016 by logiclee

[Rooted]

Doh, my bad.

VW will be going electric Supercharger will they not or as they call them electric turbos / compressors?

[lol-lol]

The 1.5TSi is a 4 cylinder and the first mainstream engine to use VNT turbo and the miller cycle.

 

The 1.0 using the same tech will be a 3 cylinder.

 

So not using 500cc per cylinder same as BMW and JAG

 

Lee

 

Didn't Fiat do this in 1991 (according to Honeywell).?

1991: Fiat puts a VNT™ turbo in the Croma, matching it to a 1.9L direct injection diesel engine.

https://turbo.honeywell.com/why-choose-honeywell/industry-firsts/?popup=print

 

I thought I had them in my 1.9 PD engines of a decade ago??

 

The Miller cycle sounds a fairly minor tweak to the Otto cycle regarding the control of the intake valve.  I hope the 3 cylinder will be good and perhaps there will be a 2 cylinder at some time as this appears to be the future matching these internal combustion engines with electric tech.  Loved my Fabia VRS which I thought was pretty clever, powerful, fuel efficient.  Since then VAG have lost there way and other manufacturers have surged ahead, ie Ford, GM, Peugeot, Renault-Nissans 3 cylinder offerings whilst VAG have been slow to roll out their 3 cylinders especially to brand like Skoda.  I know they have a huge focus on sorting out the massive mess of the 11M illegal diesel engines and this looks likely to tie them up for another year or two in terms of R&D and finances.

 

Back to batteries I am amazed at the number of companies, like hotels and retail outlets as well as the car dealerships who are installing charging points are quite a rate.  

Edited 7 May, 2016 by lol-lol

[logiclee]

VNT is common on diesel but not on petrol. Only Porsche and a few other specialised engines have used it.

The 1.5TSi will be the first mainstream turbo petrol to use it which should give higher torque across the rev range.

Reports suggest 175PS and 300NM from 1300rpm

VNT allows use of the miller cycle which supposedly gives a 10% economy improvement over the 1.4 tsi

Edited 7 May, 2016 by logiclee

[Ryeman]

Our 308 Peugeot 1.2 is amazing in terms of power, torque and fuel efficiency

Just as long as it keeps going reliably that is ???? (ten years?)

[Ryeman]

Actually this thread should read 'The Electric Motor...........' as fuel cell tech seems to be at the production stage.

[Ryeman]

Hydrogen will be the leap forward.

Infrastructure, battery technology, and insufficient lithium reserves mean battery power will never become mainstream

I would have thought battery 'infrastructure' was less of an issue than that for hydrogen?

I've read that lithium can be substituted with graphite and is easily recycled and that supply is no longer an issue

Then again

http://investorintel.com/technology-metals-intel/lithium-ion-batteries-three-critical-mineral-constraints/

[lol-lol]

I would have thought battery 'infrastructure' was less of an issue than that for hydrogen?

I've read that lithium can be substituted with graphite and is easily recycled and that supply is no longer an issue

Then again

http://investorintel.com/technology-metals-intel/lithium-ion-batteries-three-critical-mineral-constraints/

 

Indeed Graphine batteries look likely to replace Lithium over the next year or two and offer Kw/Hr capacities and discharge rates up to 5 times Lithium-ion.

 

Lithium has other uses we can keep it for ..........

 

 

[gadgetman]

I would have thought battery 'infrastructure' was less of an issue than that for hydrogen?

I've read that lithium can be substituted with graphite and is easily recycled and that supply is no longer an issue

Then again

http://investorintel.com/technology-metals-intel/lithium-ion-batteries-three-critical-mineral-constraints/

You also need the power cabling to charge all these electric vehicles as well as powerstations.

Most residential areas are already at capacity, and would need bigger cabling to feed every house with a dedicated 16A or 32a charging station.

[lol-lol]

You also need the power cabling to charge all these electric vehicles as well as powerstations.

Most residential areas are already at capacity, and would need bigger cabling to feed every house with a dedicated 16A or 32a charging station.

 

A 7 Kw (30A) charging point is only the same power throughput as a shower and many houses are reducing their power consumption due to changes to low energy lighting and less power needed for a warming climate we seem to be experiencing.

 

Clearly there is an issue with under investment in Power generation over the last few years though some of the nuclear stations have been extended in their operation life span and the amount of energy supplied from wind is steadily climbing a percent of so of the overall requirement each year though we do need more hydro pump storage like Dinorwig and the dithering current government has been slow even to support the 100 MW new hydro station at Llanberis as well as the Swansea bay tidal project which should be online in a couple of years but as the economy has been so slow to recover from the 2008 world crash and the low price of oil these have been slow to progress but with oil climbing now hopefully we will see them get new impetus.

 

Lots of things can be done, such as preference trips, timed charging of charing the cars ie on Economy 7 power using nuclear base load power between midnight and 4 AM using cheaper and available power. 

[logiclee]

A 7 Kw (30A) charging point is only the same power throughput as a shower and many houses are reducing their power consumption due to changes to low energy lighting and less power needed for a warming climate we seem to be experiencing.

 

Clearly there is an issue with under investment in Power generation over the last few years though some of the nuclear stations have been extended in their operation life span and the amount of energy supplied from wind is steadily climbing a percent of so of the overall requirement each year though we do need more hydro pump storage like Dinorwig and the dithering current government has been slow even to support the 100 MW new hydro station at Llanberis as well as the Swansea bay tidal project which should be online in a couple of years but as the economy has been so slow to recover from the 2008 world crash and the low price of oil these have been slow to progress but with oil climbing now hopefully we will see them get new impetus.

 

Lots of things can be done, such as preference trips, timed charging of charing the cars ie on Economy 7 power using nuclear base load power between midnight and 4 AM using cheaper and available power. 

 

 

This is an area I'm actively involved in and studies have already been carried out. The problem is not with UK maximum demand from power stations. Maximum demand is now actually higher at night due to the amount of solar PV in the daytime.

 

The UK electrical network is based on diversity. Most street infrastructure was installed many decades ago. Fast chargers range from 7kW to 16.5kW and while an electric shower may be 10.5kW it's usually on for a few minutes and the chance of many people on the street showering at the same time is minimal, that's diversity for you. On the other hand when everyone on the street has an electric vehicle and comes home from work on an evening and puts their car on charge for hours then diversity goes out of the window, You need local street infrastructure that will take sustained high load, we don't currently have that.

So we are looking at street cabling, LV distribution and in most cases upgraded HV/LV transformers and HV boards.

 

Town and city networks are already experiencing problems with increased failures, this is due to harmonics being put on the system due to the increased use of LED and compact flo lighting as well as switchmode chargers. Saves money for the consumer but plays havoc on distribution networks.

 

Lee

Edited 8 May, 2016 by logiclee

[Ryeman]

There's no issue about supply in Victoria as a result of the rapid spread of PV feedin.....we've got more than enough with the endless march to ever lower consumption I would have thought.

One storage starts and the inevitable lowering of the storage battery costs the upgrading should naturally follow.......(?)

We have an ever decreasing consumption of auto lpg and I'm wondering if that current infrastructure can be converted to hydrogen storage at servos.

Either way the ever more complex reciprocating engine looks to be going up it's own exhaust pipe in search of cleaner emissions.